GOP--Sore Losers

[Heath Robinson]

It's sort of one reason why the UN fails. Imagine if in the New York always wanted to score political brownie points against California. Now imagine if several of the big states, including the above two have veto power in the senate. Nothing would ever get done in the senate. Government requires that all parties want to reasonably get along with each other. When that is not the case the only workable solution is Diplomacy, not Government.

You're conflating the UNSC with the UN General Assembly in your analogy. The GA has nominally equal representation and has no vetoes whatsoever. The UNSC is very slow to act, but it's only mandated to preserve peace and security - it is not the main organ of the UN.

Please stop being wrong.

[tzor]

You're conflating the UNSC with the UN General Assembly in your analogy. The GA has nominally equal representation and has no vetoes whatsoever. The UNSC is very slow to act, but it's only mandated to preserve peace and security - it is not the main organ of the UN.

Please stop being wrong.

Perhaps, but the UNGA doesn’t do anything of significant value: (From Wiki) “The United Nations General Assembly (UNGA / GA) is one of the five principal organs of the United Nations and the only one in which all member nations have equal representation. Its powers are to oversee the budget of the United Nations, appoint the non-permanent members to the Security Council, receive reports from other parts of the United Nations and make recommendations in the form of General Assembly Resolutions.”

But let’s read on, and see the then and the want to be now, “The General Assembly votes on many resolutions brought forth by sponsoring states. These are generally statements symbolizing the sense of the international community about an array of world issues. Most General Assembly resolutions are not enforceable as a legal or practical matter, because the General Assembly lacks enforcement powers with respect to most issues. However, various groups feel that the old classic concept according to which General Assembly resolutions have no legal effect must be discarded. Not only does the General Assembly have authority to make final decisions in some areas such as the United Nations budget, but many resolutions may also be constitutive or proof of international customary law, and therefore binding on member states.”

There is also a effort to add an elected body to the UN, “A United Nations Parliamentary Assembly (UNPA) is a proposed addition to the United Nations System that would allow for participation of member nations' legislators and, eventually, direct election of United Nations (UN) parliament members by citizens worldwide. … Supporters have set forth possible UNPA implementations, including promulgation of a new treaty; creation of a UNPA as a subsidiary body of the UN General Assembly; and evolution of a UNPA from the Inter-Parliamentary Union or another nongovernmental organization. Several proposals for apportionment of votes have been raised to address disparities in UN members' population and economic power. CEUNPA advocates initially giving the UNPA advisory powers and gradually increasing its authority over the UN system. Opponents cite issues such as funding, voter turnout, and undemocratic UN member nations as reasons for abandoning the project altogether.”

[Lago PARANOIA]

If you're going by Presidents that inflicted harm to the United States or just committed evil when a better alternative was in sight, Nixon wouldn't even be in the top 15. Yes, there was the Vietnam thing but honestly I can't think of any 20th century president that would've handled it better at the point Nixon would've taken over. Maybe Carter.

If you're talking about long-term harm to the United States we have jackholes like Wilson and Bush Jr.. If we're talking about people who are pure evil then Nixon doesn't even hold a candle to the two 'Drews.


Nevertheless, it's very very important that we demonize his legacy every chance we get. The important takeaway from that is that no one is above the law, a lesson that seems to have been completely fucking forgotten in favor for the War on Terra Gaia Terror.

[Heath Robinson]

Umm, tzor, why am I to be afraid? It's a future possibility, not an imminent reality. It's even noted in the things you quote as being contested, with reasonable arguments both ways. You've yet to answer that criticism of your argument in any form.

I'm not even afraid should the UNPA become an imminent reality - you've given me no real argument to believe that granting the UN any kind of legislative authority will have any negative outcomes above those of the US or EU systems. I would like to see such an argument put into words, because it seems to be the supporting element of your argument. You are afraid of a world government, but I can see only advantage when it comes to dealing with global issues like climate regulation.

[Titanium Dragon]

If you're talking about long-term harm to the United States we have jackholes like Wilson and Bush Jr.. If we're talking about people who are pure evil then Nixon doesn't even hold a candle to the two 'Drews.

