From Arizona to Pacific Asian American History

[Username17]

Well, if you happen to be in Arizona for whatever reason, you should learn english from those people who have learned english well enough to not have a pronounced accent. Those people are almost certainly all hispanic, because people who learned english in Arizona as a native language usually have an Arizonan accent, whatever the fuck that is.

No.

Arizona has several accents, and there isn't any person in Arizona who doesn't have an accent of some kind. What they are doing is defining certain kinds of Arizona White-people accents as "not accents" and certain kinds of Arizona Hispanic accents as "unacceptable." And yes, that's racist.

If you define one group of people who live in your area as "normal" and another group of people who also live in your area as not, then chances are you're being racist. Or sexist, or classist, or whatever - depending upon the vagueries of how you define the group that is unacceptable.

In this case, where it is as simple and blatant as "White Accents Good, Hispanic Accents Bad" then Racism is probably the correct charge. Unless you want to get into the argument that Hispanics include both Whites and Native Americans, and it is thus a pretty weird racial classification and always has been. But the people who are trying to drive Mexicans out of teaching positions consider Hispanic to be a race, so the term fits.

-Username17

[Crissa]

Also, it is not that whites don't score well or aren't allowed in the latino clubs. This isn't segregation.

-Crissa

[Kaelik]

Also, it is not that whites don't score well or aren't allowed in the latino clubs. This isn't segregation.

Well whites could ride in the back of the bus if they wanted. Or ride in black train cars.

It is segregation. It's just that incompetent powerless officials are trying to fix it by targeting the wrong group for forced integration.

No.

Arizona has several accents, and there isn't any person in Arizona who doesn't have an accent of some kind. What they are doing is defining certain kinds of Arizona White-people accents as "not accents" and certain kinds of Arizona Hispanic accents as "unacceptable." And yes, that's racist.

Actually, yes, because what I said is "should" and was not talking about what is happening.

But as for what is happening, you have no actual evidence that they are doing that at all, and are just deducing that as likely from the fact that other parts of the Arizona state government are acting in racist ways.

However, even these hypothetical "unacceptable" accents are only unacceptable in teaching ESL children. They are still acceptable for teaching other children.

[Orion]

Kaelik,

That's still all kinds of stupid. ESL children should ideally have bilingual teachers, most of whom will have strong accents.

Also: Do you seriously believe that ethnic studies programs had been advocated the overthrow of the US up until the passage of this law? Pics or it didn't happen.

[Neeeek]

Arizona has several accents, and there isn't any person in Arizona who doesn't have an accent of some kind.

Hell, you don't even need to narrow it to Arizona for that to be true. EVERYONE has an accent. Mine (and yours) happens to be the one they use on TV when they aren't giving someone a specific accent, but that's just another accent. I remember meeting an elderly couple from Seattle when I was in Malaysia. They had me pegged as being from California in a couple minutes.

Hell, the old saying about what English does to other languages seems appropriate here.

English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark allies, knocks them over, and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.

[Kaelik]

Kaelik,

That's still all kinds of stupid. ESL children should ideally have bilingual teachers, most of whom will have strong accents.

1) Depending on their level of commitment and education, bilingual teachers may actually hamper their learning of english. And this does only apply to english education.

2) A lot of ESL children are chinese kids who are relatively well versed in english, but still behind. Maybe not in most parts of Arizona, but those people don't benefit at all from bilingual teachers because bilingual means English and Spanish. And while I don't think they would actually lose out on much from the accent, some people might legitamately claim they do.

3) Yes, their law is all kinds of stupid if what they are doing is preventing people with hispanic accents from teaching esl classes.

Also: Do you seriously believe that ethnic studies programs had been advocated the overthrow of the US up until the passage of this law? Pics or it didn't happen.

Did you see me claim that ethnic studies programs have been advocating the overthrow of the US? What does that have to do with stupidity vs racism as motivation.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Also, it is not that whites don't score well or aren't allowed in the latino clubs. This isn't segregation.

Well whites could ride in the back of the bus if they wanted. Or ride in black train cars.

Whites who violate segregation are often harassed and assaulted by police and sometimes their peers, although not as badly as Blacks are.

Anecdotal sources.

[Cielingcat]

Oh look, Ceiling Cat is all butthurt because I called his transexual desires equivalent to a tattoo or any other cosmetic feelings, instead of his "soul's inner desire" so now he's lying about shit to discredit me on the internet. How cute.

Dude, I even quoted you. I know you're just a raging jackass, but even and especially here, insulting and disrespecting people doesn't take the place of a real argument.

And for the record, I've hated you long before that, because you're constantly a raging racist, sexist jackass whose only shticks are insulting people and telling minorities to fuck off. To the point where you say every instance of discrimination isn't really discrimination, and then you add the bullshit excuse of "but it'd be totally bad if it was!"

