ability scores

[Spaghetti Western]

I've never much cared for the composition of abilities in D&D.


I am thinking about creating and testing a new set up for a campaign (3.5 based) and came up with these four.

Strength - lifting, hitting things hard, carrying. jumping, absorbing blows (

Intellect - problem solving, memory, observing, talent

Athletics - moving quickly, balance, aim, reflexes

Mettle - endurance, will, leadership, force of personality,fortitude


Anyone use something similar? Any problems with these or things I need to consider? Basically looking put this through the ringer.

additionally would it make sense and be consistent to then have a matching save type for each? so instead of having fortitude, reflex & will saves - it would be the above 4 attributes?

[Spaghetti Western]

In thinking about this more I believe I could get by with just the following

Strength (fold in con) : melee attacks, HP & fortitude
Intellect (fold in wis & cha) :skills learned, bonus casting & will
Athleticism : AC, Ranged attacks & initiave

this gives you the strong man, the smart man and the fast man along with various combinations. Do we really need more than that to start with. Additionally talents like being persuasive or a leader would be skill based.

[IGTN]

You probably want to replace Intellect with some other mental stat, if you intend to have puzzles of any kind in your game. Will and Spirit are good choices.

Also, Strength and Mettle aren't well differentiated. Absorbing blows is one, but endurance is the other?

[Orca]

If you do the first, you're well on the way to recreating GURPS (ST, DX, IQ, HT). It might be useful to look there, depending on what else you're doing.

IMO you want to split the number of skills learned off Intellect & maybe make this a constant if you're staying close otherwise to 3.5e D&D - it's too much of a do-everything stat for casters otherwise (more intellect already leads to more spells to avoid damage, more spells to be stealthy or do stuff at range, etc.)

[Spaghetti Western]

Orca,

So perhaps just go with a constant skills per level as determined by class? example all fighters gain 5 skills per level, etc

IGTN,

I'm not understanding you. Why wouldn't intellect pertain to solving puzzles?

Agreed str and mettle overlapped. Could either get rid of it entirely or make it just a "intangible" stat - basically a combination of parts of wisdom & charisma - a person with high mettle would be less likely to succumb to fear and more likely to be a good leader. The dude from Brave Heart would have high mettle. - but should those things just be handled within the skill system?

[IGTN]

Intellect would pertain to solving puzzles. That's the problem. If you put a puzzle in and expect the players to solve it, whether a puzzle trap or a dungeon with a tricky layout, or whatever, then, if you have a stat for "puzzle-solving ability" you should not be relying on out of character puzzle solving ability. Just roll the check and skip it/tell them the solution. Otherwise you have situations where the barbarian is doing the "smart" thing better than the scholar who does these things for fun, purely because of what the players do out of character.

[Spaghetti Western]

Ahh I see,

so intellect = skills learned per level, bonus casting, will saves.

Problem solving stays in the realm of the players and not determined by a stat

[Spaghetti Western]

So here is my first draft of ability scores & determination.

My goals were A) simplification and B) make all scores relevant for each class while preserving differences.


Ability Scores
Ability scores represent the basic attributes and natural inclinations characters begin their career with. The 3 abilities are Strength, Intellect & Athleticism.

Strength
Strength is measure of physical prowess, power, fortitude and the ability to take and recover from damage.
Strength modifier affects
Melee attacking & damage
Hit points per level
Fortitude saves
Healing
Load bearing

Intellect
Intellect is measure of mental prowess, the ability to learn, memory & strength of mind
Intellect modifier affects
Bonus feat progression
Skills learned per level
Will saves
Bonus spell progression


Athleticism
Athleticism is measure of quickness, aim, balance, & speed
Athleticism modifier affects
Armor class
Ranged attacks
Reflex saves
Initiative
Movement bonus


Abilities start with a modifier of 0 which represents average. Players have 4 points of modifiers they allocate to the three ability scores. Additionally 1 or 2 scores be lowered to a -2 in order to gain additional points to allocate to the other scores. Example lower a characters Athleticism score to -1 and apply an additional +1 to strength

[CatharzGodfoot]

I once tried using the following setup:
[*]Physique (most of strength and constitution)
[*]Grace (most of dexterity; melee attack rolls)
[*]Perception (perceptual aspects of wisdom, dexterity, and intelligence; ranged attack rolls)
[*]Willpower (willpower aspects of wisdom, most of charisma)

It wasn't worth it. It's a better system, but trying to propagate such a fundamental change through 3e is too much work. I'd probably use an attribute system like this if I were to develop a 3e-like game, but I don't plan on using anything but the standard 6 so long as I'm playing 3e.