[4e] Those lying liars.

[Koumei]

There's already a Basic version of 4E with simplified rules, and is more fun:

[souran]

Releasing a new edition of an rpg game in 3 or 4 years is not unheard of.

I'm wondering how long it'll take until Warhammer 3rd folds up. That game was touted as a revolution in roleplaying and 1 month post-release it basically dropped off the radar from all major online fora. 4E at least gets discussed widely if not played widely, but Warhammer 3rd seems to have been stillborn.

Really, its not a great time for RPGs right now. The three largest game systems (D&D, GURPS, Storyteller) are all basically hemmoraging money.

Steve Jackson Games basicaly supports a dead game system by publishing beer and pretzels games, but my FLGS says that they won't buy any more "Munchkin in INSERT ANYTHING HERE" boxes because they are not selling any more.

Last I heard White Wolf might not have enough Cash to make it through the end of the year.

Wizards is playing games with their releases and they dropped the star wars licence which for classically is indistinguishable from a licence to print money.

I have also heard that Shadowrun 4 has been disapointing to longtime fans?

But for WFRP your dead on. Nobody stocks it, its own forum is dead. Its really wierd. Then again, WFRP is like the hard luck gaming system, it seems to lose its publisher or get an overhaul just when its players are most HAPPY as opposed to anything based on sales numbers or years of bloat.

[ggroy]

[Wesley Street]

I have also heard that Shadowrun 4 has been disapointing to longtime fans?

Depends on who you talk to. My impression (which could be misguided/misinformed) is that for every pissed player who quits the game, he's replaced by a new one. I think this is in part to a recent mass exodus of Vampire players looking for a new game and in part due to people like me who played it years ago and then picked it up again recently with the promise of "streamlined" rules.

I freelance for Catalyst and, from what I can tell, production does seem to have ramped up from a recent slump.

Red Brick is also cranking out Earthdawn material on a pretty regular basis for a small publisher.

It's premature to say but we might be looking at the demise of the "big name publishers" but they have no one to blame for that but themselves.

[Meikle641]

There's already a Basic version of 4E with simplified rules, and is more fun:

Holy crap, I think I actually have that game. Never played it, though. Any good?

[virgil]

I loved playing that game when I was a kid, and I only wish I still have it to play it now.

[Jilocasin]

There's already a Basic version of 4E with simplified rules, and is more fun:

Holy crap, I think I actually have that game. Never played it, though. Any good?

I recall bugging my parents to play it with me when I was little and no friends were available. Actually this makes me want to dig it out and see if it's still fun.

[A Man In Black]

Holy crap, I think I actually have that game. Never played it, though. Any good?

Ban weapons that let you attack diagonally or allow at least some monsters to attack diagonally, or every fight is a clusterfuck at the doorway where monsters step up to get owned by 3 PCs one by one.

(What can I say, I broke Hero Quest as a kid.)

[Jilocasin]

I'm pretty sure that for a kid, roflstomping monsters pretty much all of the time is a large part of what makes a game like that fun.

[Ganbare Gincun]

Orcs At The Gate is also pretty cool. It's a broken game, but easily fixable.

[Psychic Robot]

I'm wondering how long it'll take until Warhammer 3rd folds up. That game was touted as a revolution in roleplaying and 1 month post-release it basically dropped off the radar from all major online fora. 4E at least gets discussed widely if not played widely, but Warhammer 3rd seems to have been stillborn.

Warhammer 3e took everything awesome about Warhammer 2e and dumped on it. 3e basically attempts to emulate D&D 4e with stupid crap like "power cards," and then it has a wacky dice pool and $100 price tag on top of that. I lost interest completely after about ten minutes of reading about it.

[RobbyPants]

There's already a Basic version of 4E with simplified rules, and is more fun:

Holy crap, I think I actually have that game. Never played it, though. Any good?

I was just looking at that on my shelf yesterday, too. I love that game. About five years ago, I added a new layer of rules that separated race and class, added more of each, and a few other things. Initial playtests showed that it still needed some work, but I never got around to it...

I also got Warhammer Quest which is similar in many ways, but contains the potential for a much more complicated game. Basically, it's insanely lethal hack-n-slash.

[shadzar]

There's already a Basic version of 4E with simplified rules, and is more fun:

When you throw in things Like Morcar's Magiers, and a few other expansion packs, you also have a better adventure and mini line of products.

Anybody have any extra Chaos Warlocks, by the way so I don't have to keep using WFB minis? A few extra skeletons and orcs wouldn't hurt either.

For those looking to get a copy or wanting to throw one out they sell for about $200 seald on eBay, and roughly $80 is everything is intact.

Hasbro cannot release a new one without GW permission, and NO WAY IN HELL GW will give the owner of their biggest tabletop competitor (D&D) and help with anything.

Hell GW re-release Space Hulk for like $100 just recently.

Shame this game got canned, because it could dominate over Hero Scape or whatever that crap is now with its pre-painted plastics.