[Ganbare Gincun]

LSU Professor: Mr. Rogers Is Evil

Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual, students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra points needed to lift their grades to A's.

"They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers."

I'm glad we have a Professor of Finance on hand to provide us with this "expert" sociological insight!
Even Fox News doesn't quite know how to process this tripe.

[ubernoob]

Oh look, Ceiling Cat is all butthurt because I called his transexual desires equivalent to a tattoo or any other cosmetic feelings, instead of his "soul's inner desire" so now he's lying about shit to discredit me on the internet. How cute.

Dude, I even quoted you. I know you're just a raging jackass, but even and especially here, insulting and disrespecting people doesn't take the place of a real argument.

And for the record, I've hated you long before that, because you're constantly a raging racist, sexist jackass whose only shticks are insulting people and telling minorities to fuck off. To the point where you say every instance of discrimination isn't really discrimination, and then you add the bullshit excuse of "but it'd be totally bad if it was!"

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between thinking 95% of the world is retarded and needs to die in a fire and being racist/sexist.

[Kaelik]

Dude, I even quoted you.

No, you didn't.

You claimed that I said that they shouldn't teach about Indians, even though I didn't.

You claimed that I oppose abortion, even though I don't and have never said anything like that, and a five year old level reading comprehension could figure that out from reading the thread you refered to.

Those are lies, not quotes. When you calim I say something, it doesn't make it a quote unless I actually say something, and then you have to fucking put it in quotes and use my exact words.

But since my exact words were "More abortions are a good thing." that would completely undermine your bullshit lies about me being sexist.

[Crissa]

And you'll note that the ethnic studies groups are being cancelled for the exact reason black only schools are. It may not be a wise choice. It may not be an informed choice. But to cast it as racist is only a symptom of your paranoia.

This is bullshit, Kaelik. Stop insulting Ceilingcat and get back to your own bullshit.

They aren't being cancelled because they can't be integrated. The law specifically says that ethnic studies cannot be taught. Black schools weren't even closed in integration. And the law says why they can't be taught... Either you agree with the statement in the law, or you don't. You can't agree with the law and ignore its intent when it's written into the law.

Well whites could ride in the back of the bus if they wanted. Or ride in black train cars.

No the fucking couldn't. Mississippi fucking Burning.

Look it up. Learn your history, stop repeating it.

Your statement shows such an extreme level of intentional goalpost moving that it's not even possible to argue with. You might was well be saying 'the sky is dirt'.

You can't have it both ways where you get to troll and then get off scott free because you insult someone and derail the conversation.

-Crissa

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between thinking 95% of the world is retarded and needs to die in a fire and being racist/sexist.

There is, but Kaelik likes insults so much he uses the sexist and racist phrases and then says he can't be racist or sexist because ultimately he supports feminism/equality or whatnot. If you shave your head and Heil Hitler, it's just not funny.

[Orion]

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between thinking 95% of the world is retarded and needs to die in a fire and being racist/sexist.

No.

[ubernoob]

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between thinking 95% of the world is retarded and needs to die in a fire and being racist/sexist.

No.

So, you would you consider me racist/sexist? Because Kaelik and I pretty much agree 100% on who needs to die in a fire. He just happens to be more vocal about it.

[Crissa]

Racism and sexism is a how, not specifically who. Yes, it's racist to say 'all blacks need to die' or sexist to say 'all women should be in the kitchen'. But there are other things which are also racist or sexist.

It's a false dichotomy to indicate that the only true racist or sexist positions are those which are the most gross or blatant.

-Crissa

[Calibron]

Racism and sexism is a how, not specifically who. Yes, it's racist to say 'all blacks need to die' or sexist to say 'all women should be in the kitchen'. But there are other things which are also racist or sexist.

It's a false dichotomy to indicate that the only true racist or sexist positions are those which are the most gross or blatant.

-Crissa

It's also an excellent example of the golden mean fallacy.

[Kaelik]

This is bullshit, Kaelik. Stop insulting Ceilingcat and get back to your own bullshit.

I'm not even really insulting him at all. Just calling him on his lies, which happen to be the only thing he has posted recently. I'm not even adding in the personal attacks I could. Fuck, I even implied that he has above fifth grade reading level when I could have asked rhetorically if he was lying or stupid, instead of assuming he wasn't that stupid.

You want to get mad at me about what I said, fine, but don't get mad at me for "shirking my responsibility" when I've already posted on twice since the post you quoted about the subject in question.

They aren't being cancelled because they can't be integrated. The law specifically says that ethnic studies cannot be taught. Black schools weren't even closed in integration. And the law says why they can't be taught...

