How so? There was no war happening, only a single guy attacking others who peacefully interacted. A no-law zone, ok. But a warzone requires a war. There was no war.
Edit:
Previn wrote:If he was killing random people in a non-PvP zone, then I could see the analogy to calling the cops and being a sociopath.
He can't kill people in a non-pvp zone. Thats the whole point.
Last edited by Murtak on Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
How so? There was no war happening, only a single guy attacking others who peacefully interacted. A no-law zone, ok. But a warzone requires a war. There was no war.
I guess that depends on how you look at it. In the context of the game world, there is a war going on and it is only the PCs that elect not to fight in it. Sort of like how not every American is stationed in, or supportive of, the Iraq war.
From an outsider's (to CoH/V) perspective on the game itself, it sounds like there's entirely too much collusion between the two, supposedly diametrically opposed, factions. How did the entire community come to the collective agreement that they weren't going to wreck each other's shit in the PvP zone? I'm guessing there's no language barrier or auto-flagging in CoH/V like there is in WoW. What about the people that are legitimately there to do PvP? Are they expected to battle around the love-in? Are you a bad person if, in the course of an actual battle, you trigger one of those pillboxes and inadvertently blast the farmers?
I'm not the most avid PvPer I know, but there's a difference between minding your own business in Thunder Bluff and trying to have a cross-faction picnic in Alterac Valley.
PvP isn't an integral component of CoH/V - the vast majority of the game is devoted to PvE play, and the PvP rewards are chump change. Really, PvP is a place where you show off all the cool stuff you learned/earned playing PvE.
If there was something to be gained in PvP then maybe folks would take it more serious, but they don't.
violence in the media wrote:In the context of the game world, there is a war going on and it is only the PCs that elect not to fight in it.
I don't really care about the context of the world. As long as I enter the zone and all I see are people chatting and trading I am not going to label it a war zone. Now, I have never played CoH myself, so I can't really say how much, if any, PvP happens in that game. But if there isn't any that research guy is simply a virtual mass murderer, kept alive by game mechanics, just like his victims.
There's a difference in going around hunting the players who aren't your level, aren't engaged with you, and killing them vs killing the players that are engaged in hunting you down.
The guy was a dick. People didn't like him because he was a dick. If you eat with your hands and belch and chew with your mouth open at the dinner table, people aren't going to want to sit with you. Even if you're a more efficient eating machine because of it.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
mean_liar wrote:PvP isn't an integral component of CoH/V - the vast majority of the game is devoted to PvE play, and the PvP rewards are chump change. Really, PvP is a place where you show off all the cool stuff you learned/earned playing PvE.
If there was something to be gained in PvP then maybe folks would take it more serious, but they don't.
So then what do you do when you've explored most or all of the content?
Why'd the devs even put in a PvP area if the community is so against it?
Maybe I just have a different perspective on this, because fucking with the other team is just what you do. They raid your towns for the hell of it, and you do the same right back to them. Especially considering that, in WoW at least, people have the option to not be flagged or not be in an area where you can be attacked. Some of the best times and most fun I've had was participating in the world events or shooting for the achievements that required you to get in the other team's face.
It wasn't just a PvP zone, it was a PvP minigame. It's like setting up a picnic in the middle of a soccor field when a game is scheduled, and then yelling at the guy who actually tries to play soccer.
After all, when you climb Mt. Kon Foo Sing to fight Grand Master Hung Lo and prove that your "Squirrel Chases the Jam-Coated Tiger" style is better than his "Dead Cockroach Flails Legs" style, you unleash a bunch of your SCtJCT moves, not wait for him to launch DCFL attacks and then just sit there and parry all day. And you certainly don't, having been kicked about, then say "Well you served me shitty tea before our battle" and go home.
WoW has different cultural conventions, probably because PvP is better balanced and better rewarded and more pervasive.
norms29 wrote:It wasn't just a PvP zone, it was a PvP minigame.
