AFAIK, until it's actually deleted, it's easy to find anything with Google - just tested some - as long as memory provides a good enough quote to try. Whether anyone here cares (since I didn't like them either): that's another issue, but I did have "anti-revisionist" thoughts as soon as the links were gone.Frank wrote:So you can actually get to most of it following internal article links, it's just really hard to actually find any particular segment because the archives won't tell you where that shit is.
4E: what can we expect from SAGA and Bo9S?
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Re: 4E: what can we expect from SAGA and Bo9S?
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
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The sad thing about this thread is that all of the optimistic predictions were wrong and all of the skeptical ones were right.
This thread made me weep stoic, manly Indian tears and I'm bumping it because misery loves company.
This thread made me weep stoic, manly Indian tears and I'm bumping it because misery loves company.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Lago PARANOIA wrote:The sad thing about this thread is that all of the optimistic predictions were wrong and all of the skeptical ones were right.
This thread made me weep stoic, manly Indian tears and I'm bumping it because misery loves company.
I remember making worried 4e predictions from the moment they came out with the first development previews. I also remember saying "I really hope I'm wrong." And then... not being wrong, except in that my predictions of failure at that point weren't extreme enough.
Last edited by Caedrus on Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 4E: what can we expect from SAGA and Bo9S?
Say, did they ever actually make a fire mage who can, you know, throw fire and burninate the countryside?Draco_Argentum wrote:Sounds good in theory. If I'm a fire mage I want to throw fire, not cast sleep then plink with a crossbow.
It would be so damned easy to have written up a playable power list for a wizard to be a fire blaster, but I don't recall it actually having been done. There's some fire powers you can load up on from level 1 onwards, but damn if they don't look awful.
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But if you want a firemage, all you have to do is reflavor existing powers and say they do fire damage (even if the game mechanics say they do cold damage--wait, new power source: cold fire! Brilliant!) Besides, the fire mage is on its way in Arcane Power 3. What's your problem?
Doom314's satirical 4e power wrote:Complete AnnihilationWar-metawarrior 1
An awesome bolt of multicolored light fires from your eyes and strikes your foe, disintegrating him into a fine dust in a nonmagical way.
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Homebrew Feat: Fire Mage.
Everything's better with Fire
Your acid, cold, lightning, and radiant powers now also do fire damage and have the fire keyword.
I wouldn't make an entire character build just for someone who wants to cast Fire Spray instead of Color Spray.
Everything's better with Fire
Your acid, cold, lightning, and radiant powers now also do fire damage and have the fire keyword.
I wouldn't make an entire character build just for someone who wants to cast Fire Spray instead of Color Spray.
Last edited by MartinHarper on Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah!MartinHarper wrote:Homebrew Feat: Fire Mage.
Everything's better with Fire
Your acid, cold, lightning, and radiant powers now also do fire damage and have the fire keyword.
I wouldn't make an entire character build just for someone who wants to cast Fire Spray instead of Color Spray.
Don't forget thunder and force powers! Probably best to do it whole cloth without mentioning old types specifically. It should probably be something like "All typed damage powers now do fire damage instead of their previous damage type and have the fire keyword replacing any former damage type keywords."
Now that makes for a pretty fun selection (except that 99% powers are pretty lame by my 3e standards)! Grab a couple more feats to augment fire powers somehow, and that would be lovely.
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That would work. I kinda like the idea of ice bolt + fire mage feat = cold fire, and this also provides a rationale for the slowing effect. Also, by adding fire damage, rather than replacing, you still get to choose radiant powers for extra damage to undead (aka holy fire).clikml wrote:It should probably be something like "All typed damage powers now do fire damage instead of their previous damage type and have the fire keyword replacing any former damage type keywords."
There's also psychic and necrotic damage, depending on whether psychic fire breaks your suspension of disbelief.
Alrighty, I can dig that.
Heh, there's poison damage too. God knows how many more there are. I made the mistake of assuming you had missed damage types rather than just targeted a few for substitution since I got very excited at the prospect of eeeeeeverything becoming fire damage. I have no problem with suspension of disbelief or rules-ethics for changing anything to fire damage. Stinking Cloud, Color Spray, Ice Bolt, you name it and I'll whip up a fire analog. I am fire-crazy enough that psychic fire is totally cool to me. Give em burning fevers with your psychic schtick! Kill em with a crit using psychic fire damage and have their head explode in a burst of flames. Ooooh yeah.