Hey dumbshit. Segregation discussions were about Hispanic teachers teaching Hispanic students English while White teachers teach white children English. Not about Ethnic Studies classes.

Either you agree with the statement in the law, or you don't. You can't agree with the law and ignore its intent when it's written into the law.

But since I never claimed that I agree with the law in the first place. This has no bearing on the conversation whatsoever.

No the fucking couldn't. Mississippi fucking Burning.

Yes, because one event in one of the most retarded and racists states automatically generalizes to everything ever.

Your statement shows such an extreme level of intentional goalpost moving that it's not even possible to argue with. You might was well be saying 'the sky is dirt'.

Yeah, I mean, fuck me. How dare I claim that segregation occurs when two races/genders/species are apart from each other, and associate primarily with their own group.

Segregation only occurs when it's written in the laws and enforced by crazy linchers and burners. It never happens because of underlying social issues that exist even without bad laws.

You can't have it both ways where you get to troll and then get off scott free because you insult someone and derail the conversation.

Fuck you Crissa, stop being retarded. I didn't insult someone to derail the conversation. Ceiling Cat decided to ninja in and start blabbing about how I oppose abortion because I am sexist.

I'm not diverting the conversation. Go bitch at someone else.

There is, but Kaelik likes insults so much he uses the sexist and racist phrases and then says he can't be racist or sexist because ultimately he supports feminism/equality or whatnot. If you shave your head and Heil Hitler, it's just not funny.

1) Go ahead and directly quote me with a link to my post of me insulting someone using sexist or racist phrases. Or is backing up your shit just as hard for you as it always is?

2) Hypothetically saying you find something where I call someone a filthy Jew fucker or whatever it is you think I use as an insult; how the fuck does that even remotely make me a fucking racist for in the midst of hundreds of insults a day occasionally using a racist/sexist phrase? I mean, is Frank a Sexist because one time he said something that if you turn it sideways could totally be an insult to women?

3) (Ignoring Feminism, because Feminism is done wrong as much as it is done right, so I can hardly support anything by that name without a heavy list of qualifiers.) Yes, if I support equality, or even don't support it, but don't actually treat people different based on race, that does in fact mean that I am not racist. Because that is the only way to not be racist, is to not treat people differently/worse because of race.

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between thinking 95% of the world is retarded and needs to die in a fire and being racist/sexist.

No.

rac·ism   [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Hey look. Turns out, you are wrong, and the answer was in fact "yes."

Racism and sexism is a how, not specifically who. Yes, it's racist to say 'all blacks need to die' or sexist to say 'all women should be in the kitchen'. But there are other things which are also racist or sexist.

It's a false dichotomy to indicate that the only true racist or sexist positions are those which are the most gross or blatant.

No, Racism is in fact a who. You can tell by the fucking definition. It is not racist if I hate you, because I do not hate you because of your race. I hate you because you are a fucking retard who thinks that everything is racist/sexist.

[Crissa]

I'm not even really insulting him at all.

Hey dumbshit.

Fuck you Crissa, stop being retarded

Go bitch at someone else.

Feminism is done wrong as much as it is done right

Hey dumbshit. Segregation discussions were about Hispanic teachers teaching Hispanic students English while White teachers teach white children English. Not about Ethnic Studies classes.

Who said any of those things? I see no one but you making that claim. It's not in the law as passed, it's not in the news articles I've seen, and it's not in this thread.

Basically, you're saying you're arguing from a position you refuse to describe, claim not to believe, and refuse to give or take any evidence against.

And therefore, because something happened notable in a bad place, therefore less notable bad things didn't happen in less bad places? What sort of argument is that, anyhow?

And then you go to the dictionary term of racism, to prove that apparently you can say or do things racist, but because you say you aren't a racist, apparently you're not a racist! Gosh, darn, all those guys in sheets who didn't really hate blacks but just wanted them to know their place weren't racist, they didn't hate black people, after all. WTF.

-Crissa

PS, I just quoted you saying some sexist shit. Asshole.

[Zinegata]

PS, I just quoted you saying some sexist shit. Asshole.

Again, Crissa, let me explain it to you.

When people call you a bitch, a dumbshit, or a retard, it's not a dig against women in general.

It's a dig against you.

Stop confusing yourself with women in general. I would wager most of them would be embarassed by sharing the same gender with you by the way you keep missing this very simple distinction.

Calling you a bitch, a dumbshit, or a retard is not sexist. It's stating facts about you.

[Kaelik]

And then you go to the dictionary term of racism, to prove that apparently you can say or do things racist, but because you say you aren't a racist, apparently you're not a racist! Gosh, darn, all those guys in sheets who didn't really hate blacks but just wanted them to know their place weren't racist, they didn't hate black people, after all. WTF.