[Username17]

True story: the designer of HeroQuest is Stephen Baker, who went on to design HeroScape, which is a similar concept but with hexagonal tiles. In any case, Milton Bradley is now owned by Hasbro, which in turn owns Wizards of the Coast.

And yes, you can probably guess where this is going.

TL;DR: HeroQuest as a D&D stand-in is not even a joke. The latest version seriously has a D&D flavored skin or it, complete with Drow and shit.

-Username17

[Koumei]

...awesome. Yet it's sad that it can't simply be a snide joke. Still, I can honestly say I'd rather play Hero Quest (and presumably Hero Scape) than 4E. From the sounds of it, others here would agree.

[RobbyPants]

Well, yeah. You get the same lack of immersion in from the board game or 4E, but one is cheaper, sets up quicker, and people take less seriously.

People don't care if their darkfire can open the ice door because it's a board game and they aren't thinking that way. It's like 4E wanted to be a board game, a CCG, and try to sell a dozen books all at the same time!

[mean_liar]

I cannot stress enough how awesome Warhammer Quest is with the right crowd. It really is nothing but endless hack-and-slash, and done entertainingly. Like every game it needs some tweaking (some classes are shit, others are great, nothing new there) but really, for mindless killing and intra-party competition and at least some modicum of tactical combat it's the cat's pajamas.

[RobbyPants]

Yeah, one thing I like about WHQ is literally collecting minis of your kills when you run a barbarian so you can track your Berserk ability.

It runs quickly and is fairly simple, once you get used to that stupid lookup table.

[A Man In Black]

TL;DR: HeroQuest as a D&D stand-in is not even a joke. The latest version seriously has a D&D flavored skin or it, complete with Drow and shit.

Not quite. Heroscape has a CCG-like model, with core sets and expansion packs with semi-random contents. They also do fixed sets, often with odd licenses or unusual themes, like a Marvel set. So it's less that the latest version of Heroscape had a D&D skin than that they released a boxed set with D&D on the cover and a bunch of reuses of D&D Minis molds on Heroscape bases.

It's more of a cheap tie-in than a rebranding.

[souran]

Holy crap, I think I actually have that game. Never played it, though. Any good?

Ban weapons that let you attack diagonally or allow at least some monsters to attack diagonally, or every fight is a clusterfuck at the doorway where monsters step up to get owned by 3 PCs one by one.

(What can I say, I broke Hero Quest as a kid.)

Or just don't be stupid and have your monsters step into that trap. Also if you play such that Zargon (the name of the game master) can move monsters that are not yet activiated and just mark it on the adventure sheet the game is a lot better for him.


Here we actually get to the reason I like 4e. 4e is heroquest with the right amount of other stuff to be a full rpg.

It has rules for all doing the creative "you describe" type rpg game stuff while still focusing on the your going to go into the "dungeon and fight the dragon" core aspect of dnd.

So, yeah, I am a 4e defender BECAUSE I like that 4e is upgunned heroquest.

[Psychic Robot]

4e is heroquest with the right amount of other stuff to be a full rpg.

Oh, dear.

[A Man In Black]

Or just don't be stupid and have your monsters step into that trap. Also if you play such that Zargon (the name of the game master) can move monsters that are not yet activiated and just mark it on the adventure sheet the game is a lot better for him.

They can't avoid it. PCs can attack at range and monsters (mostly) can't, so an unassailable defensive position is a gamewinner for Team PC. There are lots of house rules to work around the issue, of course, but it's not something you can play around within the rules.

[Koumei]

Also if you play such that Zargon (the name of the game master)

YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU WHORE! HIS NAME IS MORCAR!

(I'm aware the name was changed between countries, where US gets Zargon and Europe/Australia get Morcar. But this is the Internet, and HQ is serious business.)

[Kaelik]

4e is heroquest with the right amount of other stuff to be a full rpg.

It has rules for all doing the creative "you describe" type rpg game stuff

Yeah, like cast awesome spells that let you teleport, or manufacture a castle, or have dragon senses, or make it rain...

Oh wait, nevermind, it doesn't have any of that.

[souran]

Or just don't be stupid and have your monsters step into that trap. Also if you play such that Zargon (the name of the game master) can move monsters that are not yet activiated and just mark it on the adventure sheet the game is a lot better for him.

They can't avoid it. PCs can attack at range and monsters (mostly) can't, so an unassailable defensive position is a gamewinner for Team PC. There are lots of house rules to work around the issue, of course, but it's not something you can play around within the rules.

PC's can't attack around corners with ranged weapons either. If PC's use a door as a blocking mechanism just have the monsters all gather in one room thats away from where the pcs are. There are no rules requireing the pcs or the monsters to fight stupidly.

Most of the adventures require the players to go somewhere or get something and return to the starting room. Have the Monsters move to where they get to use the doors to fight the pcs.

Not that the game is not very abusable. Once the party has one or two of the magic items and enough money that they have armor and weapons beyond the starting stuff its really done before it begins.