The Gaming Den

Played both and never had this problem. I suggest giving both a read and taking your own conclusions. And, if needed, discussing it out on their respective threads.,;)

Nice wording.

Okay, I'm gonna try to break this down slowly for you Guts. Everyone here gets that Shadowrun is needlessly complex and that some of its rules are literally unplayable. We have entire threads dedicated to that observation. The bit people are disagreeing with is the conclusion you're drawing from th...

Constant threat of violence is fine. A combat encounter that takes 2 hours long (even 1 hour!) has nothing to do with heists genre.

That's the point.

I'm glad we agree Shadowrun is full of problems.

Edit: About PbtA I'm 100% sure you're talking out of your ass and never actually played any of them. So whatever.

Again: whatever. Analyze Shadowrun in isolation if you will. My point remains. Edit: Heh, you seem to have agreed with me in another thread: honestly, getting Shadowrun into a less second by second accounting of the physics engine and more into abstract action resolution is a great idea. That is the...

Voss, maybe it deserves it's own topic, but, long-story short, Shadowrun is simply too cluttered and incoherent for it's own sake. It aims at a group doing criminal heists while conflating physical, virtual, astral and vehicular action. In practice, though, it doesn't pull if off, because each sub-...

Sorry, but are you saying Shadowrun is the same game as Blades in the Dark? I must respectfully disagree. Poke at any corner of Blades in the Dark ruleset and it stands. Mix Shadowrun's Combat, Matrix and Rigging rules and it crumbles the game to a halt. O just run Combat.. with a dozen opponents, a...

Whatever, just forget about those games then. Contrast Shadowrun with Blades in the Dark. Or just analyse it in isolation. The point stands: it's a slow and convoluted ruleset, that does not do what it says on the tin. It's authors "didn't do the math". My humble opinion, of course, after ...

Have you actually read or played The Sprawl? Because nothing of what you say shows up in the book, nor in my playing experience. But if PbtA offends you for some reason, no prob, compare Shadowrun to Blades in the Dark . Or just analyze Shadowrun in isolation, really. The point stands regardless. :m...

Even assuming it's resolution is as transparent as any other, you would still have the dysfunctional complexity of the whole Shadowrun system, which is a much more grave point, imo.

Voss, maybe it deserves it's own topic, but, long-story short, Shadowrun is simply too cluttered and incoherent for it's own sake. It aims at a group doing criminal heists while conflating physical, virtual, astral and vehicular action. In practice, though, it doesn't pull if off, because each sub-s...

I think we are seeing more and more games doing the "math" right, or, accomplishing what it says on the tin with coherence. This gets clear if we compare modern games like Blades in the Dark or The Sprawl to any edition of Shadowrun, for example.

Chamomile wrote:Check again.

Interesting info, thanks for the link!

Can someone give a reason for this, why the designers of games cannot seem to master or fix what looks like pretty simple to recognize and even correct math problems? Because math doesn't sell games that are premised on story-telling. Themes and ideas are what makes an RPG sell, not the math itself...

Played it this weekend. Had a blast. Don't want ever go back to Shadowrun rules again. Only point of contention was Intel . Half the group thinks it should be used as wildly as the player wish, while other half think it should be more ground (eg: If you got it from a street kid, you can't use it for...

The Technomancer:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EotBz ... X_dzm6uGUG

Looks neat, though I don't know the archetype well enough to judge.

I've become more dissatisfied with the game "planning" phase. The book suggest the group just pick a plan and detail and roll the Engagement Roll. But in practice I've found these too vague and unsatisfying, specially the Engagement roll. Anyone played it/read it, and have impressions abou...

Looking again at this Carouse, yeah, it looks a poor move. The suggested miss outcome (6-) feels too similar to the weak hit (7-9), meaning except if you get a 10+ you will get screwed. Its pretty peripheral though, so its easy to ignore. Omegonthesane, what do you think of the Sprawl? Have you read...

Lol yeah, it seems PbtA games are not for you then as that kind of conditional is present in all them.

Someone at another forum shared this Shadowrun fanmade hack. Looks well made. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByF9qkt14FlUeHBRTTFCZGxZTVE/view Aryxbez, sorry I'm not sure I got your point. I see FrankTrollman found problems in Bear World, some of which I agree with (the vagueness and potential GM t...

Yeah, I agree the examples in the book are bad. And the author writing seem to push for an edgy style that ends up making it didactically poor. I only got it after reading other hacks, and then coming back to Apocalypse World and reading it again. I recommend taking a look at Dungeon World. I don't ...

We had a mini-campaign of Bear World and it was fine. The thing you must keep in mind is that the MC Agenda and Principles must be followed, otherwise what you described may happen. What bothered us a bit was the prevalence of the Act Under Fire move, which taxes the MC for improvising complications...

"Para-bear" is the perfect name for the Sprawl. (if I got the joke right, that is )

For some folks, that's exactly what's been missing from shadowrun.