The Divinity of Jesus: The Catholic Argument

[tzor]

Before flat out disagreeing, will you find a non-Christian(claiming) Republican?

Sure; he's Jewish; he sings in my barbershop chorus (he's a bartrone); he loves to organize quartets and he is a past chapter president of the chorus.

Now that I found him, what do you want me to do with him?

[Crissa]

shad, tzor believes in exceptionalism. Of course he knows an exception.

-Crissa

[CatharzGodfoot]

It's a commonly known fact that most popular Christmas music was written by Jews.

[Juton]

There are Republican supporters of every color, religion and orientation. It's just that the party isn't as inclusive as the Democrats.

So now we have that out of the way lets get back to the topic at hand.

[Ganbare Gincun]

There are Republican supporters of every color, religion and orientation.

You know what they say - there's a sucker born every minute!

[tzor]

shad, tzor believes in exceptionalism. Of course he knows an exception.

-Crissa

American exceptionalism refers to the theory that the United States occupies a special niche among the nations of the world in terms of its national credo, historical evolution, political and religious institutions and unique origins. The first description of the belief is attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville, who claimed that the then-50-year-old United States held a special place among nations, because it was a country of immigrants and the first modern democracy.

Why do you think I believe that, other than the fact that I happen to think Alexis de Tocqueville was a real nice intelligent Frenchman.

[tzor]

It's a commonly known fact that most popular Christmas music was written by Jews.

That's not true ... oh wait "Un flambeau, Jeannette, Isabelle" isn't popular these days, is it? "White Christmas" on the other hand is.

[Username17]

It's a commonly known fact that most popular Christmas music was written by Jews.

That's not true ... oh wait "Un flambeau, Jeannette, Isabelle" isn't popular these days, is it? "White Christmas" on the other hand is.

The Christmas Song (Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire)
Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer
Do They Know It's Christmas? (Feed the World)
Santa Baby
Holly Jolly Christmas
Santa Claus is Coming to Town
I'll Be Home for Christmas
Silver Bells
It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year
Sleigh Ride
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!
There's No Place Like Home for the Holidays
Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree
White Christmas

-Username17

[CatharzGodfoot]

I think Tzor was agreeing, with his offbeat sort of sarcasm.

[IGTN]

I think Tzor was agreeing, with his offbeat sort of sarcasm.

Hard to tell. For most of us, a statement completely at odds with known objective reality would be taken as sarcasm. With Tzor you really can't tell.

[shadzar]

shad, tzor believes in exceptionalism. Of course he knows an exception.

-Crissa

While I am sure people from any religious background can be EASILY deluded (well that is a rhetorical statement) to becoming a Republican...the point wa they both always ask for money.

I could have gone another way, like saying the high Christian could sell his home city, and have enough money from the sale and end world hunger....but even the Pope wouldn't be that humanitarian of because wealth equals power in Christianity....

That or he is deluded to think his status makes him think he too could fed the entire world with but 2 fish and a single loaf of bread, and that is why people die daily of starvation.....

Don't get me wrong the Bible is a nice book and all that with some good morals, and just about every subject from rape, sex, sodomy, love, etc in it; but I think for those things the US Health Care Reform bill would be a better read....or Playboy and a Harlequin Romance novel.

I have yet to see the movie that I agree with by Michael Moore...Capitalism, where he says better than I ever could about how Christians live for a capitalist society abandoning their morals for greed, one of the 7 deadly sins.

That was my basis behind the Republicans = Christians jab. I could have probably poked at Democrats instead, but kind of pissed at the RePubs right now. :/

[tzor]

Sell your city and you could feed the world, for a while, but then what? You still have hungry people and you are out of a city. We have whole governments that still pay people not to grow crops. Getting food that we can already grow and getting it to the people in need is why people die of hunger, not because we need mo’ money! You can’t solve everything by throwing money at it.

And to blatantly misquote the Bible, “let him without debt throw the first dollar.”

[Username17]

Sell your city and you could feed the world, for a while, but then what? You still have hungry people and you are out of a city. We have whole governments that still pay people not to grow crops. Getting food that we can already grow and getting it to the people in need is why people die of hunger, not because we need mo’ money! You can’t solve everything by throwing money at it.

And to blatantly misquote the Bible, “let him without debt throw the first dollar.”

Just a clarification: th reason that people starve is because oranges, once grown, are set on fire in order to keep from flooding the market and dropping the price to below what it costs to grow them. That is to say, simple supply and demand tells us that there has to be less food being sold than people want to eat or it becomes a "buyer's market" and the price bottoms out.

