Congratulations!

[Neeeek]

The first is the “free market” – we need to open up the health insurance system to more competition, not less, through the ability of insurance companies to cross state lines...

Like cell phone companies?

Actually I was thinking more like auto insurance - you know that gecco fellow?

You are under the grossly mistaken impression that auto insurance isn't regulated on the state level?

[violence in the media]

And I think certain levels simply would not be covered; orthodontics and stuff like that; just the basic stuff so you don't get a second mortgage because you had to visit the emergency room and wound up with a stay with surgery.

Why limit it? It isn't like the U.S. government isn't already covering boob jobs.

[Crissa]

Or that auto insurance is anything like health insurance.

1. Not everyone owns a car.
2. Car insurance doesn't usually pay for maintenance or repair.
3. Cars repairs can be put on hold indefinitely.
4. You can go without a car.
5. Cars can be totaled and replaced for cash.

1. Everyone has a health.
2. Health insurance pays for maintenance and repair.
3. Healthcare deteriorates rapidly when put on hold.
4. You can't go without health; without health there's no earning, no earnings mean no cash, no cash means no paying for insurance or repair!
5. Do you really want insurance companies saying 'well, that's it, replacing your heart will cost more than your lifetime earnings, so here's a lump sum, byebye?'

-Crissa

[Cielingcat]

Do you really want insurance companies saying 'well, that's it, replacing your heart will cost more than your lifetime earnings, so here's a lump sum, byebye?'[/list]

-Crissa

I'd wager that they do, in fact, want that.

[Crissa]

I'd wager that they do, in fact, want that.

Maybe. But what happens in the real world is that they just send a rescission order and a bill for the remainder of grandma's end of life care.

And the teabaggers whine about death panels.

Except, there already are death panels. They get paid hundreds of millions of dollars in personal take-home pay.

-Crissa

[violence in the media]

Do you really want insurance companies saying 'well, that's it, replacing your heart will cost more than your lifetime earnings, so here's a lump sum, byebye?'[/list]

-Crissa

I'd wager that they do, in fact, want that.

I doubt that, as such a thing would potentially involve transferring money to poor people. No true conservative wants that; evidence of it being in their economic best interest be damned.

[tzor]

You are under the grossly mistaken impression that auto insurance isn't regulated on the state level?

Sure, but you can still buy auto insurance from a company in another state. You can't do that with health insurance.

The Competition Cure Wall Street Journal

Let insurance companies compete across U.S. Chicago Tribune

Right now, the U.S. does not have a national market for health insurance. It has 50 separate state markets. Erecting walls around each state means less competition and higher prices for consumers. There’s not even one market for the Chicago area. If you live in South Holland or Calumet City, your insurance options could be completely different from your Indiana neighbors in Hammond or Merrillville. What sense does that make?

The easiest way to see how insurance competition benefits consumers is to look at auto insurance. That’s a huge, nationwide market and companies compete intensively for a share of it. Some stress their low prices, others customer service, whatever gives them an edge in the marketplace. Geico and Progressive have been especially aggressive in touting cost savings. State Farm and Allstate certainly compete on price, but they stress service after an accident. That’s why Allstate says “you’re in good hands,” and State Farm says it will be there “like a good neighbor.” Other companies, like SafeAuto, focus on drivers who want only minimum coverage to meet state license requirements. In short, auto insurance companies compete vigorously to provide what different consumers want, and they tell them so in national advertisements. Life insurance companies do the same thing. There are even companies that specialize in comparing policies for customers. Competition drives down excess profits and means better, cheaper options for consumers.

Ever see an ad touting health insurance?

[tzor]

You can go without a car.

Ha ha
Ha ha ha
Ha ha ha ha

Oh wait, you don't live on Long Island, a place where people often make 50 mile one way commutes and the only reliable public transportation is to and from NYC and even then it probably takes you 10 miles to get to the nearest train station.

Do you really want insurance companies saying 'well, that's it, replacing your heart will cost more than your lifetime earnings, so here's a lump sum, byebye?'

You mean when they "total" your body? I thought that was a part of the public option; only without the lump sum.

"I'm sorry, we've decided not to give you this treatment, we need to give the money to a younger model with fewer miles on it. I'm afraid its off to the junkyard for you!"

