News that makes us laugh, cry, or both

[MGuy]

I agree with Tzor about political debates. I debated in high school and what they do is decidedly not debating. I find political debates to be mostly devoid of any intellectual entertainment. The debates are just reviews of what both (or all) the candidates have already said.

As for what reasons this administration has decided to keep things secret It might be that he did indeed lie. It might be that actually can't release the information and can't say why. It might be that what he found out was so horrible that if he were to release the information there would be major backlash from the horrified masses. Any one of these are possible though I'm more leaning on the latter because in all seriousness Obama is a newb at this and I doubt he had fore knowledge of what he was getting himself into.

Because of his position he has to tip toe around everything he's touching on. Everything he does is being heavily scrutinized and any evidence of him having an actual personal opinion will be completely burned by his many many (and significantly louder) detractors.

[mean_liar]

But what you're persistently not getting is that Down Syndrome isn't even a eugenics question.

It is when you're advocating forced abortions. The fact that some aren't naturally aborted is as much an expression of the body's estimation of their viability as it is the possibility that the ABORT flag didn't go off.

That you would tidily just abort every last one of them because you assume that the body has no idea what its supposed to be doing and hey, they're better off dead anyway is just violent hubris.

That you're studying to be a doctor and have no faith in the human body or its processes and see abortion as preferable to having a child with Down syndrome is a painful reminder of how divorced from reality medical education can be.

[Heath Robinson]

But what you're persistently not getting is that Down Syndrome isn't even a eugenics question.

It is when you're advocating forced abortions.

'Eugenics is "the study of, or belief in, the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics)."'

Aborting foetuses with a non-heritable defect is not Eugenics. Sterilising a family whose children are unexplainably born with more non-heritable defects in a statistically significant manner is Eugenics since the exceptional expression of non-heritable defects with no known reason is likely to be a heritable factor.

[Ganbare Gincun]

In terms of TV debates, form has always trumped substance. The first famous debate, Nixon and Kennedy was basically decided by, of all things, makeup or the lack thereof.

Nixon lost his first debate against Kennedy so badly because he exercised poor judgment and refused to wear either the attire or the makeup that was offered by the network And although Nixon lost that election against Kennedy, he eventually became President... and I think we all know how badly that turned out.

Today, the basic function of TV debates is to give the candidates a chance to publically avoid “foot in mouth” disease. Other than that, there is not much to modern debates.

Modern political debates are much more important then you are making them out to be - they serve as a public forum for both intellectual and political competition amongst political candidates. They allow candidates to espouse their views on a wide variety of issues of importance to the electorate while simultaneously forcing them to defend their positions against the criticism of the their opponents. They also allow voters to observe candidates in action and evaluate them on a personal level, which is especially important given the fact that many Americans will never have the opportunity to meet a presidential candidate in person. They may not be important to someone that is already strongly affiliated with a political party or has sworn their allegiance to a candidate, but for Americans that are undecided, they play a very important role indeed.

Obama was clearly playing by different rules. Rules are determined by the media at large and by and by the general coverage and promotion of The One even throughout the primary season was sickening at best.

Really now? So all of the libel and slander put forth about Obama by the mainstream media was "promotional"? The mainstream media serves corporate interests, just like the Republican Party - they were in the tank for McCain from the start and everyone knows it.

It says a lot when people who compile the data after the fact state that the media that gave Clinton the most balanced (in terms of favorable / unfavorable) was FOX news.

I have to ask - who compiled this data? Do you have evidence to support this statement?

The amount of attacks against disabled people (McCain’s inability to raise his arms as a result of his POW wounds) were also significant.

I don't recall this ever coming up during the campaign. Once again: do you have evidence to support this statement?

Returning to the Iraq war, Obama was not a senator in Washington. He did not receive the CIA briefings about the weapons or all the other intelligence.

I already demonstrated in my last post that he made the correct decision back in 2002 and stated his opposition to the Iraq War back when he was an Illinois State Senator. Click on the links and see for yourself. That's why I included them.

Even when he became a senator, he was too busy running for president. His committees never met, his votes were always the generic “present” and the number of bills he sponsored (compared to Clinton for example) was practically non existant.