So in other words, you can't actually point to anything I've ever done or said that is racist or sexist, so you'll just keep repeating that I do and say racist things in the hopes that repeated lying will make everyone else believe you.

PS, I just quoted you saying some sexist shit. Asshole.

No you didn't. You quoted me insulting you. Which once again, is because you are fucking stupid, not because you are a woman.

[Zinegata]

Kaelik isn't a right wing moron, he just seems to have the idea that minorities should just shut the fuck up

Because the blacks and Hispanics should shut up.

I have relatives in the United States who belong to another minority. The Asian-American minority. Specifically, the Filipino-American minority. Do you ever see Asians marching up and down the streets demanding more "civil rights" even though their grandparents were regularly under the threat of being lynched for being "yellow", or that their grandma was sent to a fucking internment camp just because they're Japanese? Hell, the only issue Filipino-Americans were ever sore about was the WW2 veteran's backpay issue.

The fact is, the reason why Hispanics and Blacks are loud is because many of them are poor. And they want government to help them. Which is cool if they define that as the problem.

Because the reason for them being poor isn't racism, because Asian-Americans get hit by racist shit too but on average manage to equal (or with some groupings, even exceed) the income of WASPs. It's a lot of other factors, like education, that actually contribute to lower incomes among Hispanics and Blacks (not helped by the fact the fact that Hispanics insist on teaching Spanish, whereas Asian-Americans don't insist on Chinese, Japanese, or Filipino to be the language taught at their schools. They know they're in fucking America. They know they should learn English).

Honestly, as a Filipino, I say good job to Arizona and fuck all the Hispanics trying to cross the border illegally. In fact fuck all the Hispanics living in America illegally. Unlike them we have to actually fucking follow the strict immigration quotas.

Call me a racist, but the way Hispanics play the immigration game simply isn't fucking fair. Get in fucking line.

[Orion]

I'm not, in this post, going to point out a specific instance of you or Kaelik saying something that it obviously racist. My memory isn't good enough to track one down easily; this *could* be because none exists. I'm not going to stake a firm stance on that point right now because I can't be arsed to do the research at the moment. I'll go back later and see, bu the first two pages of Kaelik's posts are about some channel game.

However, claims to "hate everyone equally" or "not racist, just misanthropist" strike me as RED ALERTS every time I hear them. Why?

Orthogonal to the dictionary definition: You may think that 95% of the world are total idiots, but that doesn't mean you don't also buy into ethnic stereotypes. To take an extreme example, if a hypothetical person started a list of "stupid people" like this: greedy jews, violent blacks, over-greased italians, etc., then even if the list got long enough to include every conceivable ethnic categorization, that person would indeed be racist because that person does believe that race has "an effect on individual or cultural achievement".

Blind Spots: For almost everyone, there's a group that doesn't feel like a group ot you because you're in it, whose flaws you're less aware of. It may not be as big as "white men." It may be "the mostly-white subculture into this type of media from my hometown" or whatever. But guaranteed, there's at least one group of people you don't hate, which means you *are* indeed racist/classist/sexist against everyone else.

Inequal Discourse: People of minorities, especially vocal ones, get a lot of harassment especially in the form of calling them idiots. Therefore, one ought to be careful not to let's one general cynicism or argumentative spirit lure one into joining a pile-on. Pile-ons against people of "powerful" groups are rarer and less harmful, so even trating everyone identically can have different consequences.

Of course, plenty of minority group memebrs are in fact idiots. But calling someone an idiot can be criticism, insult, or harassment, and any of these are possible *regardless of whether it is true*.

So, Ubernoob, that's why you post rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe I'll do a follow-up in which I assess my opinion of the actual recent dustups.

[Kaelik]

FYI, I do not want minorities to shut up. Even the "uppity" ones that aren't Fillipino. Which you can deduce from Crissa's complete inability to point to anything I have ever said that is racist.

EDIT: that made more sense when I thought it was following Zine than Orion.

That said, Orion, Uber can probably attest to my lack of blind spots. I was ragging on Frank Motherfucking Trollman, my Motherfucking God, like 12 minutes ago for his thing where he thinks gene preservation is some sort of objective measure of value, instead of equally as subjective as everything else.

I also spend 30% of my internet time hunting down and berating every legendary atheist figure for not being atheist enough.

My Blind Spot is me, because I am always right, and so the only thing I can possibly be classified as, under the current naming scheme is an individualist.

[Zinegata]

FYI, I do not want minorities to shut up.

But I do .

Like I said, Hispanics aren't playing the immigration game fairly. And yet they're fucking whining about it. They should really shut up.

[Maxus]

http://www.stylelist.com/2010/04/30/hum ... l-spill%2F

I remember hearing about this a long time ago.

Something about the hair's surface texture means it can hold a lot of oil relative to its shaped and size.