[RiotGearEpsilon]

I also voted for Coakley, more out of reflexive NO REPUBLICANS AUGH than any sort of deep, rational thought.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

"I'm sorry, we've decided not to give you this treatment, we need to give the money to a younger model with fewer miles on it. I'm afraid its off to the junkyard for you!"

Well, that's basically what insurance companies do right now anyway.

[Neeeek]

"I'm sorry, we've decided not to give you this treatment, we need to give the money to a younger model with fewer miles on it. I'm afraid its off to the junkyard for you!"

Well, that's basically what insurance companies do right now anyway.

Only they get bonuses for denying claims.

[Crissa]

Oh wait, you don't live on Long Island, a place where people often make 50 mile one way commutes and the only reliable public transportation is to and from NYC and even then it probably takes you 10 miles to get to the nearest train station.

No. I've lived in towns with as much square footage as lower manhattan with the population less than your neighborhood.

You've got trains and busses and livery companies and rentals and bicycle lanes and street lights and sidewalks.

In other words, you're just fucking lying and lazy.

You mean when they "total" your body? I thought that was a part of the public option; only without the lump sum.

"I'm sorry, we've decided not to give you this treatment, we need to give the money to a younger model with fewer miles on it. I'm afraid its off to the junkyard for you!"

Funny. Haha.

Oh, wait, you're totally misinformed about the HCR bill. So anything you say on the subject is anti-related to reality.

-Crissa

[tzor]

You've got trains and busses and livery companies and rentals and bicycle lanes and street lights and sidewalks.

Trains: "The Wading River Branch of the Long Island Rail Road was eventually abandoned on March 20th 1939" Yes, we have trains. It is 11 miles to the Port Jefferson Station and 23 miles to the Ronkonkoma station. That can get you into NYC, but if you don't want to go there you are shit out of luck.

Busses: Here is the Suffolk County Bus System (Large file): Oh look I have a bus line. One bus line. I can take it to the Port Jefferson Station. There is a bus every hour and it takes 30 minutes to get to the station. (The Port Jefferson train takes 2 hours into Pen Station with a change at Huntington - compare with the Ronkonkoma train that takes 1:20 with no changes required.)

On the other hand if I need to go south, I'm SOL.

Walk Score: 42 out of 100 — Car-Dependent

Yes the state highway has a bike lane, but not the other streets. There are no sidewalks at all, not even in the developments.

[tzor]

You mean when they "total" your body? I thought that was a part of the public option; only without the lump sum.

"I'm sorry, we've decided not to give you this treatment, we need to give the money to a younger model with fewer miles on it. I'm afraid its off to the junkyard for you!"

Funny. Haha.

Oh, wait, you're totally misinformed about the HCR bill. So anything you say on the subject is anti-related to reality.

Was I talking about the HCR bill? I thought I was talking about the words of the Holy one himself. EDITORIAL: Obama's health care rationing Washington Times

In an interview published by the New York Times on Tuesday, Mr. Obama continued by saying the need for honest brokers "certainly [is] true when it comes to Medicare and Medicaid, where the taxpayers are footing the bill and we have an obligation to get those costs under control." Some would say that is exactly the problem with government-run health care: Considerations of cost come before care, and sometimes rules before reason.

It's a scary picture the president paints. He stated that "the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here." For them, he said, "I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels."

[Crissa]

That's not a direct quote. It's out of context.

That's called, 'an editorial' for a reason.

Idiot.

They are very specifically talking about speaking to someone about making a living will, and choosing treatment based upon not just raw dead-husk survival, but actually being functional or having high brain functions.

If you want to spend the rest of your life with terminal cancer awake or in a coma. Why don't physicians and patients talk about it, instead of just choosing 'coma' and making relatives pay for it?

-Crissa

Strangely, that quote is talking about two entirely different things, so they're not entirely related. And both come directly from Republican additions to the HCR bill.

And you're complaining about having a bus or train every hour? Like I said: Lazy and incompetent. You had better not be seriously talking about not wanting to go to NYC, which gets you to every other city without a car to someone west of the Rockies. Thirty minutes. Piker.

[Neeeek]

You are under the grossly mistaken impression that auto insurance isn't regulated on the state level?

Sure, but you can still buy auto insurance from a company in another state. You can't do that with health insurance.