Once again: as I demonstrated in my last post, Obama's number of "present" votes accounted for merely 3% of the total votes that he cast on the floor of the Illinois State Senate. I also provided links that explained precisely why he cast "present" votes, and the political context in which such a vote may be cast within the Illinois State Senate.

This is why I stated that the debates don’t count. Everything was pretty much scripted, something that one could expect and prepare for well in advance. It is not a good indication of his ability to “ad lib” a conversation or to hold a real debate. The nasty questions were not thrown at him, unlike the other candidates, and the chances to put foot in mouth were strongly controlled.

Obama and McCain were given an equal opportunity to answer the questions that were put forth during the Presidental Debates. I'm sorry that the questions that they were asked to answer weren't "nasty enough" for your liking. But they both had adequate opportunities to politically express themselves, defend their ideas, and present valid, cogent criticism of their opponent's platform. I realize that you're upset that your candidate lost, and I'm sorry that you believe that Obama had some kind of "secret Konami race card" that ensured his victory in the debates, but the face of the matter is that John McCain didn't do very well in the debates, ran a terrible campaign, was deeply intertwined with one of the most worthless Presidents in American history, and was consequently rejected by American voters in a landslide victory for Obama.

[Ganbare Gincun]

Much as I support most of what the president has done, his civil liberties and open government positions are... disappointing. Very disappointing.

Obama can't get any forward momentum going on Guantanamo, which basically means that we're stuck in a holding pattern on these issues until our financial issues are resolved. The fact of the matter is that America are facing 19% unemployment and couldn't care less about Guantanamo right now, and Obama would be a fool to burn political capital on this issue while our economy comes crashing down around our heads.

[Ganbare Gincun]

I can actually see calling Obama secretive. Aside from supporting the telco immunity for spying crap theres "Obama Administration Declares Proposed IP Treaty a ‘National Security’ Secret". Thats bullshit.

This is in fact total bullshit, and it doesn't bode well for anyone at all. Like we don't have enough problems with the DMCA, the MPAA, and the RIAA as it is...

[Prak]

So you're choosing something that isn't an option? Because while Libertarians claim to want that, none of them actually do. They have actual laws they want to impose, most of them bad.

Objectivist Party- Dr. Tom Stevens

Granted, I have no clue how things would actually work out, but I think that's basically what they say would happen.

[Ganbare Gincun]

So you're choosing something that isn't an option? Because while Libertarians claim to want that, none of them actually do. They have actual laws they want to impose, most of them bad.

Objectivist Party- Dr. Tom Stevens

Granted, I have no clue how things would actually work out, but I think that's basically what they say would happen.

The Objectivist Party - the party for those that think that teabaggers, birthers, and wingnuts aren't "hardcore" enough! Join the Objectivist Party and "Go Galt" today!

[Maxus]

So you're choosing something that isn't an option? Because while Libertarians claim to want that, none of them actually do. They have actual laws they want to impose, most of them bad.

Objectivist Party- Dr. Tom Stevens

Granted, I have no clue how things would actually work out, but I think that's basically what they say would happen.

The Objectivist Party - the party for those that think that teabaggers, birthers, and wingnuts aren't "hardcore" enough! Join the Objectivist Party and "Go Galt" today!

[erik]

So you're choosing something that isn't an option? Because while Libertarians claim to want that, none of them actually do. They have actual laws they want to impose, most of them bad.

Objectivist Party- Dr. Tom Stevens

Granted, I have no clue how things would actually work out, but I think that's basically what they say would happen.

The Objectivist Party - the party for those that think that teabaggers, birthers, and wingnuts aren't "hardcore" enough! Join the Objectivist Party and "Go Galt" today!

That is what I got from their sites. A bunch of nut job morons who have not been paying attention to that the free market is not intelligent but instead is greedy to a fault. Libertarians who have not had their faith shaken by the financial atrocities of late due to lack of sufficient regulations... well they are either blind or crazy.

[Koumei]

...most of the "He's very secretive/bad" chatter seems to be related to "He's not undoing enough of what Bush started, and is still continuing most of it."