I was thinking total substitution, but tacking it on could do well. I dunno how that calculates out on things with a resistance, weakness or immunity though. Hell, I don't even know how those properties work in 4e due to my lack of scholarship on the edition's rule set. Splitting the damage to be 50% one type and 50% another like 3rd edition Flame Strike never really appealed to me. Too clunky. That's one reason my mind immediately assumed total replacement.
I'd be 1000% more excited with this notion if it wasn't 4e. Honestly the fire feat thingy could work for any class' powers, not just wizard. Just many classes don't have a fun damage type to be altered. Perhaps if someone had a weapon that was actually made out of fire (or spent a feat to be able to generate one as an encounter power using a move action). Instead of a light saber, you get a fire saber. Then convert all weapon damage for attacks into fire damage. Hoo-ah!
I suppose a feat that allowed your weapon to take on fire damage type to its weapon damage would be fairly balanced (if a bit weak, actually). A cold variant would be even better for those stupid wintertouched feats that some rogues like or whatever it is that gives them combat advantage for hitting someone with something cold.
[edit: typoes]
Heh, there's poison damage too. God knows how many more there are. I made the mistake of assuming you had missed damage types rather than just targeted a few for substitution since I got very excited at the prospect of eeeeeeverything becoming fire damage. I have no problem with suspension of disbelief or rules-ethics for changing anything to fire damage. Stinking Cloud, Color Spray, Ice Bolt, you name it and I'll whip up a fire analog. I am fire-crazy enough that psychic fire is totally cool to me. Give em burning fevers with your psychic schtick! Kill em with a crit using psychic fire damage and have their head explode in a burst of flames. Ooooh yeah.
I was thinking total substitution, but tacking it on could do well. I dunno how that calculates out on things with a resistance, weakness or immunity though. Hell, I don't even know how those properties work in 4e due to my lack of scholarship on the edition's rule set. Splitting the damage to be 50% one type and 50% another like 3rd edition Flame Strike never really appealed to me. Too clunky. That's one reason my mind immediately assumed total replacement.
I'd be 1000% more excited with this notion if it wasn't 4e. Honestly the fire feat thingy could work for any class' powers, not just wizard. Just many classes don't have a fun damage type to be altered. Perhaps if someone had a weapon that was actually made out of fire (or spent a feat to be able to generate one as an encounter power using a move action). Instead of a light saber, you get a fire saber. Then convert all weapon damage for attacks into fire damage. Hoo-ah!
I suppose a feat that allowed your weapon to take on fire damage type to its weapon damage would be fairly balanced (if a bit weak, actually). A cold variant would be even better for those stupid wintertouched feats that some rogues like or whatever it is that gives them combat advantage for hitting someone with something cold.
[edit: typoes]
Last edited by erik on Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hey now. Soooooome people have yellow musk creeper fetish, I have my fire sub fetish.FrankTrollman wrote:Why are people talking about Energy Substitution as if it were exciting or revolutionary?
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[add-edit]
I really did like the Fire Mage notion from the Tomes. I'd be totally willing to play a Fire Mage so long as I had some sort of option to not be totally useless against Fire Immune guys. Like melting terrain to slow em down, or summon a fire/lava type critter who could at least do some other physical attacks.
I've always longed for a fire themed character who didn't suck or just have like 3 options.
Yeah, it's a bit lame to be psyched about energy substitution, but it's even more lame that it still isn't a viable option in 4e yet.
[/edit: added a bit about the Fire Mage and cleverly disguised my barb, tho I'm sure Frank already read it and didn't take my troll bait anywho]
Last edited by erik on Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I think it says more about the blandness and rigidity of 4e than it does about people.FrankTrollman wrote:Why are people talking about Energy Substitution as if it were exciting or revolutionary?
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Doom314's satirical 4e power wrote:Complete AnnihilationWar-metawarrior 1
An awesome bolt of multicolored light fires from your eyes and strikes your foe, disintegrating him into a fine dust in a nonmagical way.
At-will: Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon ("sword", range 10/20)
Target: One Creature
Attack: Con vs AC
Hit: [W] + Con, and the target is slowed.
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You use whichever property allows the most damage. For example, if you do Fire/Cold damage to a creature with Fire immunity and Cold vulnerability, you use the vulnerability.clikml wrote:I was thinking total substitution, but tacking it on could do well. I dunno how that calculates out on things with a resistance, weakness or immunity though.
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