It is supposed to be a PvP minigame, just like christmas was supposed to be a celebration of the birth of christ. However, if you shoot Santa Claus for going against the spirit of christmas, you're still an asshole, even if he was standing in a zone where you can be perma-killed.
You know, as a CoH/V outsider myself, I have a question about this PvP area? How big is it? Is there room for some of this non-PvP activity to take place relatively far away from the pillboxes? If so, the other players may have something of a case against Twixt. After all, the minigame objective is to control the pillboxes, not the whole zone.
Doom314's satirical 4e power wrote:Complete AnnihilationWar-metawarrior 1
An awesome bolt of multicolored light fires from your eyes and strikes your foe, disintegrating him into a fine dust in a nonmagical way.
At-will: Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon ("sword", range 10/20)
Target: One Creature
Attack: Con vs AC
Hit: [W] + Con, and the target is slowed.
Yes, the zones are large. They're also strictly labeled as PvP - you can't just wander in. You have to choose to zone in, sit through a load time and then once you're through to the new area then you have to leave a safe zone in order to be attacked.
However, the zone isn't strictly PvP since there are enemies there that are great targets for PvE combat and leveling.
Twixt was awesome but his paper is doo-doo. Also, the devs in that game are clueless fumblefucks.
MartinHarper wrote:
It is supposed to be a PvP minigame, just like christmas was supposed to be a celebration of the birth of christ. However, if you shoot Santa Claus for going against the spirit of christmas, you're still an asshole, even if he was standing in a zone where you can be perma-killed.
I'm pretty sure you're an asshole for shooting anyone for going against the spirit of christmas.
I grant that no metaphor is perfect, but this one just seems especially unsuitable.
MartinHarper wrote:It is supposed to be a PvP minigame, just like christmas was supposed to be a celebration of the birth of christ. However, if you shoot Santa Claus for going against the spirit of christmas, you're still an asshole, even if he was standing in a zone where you can be perma-killed.
Wait, what?
Xmas = celebration of the birth of Christ minigame.
Shooting someone != celebration of the birth of Christ.
It would be more accurate to say that the CoH community disliked Twixt because he celebrated the birth of Christ on Christmas rather than going to the pub and knocking back a few pints with the rest of them. I mean, it's fine to go to the pub (if you can find one open) on Christmas and all, but complaining that it's somehow wrong to engage in the religious celebration is fucking retarded.
Even better, it's like Twixt went into a church with a midnight mass sign on Christmas Eve and proceeded to worship there, but a bunch of other folks were already there chatting and drinking Guinness.
Last edited by NineInchNall on Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Current pet peeves:
Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
Malformed singular possessives. It's almost always supposed to be 's.
NineInchNall wrote:
Even better, it's like Twixt went into a church with a midnight mass sign on Christmas Eve and proceeded to worship there, but a bunch of other folks were already there chatting and drinking Guinness.
Know what happened the last time someone got pissy because that was happening? Yeah, he got nailed to a cross at Easter.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
A far better analogy would be bumper cars. As says wikipedia:
Although the idea of the ride is to bump other cars, safety-conscious (or at least litigation-conscious) owners often put up signs reading "This way round" and "No bumping". Depending on the level of enforcement by operators, they are usually ignored by bumper car riders, especially younger children.
In this case, Twixt is bumping into other people that said "No bumping" is the correct way to play.
On one hand, bumping other cars is the "idea of the ride".
On the other hand, "No bumping" may be *a* correct way to play, and after observing other people for some time you should be able to identify which ones are appropriate to bump into.
On the third hand, being in a PvP zone seems to imply you accept to being bumped into ...
ibanez wrote:Getting pissed because you got into bumpers cars and were driving around and got bumped is retarded.
exactly
After all, when you climb Mt. Kon Foo Sing to fight Grand Master Hung Lo and prove that your "Squirrel Chases the Jam-Coated Tiger" style is better than his "Dead Cockroach Flails Legs" style, you unleash a bunch of your SCtJCT moves, not wait for him to launch DCFL attacks and then just sit there and parry all day. And you certainly don't, having been kicked about, then say "Well you served me shitty tea before our battle" and go home.