I don't think that's entirely fair to Wilson; while he was a racist bastard, he also was the only person who worked to try and prevent World War II, when everyone else was hungering for blood. It was his ideas which eventually caused us not to repeat the mistakes of the past after the second World War.

Nixon did damage the country by the example he set; later presidents would have been far less bold in their illegal activities had Nixon been more seriously dealt with. Though one could argue that was Ford's fault.

[Maj]

So, how about a practical discussion of the UN...

What's going to happen if Japan refuses the UN's request to ban games and manga containing themes of rape and sexual violence? Why is the UN making the request to begin with? Are women's human rights being violated by these erotic drawings?

[Lago PARANOIA]

Nixon did damage the country by the example he set; later presidents would have been far less bold in their illegal activities had Nixon been more seriously dealt with. Though one could argue that was Ford's fault.

??

This kind of crap has been going on forever. Wilson and Eisenhower in particular did this kind of illegal crap to the point of an artform. Nixon was just a dumbshit who got caught and is thus our whipping boy.

[Lago PARANOIA]

So, how about a practical discussion of the UN...

What's going to happen if Japan refuses the UN's request to ban games and manga containing themes of rape and sexual violence? Why is the UN making the request to begin with? Are women's human rights being violated by these erotic drawings?

I'm glad you brought it up, Maj, it reminds me of this thread: http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=49 ... ht=lolicon

And I learned something that day. The lessons I learned that day is that sublimation in entertainment causes less harm than it creates.

And of course this creates a slippery slope. If we ban manga are we going to ban the Old Testament? That is one of the filthiest books in history. It reads like the Starr report.

[Koumei]

The theory is that it makes Japan into a nation of crazy rapists. Which is interesting, given America and Russia outstrip them by far on that count. Many other nations too, for that matter.

Note that if it sets precedent for the banning of the Bible, I might actually be okay with that, because it could do more longterm good.

And just what do they mean by sexual violence? For instance, Ikki Tousen contains young ladies fighting (martial arts) while wearing 2/3 of nothing. Or what if someone were to hit someone else in the head with a golf club, but in a very sexy manner? What of BuffyxSpike sex where the building tends to get destroyed as a result of their normal approach? They really need to clarify these things.

[mean_liar]

That's true. It's eight people with veto power over the rest of the world instead of three.

And indebting the rest of the world and forcing them to license crops from your agribusiness is just good economic sense!

Shame on them for, you know, being upset about it and all.

Unfortunately, this is how economic progress happens. People can opt-in and opt-out as they see fit and eventually labor EVERYWHERE will be oppressed and cheap and not just in underdeveloped countries and we'll all go back to barter.

The G8's move to the G22+ is the first sign of egalitarian-izing the market, but they don't have "veto" powers and they can't force agribusiness licensing.

Also, V-GURT tech hasn't been successfully commercialized; you'll need another anti-market strawman. I'd suggest Argentina's reforms of the 90s.

That said, there are problems with agricultural subsidies in developed countries depressing world markets, in addition to a host of other, similar issues. However, the easiest way to resolve those problems is to get together and actually talk about them, and removing the G22+ and the Rounds doesn't replace them with anything. Remember that you're forcing non-state actors to the table and to do that you're going to have to incentivize the process somehow or else they simply won't show and then you're left with May Day parades and hoping that there's a big COMINTERN revival.

[Meikle641]

So, how about a practical discussion of the UN...

What's going to happen if Japan refuses the UN's request to ban games and manga containing themes of rape and sexual violence? Why is the UN making the request to begin with? Are women's human rights being violated by these erotic drawings?

Oh, it seems to have gotten worse than that.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/06/2 ... -in-eroge/ NSFW.

I fucking hate censorship as a matter of principle. This has gone way beyond the initial idea of merely banning hentai featuring rape and shit.

[MGuy]

Seems like a stupid thing to place a ban on a niche product like porn because of it being potentially offensive. What if, say homosexuals say that hetero sex is offensive? Then they ban sex in porn? Its fucking silly.

[Koumei]

...I don't know what some those terms are.

Reverse-rape (the reverse would surely be consensual?)
Girl (so man-on-man only now?)
Reverse-assault
TRAIN MOLESTATION

Yes, I know what train molestation is, but come on now, naming it like that sounds like someone sidling up to a train and having a bit of an old feel of the wheels.