If they measure up the regulations for the state. There are major national auto insurance companies that do not operate in CA because they don't like CA regulations. The effective difference is mostly cosmetic.

Right now, the U.S. does not have a national market for health insurance. It has 50 separate state markets. Erecting walls around each state means less competition and higher prices for consumers. There’s not even one market for the Chicago area. If you live in South Holland or Calumet City, your insurance options could be completely different from your Indiana neighbors in Hammond or Merrillville. What sense does that make?

The easiest way to see how insurance competition benefits consumers is to look at auto insurance. That’s a huge, nationwide market and companies compete intensively for a share of it. Some stress their low prices, others customer service, whatever gives them an edge in the marketplace. Geico and Progressive have been especially aggressive in touting cost savings. State Farm and Allstate certainly compete on price, but they stress service after an accident. That’s why Allstate says “you’re in good hands,” and State Farm says it will be there “like a good neighbor.” Other companies, like SafeAuto, focus on drivers who want only minimum coverage to meet state license requirements. In short, auto insurance companies compete vigorously to provide what different consumers want, and they tell them so in national advertisements. Life insurance companies do the same thing. There are even companies that specialize in comparing policies for customers. Competition drives down excess profits and means better, cheaper options for consumers.

Ever see an ad touting health insurance?

That's the stupidest thing I've read today. Health insurance companies don't advertise much because most Americans get their health insurance through their work, parents, or school. You better believe that brochures and pamphlets are mailed to the people health insurance companies have found that don't fall into any of those categories.

They don't advertise because their consumers don't have a choice on what they get. Instead they advertise directly to HR departments, the people who actually determine what everyone else in their company gets.

[Crissa]

Yeah, choices like, 'We could pay $20,000 on the individual market or $9,000 through Sammi's workplace.' And even that is fraught with difficult choices like, 'they did something to grease the palm of HR, so we have to change plans this year. Whoops! They don't have any hospitals on this side of the Bay. What An Oversight.'

-Crissa

[Draco_Argentum]

"I'm sorry, we've decided not to give you this treatment, we need to give the money to a younger model with fewer miles on it. I'm afraid its off to the junkyard for you!"

Well, that's basically what insurance companies do right now anyway.

Only they get bonuses for denying claims.

Why does anyone even make this point against socialised health care? At least the government department can be relied on to spend every cent of their budget so they don't get it cut next year. Insurance companies make more money the less health care they actually provide. Especially true in the US system where you get insurance through work so crap customer service won't even loose much business.

[Psychic Robot]

I'd like to thank the people of Massachusetts for electing a Republican to the Senate and effectively dooming any chance at health care reform in the United States during this administration. Good job, guys! I for one can't wait to go into bankruptcy or have my coverage dropped as soon as I come down with a major illness, and I'm sure you'll all be equally thrilled once you acquire an equally life-threatening condition.

Thy tears are sweet.

[Cielingcat]

Didn't you make a long and involved "I'M LEAVING HERE 4EVAR GAIZ SRSLY UR SUCH JERKS!" post? Could you maybe act on it, and not be here, being the exact thing you said made you leave? Because that would be cool.

And Draco, I think their point is the same as the point of a commercial I saw on CNN yesterday. The point of that commercial was in fact to throw out blatant fearmongering lies about the opposition (in this case the UK, the lies being that they deny coverage to everyone above 60), and then claim the Republicans are defending the magical insurance industry, which would totes never do that.

[Draco_Argentum]

Probably, its not like you can tell the truth about their policy and convince anyone.

[The Lunatic Fringe]

I'd like to thank the people of Massachusetts for electing a Republican to the Senate and effectively dooming any chance at health care reform in the United States during this administration. Good job, guys! I for one can't wait to go into bankruptcy or have my coverage dropped as soon as I come down with a major illness, and I'm sure you'll all be equally thrilled once you acquire an equally life-threatening condition.

Thy tears are sweet.

This is not funny. Real people are dying and your fashionable apathy just makes you seem like a dick.

[Kaelik]

This is not funny. Real people are dying and your fashionable apathy just makes you seem like a dick.

You must not be familiar with PR. The reason he seems like a dick is because he is a dick.

[Psychic Robot]

CielingCat is correct. I should have not made that comment; I let my lesser nature get the better of me. My apologies.