The price support structure we have in the US, where farmers get paid a pile of money regardless of whether they sell their crops, so it's "OK" for the price of wheat to fall below the cost of production - that actually keeps a lot more basic food on the market than pure capitalism would allow. Nevertheless, the system isn't a total replacement, and there is still enough food being withheld from sales to produce a profit maximization point.

"Every person who dies of malnutrition has been murdered."

Now... over and above that our food production system is rather razor's edge. We specialize in monoculture that is reliant upon proprietary and synthetic components. This means that there are a lot of points of vulnerability where our food production could fall suddenly and with little warning. Small changes in weather patterns could spell the doom of large areas of plants because they are all the same plants (and thus all fail together if you hit the magic levels of drought or flood). New pests or diseases could wipe out entire crop lines (because they are all genetically identical and have identical weaknesses). And corporate malfeasance or incompetence could simply leave us with no seed for a year or two.

But right now, the reason that people starve in Niger is because they have so little money that if food got given to them for what they had, the aggregate price of food stuffs would fall to the point where farmers would make much less money and be unable to maintain their own standard of living. Farmers would rather take a portion of their oats and burn them than sell them to the people of Niger for the relative pittance they can afford. And by the logic of capitalism, they are right to do that.

The solution to feeding more people is more government intervention, not less.

-Username17

[shadzar]

Sell your city and you could feed the world, for a while, but then what? You still have hungry people and you are out of a city. We have whole governments that still pay people not to grow crops. Getting food that we can already grow and getting it to the people in need is why people die of hunger, not because we need mo’ money! You can’t solve everything by throwing money at it.

And to blatantly misquote the Bible, “let him without debt throw the first dollar.”

You are falling prey to a screw-up the bible tells you of and warns about...then does...

The saying goes something along the lines of "Give a man a fish, and feed him for a day, teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime."

What was seen from the 2 fish 1 loaf (not to be confused with 2 girls 1 cup, no matter how full of shit they both are), was giving fish to feed for a day, which is what you are alluding to with the "for a while" bit. The Vatican could be sold to Goldman Sachs (or Oprah) for a summer home (The Pope still has a few other homes himself), and the money could be spent to put into place decent agriculture technology, as well help rebuild Haiti, New Orleans, and many other places struck with recent natural disasters.

So why isn't this done, because the hypocrisy and blatant bullshit and contradiction in the Christian system.

Help other so long as it doesn't bother you, and give them things when it make you look good, but don't lose anything yourself in the process.

The money could easily end world hunger for more than a while, if done right, but the Pope, like all other politicians, just likes to have money to spend. Only Elton John has a similar number of 24k gold clothes as the Pope now that Elvis and Liberace are dead.

I won't say governments in their greed are not to blame, but acting like the Pope would be bad off because he lived in a more modest and Christian home, than his own personal city with butlers and maids (the priests and nuns around him) would go a long way to showcase some of those Christian virtues and morale, rather than show off how to succumb to the 7 deadly sins.

Lust - The only person in the world with their own personal city, and wants more land for the Vatican?
Gluttony - Why is every Pope fat, and you ever see a skinny one? Must be eating pretty good!
Greed - You own fucking city!
Sloth - Pope Mobile. Try walking you lazy fuck!
Wrath - Well he forgave the bipolar lady...but I am sure he got pissed off at a chef for making his eggs Benedict Arnold wrong one morning.
Envy - Popes come from the biggest line of envious people that want to be the pope, so i doubt that has ben done away with when you become the pope.
Pride - Another term for vanity. Have you ever seen the pope wearing dirty clothes? I mean how often does he change clothes? You wouldn't see him wear the same thing all day.

The pope is the furthest thing of a good example for his faith than you could get.

I think George puts the concept I mentioned earlier into perspective, that all religion is, is a system to control stupid people and take from them for yourself. Very much what the Pharaoh did prior to them being put into the same position by someone new in the way of the 10 Commandments handed down form Moses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkRYaMiP4K8

I bet the Vatican does the same in the way of crops and preventing them form being grown or having them destroyed as any other government or politician does as you mention.

[Ganbare Gincun]

I bet the Vatican does the same in the way of crops and preventing them form being grown or having them destroyed as any other government or politician does as you mention.

Given their history, I'd say that the modern Catholic Church wouldn't bat an eye at the prospect of people dying in droves because they wanted to make a profit.