The towers were hit with airplanes which exploded and then burned uncontrolled for hours.
You have a very strange definition of "fragile".
9/11 again again...
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PhoneLobster
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That's more fragile than many people would like.
And really that was more than it would take for many similar buildings to collapse.
And that minimal amount of whatever that would knock down such a building grows more and more minimal every year of it's life span, to the point that some of these may well start crumbling on their own within our lifetimes.
And really that was more than it would take for many similar buildings to collapse.
And that minimal amount of whatever that would knock down such a building grows more and more minimal every year of it's life span, to the point that some of these may well start crumbling on their own within our lifetimes.
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Absentminded_Wizard
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That's what seems to have happened. Now, because I didn't want to make a career out of this, I didn't check beyond the first page of the Google search results, but I can't find anything on Afghanistan that talks about government during Taliban rule other than to say, "The Taliban controlled the country."Crissa wrote: ...I'm very interested that all the information on Afghanistan prior 9/11 has been pretty much overwritten by modern occurrences. Anyhow, yes, that's how an Islamic Republic works. You have a civil government and a shadow Islamic government and then Islamic courts. It's not like our three-part government, as it's more like five major parts, with some having veto powers over others and some not having really any power at all yet expected to do all the deal-making.
If you're saying that the Bush administration unnecessarily killed civilian bureaucrats who could have helped rebuild the country, that sounds plausible. It goes right along with their "let's turn potential allies into enemies" de-Baathification policy in Iraq.
PhoneLobster: I think a bigger factor in the 9/11 conspiracy movement is that some people still really want to believe in a "Fortress America" that can only be undone from the inside.
Well, that and a little ethnocentrism. One recent C-SPAN caller was going on and on about how 9/11 couldn't possibly have been perpetrated by "a bunch of ignorant people hiding out in caves"or words to that effect. Never mind that Osama bin Laden had been a sophisticated businessman with some engineering training before joining the Afghan rebels. Or that most of the hijackers were disgruntled unemployed college graduates before joining al-Qaeda.
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CatharzGodfoot
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That shouldn't surprise anyone considering that engineers are more likely to become right-wing terrorists than any other profession.Absentminded_Wizard wrote:Never mind that Osama bin Laden had been a sophisticated businessman with some engineering training before joining the Afghan rebels. Or that most of the hijackers were disgruntled unemployed college graduates before joining al-Qaeda.
Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Structures change, technology changes, fuel loads and capacity changes but prior to 9/11 the standard for skyscrapers and really large airplanes came from the crash of a B-25 bomber into the Empire State Building. From the following site we can see the resulting damage, “The property damage was approximately $1 million dollars, but the building was repaired within three months.”NativeJovian wrote:The towers were hit with airplanes which exploded and then burned uncontrolled for hours.
You have a very strange definition of "fragile".
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NativeJovian
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There's a huge difference between a 40,000 lb airplane fueled for a trip from Massachusetts to New Jersey and a 400,000 lb airplane fueled for a trip from Boston to LA. The Boeing 767s that hit the Twin Towers were 10 times larger and carried fuel for a trip several times longer than the B-25 that hit the Empire State Building. Seriously, we're talking different orders of magnitude here. The two incidents are not comparable.
And as a matter of fact, partly in response to the B-25 incident, the Twin Towers were designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 -- a plane that, while half the size of the 767s that were actually used in the attacks, is still an order of magnitude larger than the B-25. And both towers still survived the impact! The only thing that caused them to collapse was the combination of the impact and the fire. The impact knocked some of the fireproofing off the structural elements, and ~35 tons of jet fuel (nearly twice the weight of an entire B-25!) burning uncontrollably weakened the load-bearing structures enough for the weight of the floors above the impact site to break them.
So yeah. The comparison between the two incidents is complete bullshit. Also worth noting: the towers lasted long enough for most of the people in them to escape, including even some in and above the impact zone in the south tower.
And as a matter of fact, partly in response to the B-25 incident, the Twin Towers were designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 -- a plane that, while half the size of the 767s that were actually used in the attacks, is still an order of magnitude larger than the B-25. And both towers still survived the impact! The only thing that caused them to collapse was the combination of the impact and the fire. The impact knocked some of the fireproofing off the structural elements, and ~35 tons of jet fuel (nearly twice the weight of an entire B-25!) burning uncontrollably weakened the load-bearing structures enough for the weight of the floors above the impact site to break them.
So yeah. The comparison between the two incidents is complete bullshit. Also worth noting: the towers lasted long enough for most of the people in them to escape, including even some in and above the impact zone in the south tower.
More people would have survived had they evacuated the buildings in a timely manner, including the North Tower, which was supposed to be evacuated when the other building was on fire anyhow.
Apparently there was a single stair that was working in the south tower, which would have saved those in the upper floors of that tower had it appropriate communications to tell them which stairs were damaged.
But even so, they stood long enough for everyone to leave. If anything, this tells us that water-based extinguishing systems are not sufficient to protect major structural elements.
-Crissa
Apparently there was a single stair that was working in the south tower, which would have saved those in the upper floors of that tower had it appropriate communications to tell them which stairs were damaged.
But even so, they stood long enough for everyone to leave. If anything, this tells us that water-based extinguishing systems are not sufficient to protect major structural elements.
-Crissa
Last edited by Crissa on Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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