And if reverse rape/assault simply means "the girl does it to the guy", I despair and the feminist in me wants to reverse assault them. Because that's just normal rape/assault, goddamn it. We're not victims by default.

I'd hope for it to be a massive failure, except the price of failure would be an increase in incidents of rape/assault.

[Titanium Dragon]

How is that the price of failure, exactly?

I hope for it to fail. Of course, I always hope for censorship anywhere to fail.

[Koumei]

Simple: if they implement this ban, there are more or less three possible results:

1) Rape/assault lowers in Japan. It doesn't even matter why, they will say "I'm making a note here: huge success". They won't examine cause and effect, so even if the reason is that Godzilla flattens Japan so there's no-one left there to perform such acts, they'll call it a success.

2) No real effect. They'll say "It just needs time", or possibly they'll declare "See? Look, Japan doesn't have much rape or sexual assault!" (and ignore that the same was true BEFORE the ban).

3) It increases dramatically enough to not fall under 2). So now they might have to admit they're wrong, but at the cost of rape and assault having increased.

[Meikle641]

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/04/1 ... -for-days/

Somehow I doubt he'll be getting counseling for it.

[Heath Robinson]

If you use the "Japan's rape rates are low" argument around someone who supports the ban they'll instantly respond with "Women in Japan don't report rapes". I believe that they'll use rape figures to justify the ban if they go down (look, rape incidence went down), but claim that increased rape figures mean that women in Japan are feeling empowered to report the rapes that were happening all along should they rise.

[Maj]

If you use the "Japan's rape rates are low" argument around someone who supports the ban they'll instantly respond with "Women in Japan don't report rapes". I believe that they'll use rape figures to justify the ban if they go down (look, rape incidence went down), but claim that increased rape figures mean that women in Japan are feeling empowered to report the rapes that were happening all along should they rise.

Yeah. I kind came to that conclusion when I first read the article. It sucks.

But I'd like to get back to the UN (not that I mind discussing hentai and censorship, but the reason I posted that particular link was because of the UN connection)...

What happens if Japan just tells the UN to go to hell? How/why is the UN even involved in this matter? What sort of authority does the UN have to be making this request?

[tzor]

What happens if Japan just tells the UN to go to hell?

Well there is the pouting, and the shouting, and the banging of podiums, and ... well look at all the resolutions driven by the pro-Arab lobby Israel has managed to blatantly flat out ignore all these decades.

The UN thinks it is important, but it is impotent.

[Crissa]

Yeah, I mean, killing hundreds of people and ghettoizing them is so hard to avoid doing, tzor.

Oh, wait, the US usually vetos those.

How is this worse? You haven't told us yet.

-Crissa

[Crissa]

it's a conspiracy theory that Republicans want to block health reform[/url]:]The GOP isn't that organized.

"...Democrats now want to move to this reconciliation measure, which would require only 51 votes to pass something in the Senate — I think this is very politically perilous..."

-Crissa

[MGuy]

Wow big mistake on Fox news's part. They let somebody with common sense say something.

[Crissa]

Umm, actually the GOP is planning on filibustering any bill, so that's just plain organizing... Most of the tax-protests and yelling at town hall meetings was organized and roused up by industry or Republican party sources directly. It's not like joe blow on the street would have shown up telling lies had no fox news and right-wing radio been spewing lies word for word from GOP and industry sources.

That's millions of dollars of advertising/lobbying; the insurance industry spent 20x more in the second quarter of this year on direct, lawmaker lobbying than all the groups who support health reform spent on all of their lobbying (no matter the issue) in 2008, an election year.

It is an organized, GOP conspiracy. With money and tax records and everything.

And bills are only supposed to need 51 votes to pass.

-Crissa

[MGuy]

Hmm in case I'm being misunderstood Let me add that I was referring to the part where the lady basically said: Its not a conspiracy because they tell you straight forward that they're doing it

[Crissa]

Actually, they don't if you ask them.

They say they're for reform, just not this reform. Protestors refuse to admit who told them to go. And when they do, you hear the same names over and over again...

-Crissa