I'm not sure what to say:

"Give the man some damn time, he didn't claim to be the fucking messiah here (although I'm aware there are those who treat him as such - hey, I know both wings get crazy fanatics)."

or "So how does that make him worse? If Bush lights a hundred people on fire, and Obama only douses the flames on four of them, he still did better than Bush by four, and that's taking the generous-on-Bush approach, because you could also argue he did better by 104 seeing as he didn't set anyone on fire either."

[Maxus]

As a side note, it's a little weird to think how people in Australia are pretty well-versed on the United States political situation, and embarrassing because what I know about Australian politics can be summed up as: Nil.

On the other hand, if I lived in another country, I'd be keeping an ear out for what's happening in the U.S., too. Fuckers are CRAZY over here, and most of them are allowed to vote.

[PhoneLobster]

Australian politics was kind of exciting for a while there, a decade of "OMFG what is that dickweed in Canberra going to pull next!".

I could spend half the day listing and describing the ENDLESS scandals he manufactured. (scratch that, make it all week, I just tried and I could name about twenty just off the top of my head in about 5 minutes)

But we finally lost our version of George Bush. We had ours much longer. It sucked. But Australia isn't big enough that he could dig us into as big a hole as yours did.

But we are still in a hole. And crawling out with the dull water treading centrists we finally got instead will take FOREVER.

[Koumei]

Yeah, it was terrible. But we still weren't really noteworthy enough for other countries to really pay attention. Let's face it: we know some Australian politics, some American, and individuals stay in the loop for places of interest (like Britainland for me, and I vaguely listen to what's going on in Sweden, Russia and South Ossetia), nothing else.

I'm pretty sure most Australians have no clue what the political climate is in, say, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Mordor or Japan, all of which are closer to us than America.

[Prak]

The "most influential modern art work of all time" has been named. (what so soon?)

I will now allow you to all place your guesses.

done?

It's a signed urinal

As an artist myself, I'm thoroughly offended. Even "Piss Christ" required some effort in that the "artist" had to piss in a jar and put a crucifix in it. This "artist" merely signed the damned thing and said "here you go."

As a lazy fuck, I'm awestruck, and inspired to slap some piece of shit together, call it art, bullshit some line about it's "deeper meaning" and wait for my million dollars.

[Crissa]

Yeah, he signed it to see if someone would buy it, as a remark on the condition of modern art.

Which in itself, once it sold, makes it into a great piece of art because of the meaning of the piece.

Alas, since then many urinals have been made as art... But that has to do more with the meshing of art with living spaces and entertainment. Someone had to paint those urinals in each and every video game you played...

-Crissa

[Prak]

Yeah, he signed it to see if someone would buy it, as a remark on the condition of modern art.

Which in itself, once it sold, makes it into a great piece of art because of the meaning of the piece.

Alas, since then many urinals have been made as art... But that has to do more with the meshing of art with living spaces and entertainment. Someone had to paint those urinals in each and every video game you played...

-Crissa

I'm trying to think of the last time I played a video game that included urinals... I have to admit that I've played Enter the Matrix within the last couple of days, so you have a good point.

[Draco_Argentum]

...most of the "He's very secretive/bad" chatter seems to be related to "He's not undoing enough of what Bush started, and is still continuing most of it."

Damn straight, its like hes realised that Bush got away with it so he can too. No I'm not giving him time, some of the problems could seriously be fixed by him sending a single memo.

As a side note, it's a little weird to think how people in Australia are pretty well-versed on the United States political situation, and embarrassing because what I know about Australian politics can be summed up as: Nil.

I think thats forgivable really, Australian politics isn't important to the same degree as the US. That bullshit copyright negotiation is a national secret bit hurts the whole world, utegate is only relevant in .au, although its worth a laugh at the Liberal party's stupidity.

Although if you want to see a modern western democracy turned into essentially a police state read The Fitzgerald Inquiry. That shit isn't just for third world countries.

[Absentminded_Wizard]

This is why I stated that the debates don’t count. Everything was pretty much scripted, something that one could expect and prepare for well in advance. It is not a good indication of his ability to “ad lib” a conversation or to hold a real debate. The nasty questions were not thrown at him, unlike the other candidates, and the chances to put foot in mouth were strongly controlled.