Actually, I think the biggest flaw in the paper (something MartinHarper alluded to) is that the guy mistakes a PvP zone designation for a natural law. Really, that was just a declaration of the owners of the game, not backed up by any penalty for teaming up with the other side. If the developers wanted "no team ups" to be a "natural law" of the game, they should have built penalties for teaming up into the mechanics. Maybe something like not rewarding the experience (or Influence or whatever in-game benefit you get) from defeating NPCs if the NPC is contemporaneously attacked by somebody on the other team. Or even better, just don't give any rewards for killing NPCs in the PvP zone.
As it is, given the current game set up and the size of the zone, I don't see why people wouldn't feel they have a right to do team-ups and fight-club matchups in this particular zone, as long as they were well away from the pillboxes.
Another thing that occurs to me is that Twixt appears never to have made a full and coherent defense of his unconventional behavior. His chat logs all seem to be things like, "Yay! Team Hero wins!" rather than, "But this is a PvP zone; we're supposed to get the pillboxes for our team." It would be interesting to see what the reaction to those kinds of statements would have been. The way he was acting, I can understand why people who didn't already know the character might honestly guess he was a child or had some form of autism.
Doom314's satirical 4e power wrote:Complete AnnihilationWar-metawarrior 1
An awesome bolt of multicolored light fires from your eyes and strikes your foe, disintegrating him into a fine dust in a nonmagical way.
At-will: Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon ("sword", range 10/20)
Target: One Creature
Attack: Con vs AC
Hit: [W] + Con, and the target is slowed.
Did you know that there's no "natural law" in [insert FPS of choice] CTF matches that prohibits or penalizes "team ups" for people who want to get together and have their characters do dance offs with in game gestures and whatnot?
I know, right? It's totally a dick move, then, to blow those dancers away when you're logged into a game of CTF. And if you then say, "yay!!1 team red wins gg," it's totally obvious that you're autistic.
Last edited by NineInchNall on Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Current pet peeves:
Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
Malformed singular possessives. It's almost always supposed to be 's.
NIN, that's a bad example. First Person Shooters do not normally give your character unlockable bonuses for holding Dance Offs in CTF arenas. If people were running those danceoffs on a regular fucking basis in order to unlock new guns and uniforms for their characters, you're damn right that sniping them in the middle of a line dance and then saying "Red Wins gg!" would be a dick move.
I can just see that now. Unlockable tutus and glow sticks.
Total awesomeness.
And I disagree about whether it would be a dick move to gun those wankers down. If I come into a CTF game, I'm going to play some CTF. That's, ya know, the name of the game and all. If people want to unlock some stuff by doing some off the hook breakdancing moves, then they should damn well figure out a way to do it that doesn't involve the overlay of a set of rules on top of CTF, especially if that overlay is in opposition to the rules and goals of CTF.
On the other hand, CoH does not hand out unlockable bonuses for hanging out in a PvP zone and chatting, which is half of what the people who are complaining are doing. As mean_liar said, the pvp zones are used as a way to show off people's shiny new gear.
I mean seriously, if the people want to farm crap in a PvP zone, that's their prerogative. They should, however, come up with a way to do so within the PvP context. Like, I don't know, fucking put some characters on guard duty and learn to use effective PvP tactics.
Last edited by NineInchNall on Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:32 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Current pet peeves:
Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
Malformed singular possessives. It's almost always supposed to be 's.
The thing is, people weren't stopping him from capturing the damn flags. They were doing off the hook breakdancing moves in a corner to unlock shit for use in other games, and then he took time away from the flag capturing to go murder peoples' characters for nothing.
This is in no way different from people who log into Hardcore servers on Diabo II battlenet and then go aggro on peoples' characters and then go hunt their characters down for their ears. The game allows it, but that doesn't mean you aren't being an obvious twat for doing it.