Obama and McCain were given an equal opportunity to answer the questions that were put forth during the Presidental Debates. I'm sorry that the questions that they were asked to answer weren't "nasty enough" for your liking. But they both had adequate opportunities to politically express themselves, defend their ideas, and present valid, cogent criticism of their opponent's platform. I realize that you're upset that your candidate lost, and I'm sorry that you believe that Obama had some kind of "secret Konami race card" that ensured his victory in the debates, but the face of the matter is that John McCain didn't do very well in the debates, ran a terrible campaign, was deeply intertwined with one of the most worthless Presidents in American history, and was consequently rejected by American voters in a landslide victory for Obama.

Not only that, but McCain actually asked Obama, point blank, about his connections with Bill Ayers and used his "spread the wealth" quote to Joe the Wannabe-Plumber as socialism. Maybe you have to shout it like a Birther nutjob to be nasty enough for your standards, but there was actual confrontation.

[tzor]

Tzor were you complaining about the illegal wirestaps and surveillance on civillians when the Bush administration was starting their precedent and expanding their use? If not then let the non-hypocrites complain about it, please.

I was almost at the simmering point, hot under the color but not complaining about it. But I don't think that was my original point. I'm talking about all that not disclosiung who saw the president during the whole energy debate thing which is being replayed now with healthcare in spite of Obama's insistance that the health care debate would be held in the open and in public.

And if at times I wasn't complaining, it was because there were others who were complaining.

[tzor]

Obama and McCain were given an equal opportunity to answer the questions that were put forth during the Presidental Debates. I'm sorry that the questions that they were asked to answer weren't "nasty enough" for your liking. But they both had adequate opportunities to politically express themselves, defend their ideas, and present valid, cogent criticism of their opponent's platform. I realize that you're upset that your candidate lost, and I'm sorry that you believe that Obama had some kind of "secret Konami race card" that ensured his victory in the debates, but the face of the matter is that John McCain didn't do very well in the debates, ran a terrible campaign, was deeply intertwined with one of the most worthless Presidents in American history, and was consequently rejected by American voters in a landslide victory for Obama.

First of all, if I gave the impression that I was upset about the Obama / McCain debates, then that was the wrong one. Other than the fact that it wasn’t a proper debate, when you get to final debates like those they tend to be the least offensive of the bunch. I was mostly talking about the primaries and everything around them. That being said, it’s hard to debate a snake oil salesman. They complain about everything, promise the moon and do it all in a very entertaining style. McCain was out classed, out maneuvered, and in generally every way out gunned.

I am, however, still mad as hell that JC Watts was virtually in hiding for all of 2008. He probably knew that we would have drafted him to the nomination in a heartbeat. We will never know how an Obama / Watts debate would have turned out.

[MGuy]

With the health care bill (which seems not to be finished)the party (not just Obama) probably can't actual reveal any details because there aren't concrete details to reveal. If I'm not mistaken the bill is not finished so there aren't any details they can give beyond the scope of the bill's design goals.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

The "most influential modern art work of all time" has been named. (what so soon?)

I will now allow you to all place your guesses.

done?

It's a signed urinal

As an artist myself, I'm thoroughly offended. Even "Piss Christ" required some effort in that the "artist" had to piss in a jar and put a crucifix in it. This "artist" merely signed the damned thing and said "here you go."

As a lazy fuck, I'm awestruck, and inspired to slap some piece of shit together, call it art, bullshit some line about it's "deeper meaning" and wait for my million dollars.

Please do not disparage the Dadaist movement in my presence.

[Maxus]

Abso-fucking-lutely fascinating.

http://carloz.newsvine.com/_news/2009/0 ... er-vp-says

For further reading, google "Cheney" and "Statute of Limitations"

That's really encouraging. And the best part is, you KNOW Cheney's going to be a lot more thorough about Bush than on his own things which could actually, you know, fuck him over.

Also: The previous vice President considers it okay to have a tell-all session if the statute of limitations has expired on the subjects discussed.

[MGuy]

Nope... Don't trust this for a god damn second. This is going to be angled in a way that makes both of them seem better. A man will go to the grave with his secrets to avoid shame.