From Arizona to Pacific Asian American History

[ubernoob]

FYI, I do not want minorities to shut up. Even the "uppity" ones that aren't Fillipino. Which you can deduce from Crissa's complete inability to point to anything I have ever said that is racist.

EDIT: that made more sense when I thought it was following Zine than Orion.

That said, Orion, Uber can probably attest to my lack of blind spots. I was ragging on Frank Motherfucking Trollman, my Motherfucking God, like 12 minutes ago for his thing where he thinks gene preservation is some sort of objective measure of value, instead of equally as subjective as everything else.

I also spend 30% of my internet time hunting down and berating every legendary atheist figure for not being atheist enough.

My Blind Spot is me, because I am always right, and so the only thing I can possibly be classified as, under the current naming scheme is an individualist.

Yeah, this pretty much covers what I would say, Orion.

[Ganbare Gincun]

Again, Crissa, let me explain it to you.

When people call you a bitch, a dumbshit, or a retard, it's not a dig against women in general.

It's a dig against you.

Stop confusing yourself with women in general. I would wager most of them would be embarassed by sharing the same gender with you by the way you keep missing this very simple distinction.

Calling you a bitch, a dumbshit, or a retard is not sexist. It's stating facts about you.

You're late, Zinny! I was expecting you to come in with an ad hominem attack against Crissa to help out your buddy Kaelik much sooner then now!

So in other words, you can't actually point to anything I've ever done or said that is racist or sexist, so you'll just keep repeating that I do and say racist things in the hopes that repeated lying will make everyone else believe you.

I don't really care to dredge up your old posts right now, but the fact that you are willing to argue that a set of laws written by bona fide white supremacists that will require non-whites to carry and produce identification papers on demand at any time for any reason either indicates that either 1) you are a racist or 2) you are incredibly naive. Either way, you look like a jerk.

Because the blacks and Hispanics should shut up.

Don't hold back - tell us how you really feel!

I have relatives in the United States who belong to another minority. The Asian-American minority. Specifically, the Filipino-American minority. Do you ever see Asians marching up and down the streets demanding more "civil rights" even though their grandparents were regularly under the threat of being lynched for being "yellow", or that their grandma was sent to a fucking internment camp just because they're Japanese? Hell, the only issue Filipino-Americans were ever sore about was the WW2 veteran's backpay issue.

The fact is, the reason why Hispanics and Blacks are loud is because many of them are poor. And they want government to help them. Which is cool if they define that as the problem.

No offense, but I think that your relatives would probably be a bit more antagonistic towards White America if they were either 1) enslaved by whites (like Africans and Native Americans were) or if 2) their lands were taken from them in an unprovoked war of aggression by the United States. As you said yourself, the only issue Filipino-Americans were ever sore about was the WW2 veteran's backpay issue - I don't think your kin would be quite as ambivalent about their relations with White America if their ancestors shared the same experiences as Africans and Mexicans.

Honestly, as a Filipino, I say good job to Arizona and fuck all the Hispanics trying to cross the border illegally. In fact fuck all the Hispanics living in America illegally.

What about the Mexican-American citizens that comprise 30% of the population of Arizona that will be endlessly harassed by authorities as a result of this law? We already have news stories about people that have been told by Arizona police that their driver's licenses aren't sufficient to prove their status as a legal resident of the United States. Will all of the non-white American citizens in Arizona have to start carrying around their birth certificates with them at all times to avoid arrest and illegitimate deportation? This law is a clear violation of the 14th Amendment, and I don't expect it to hold up in court at all.

And what does this law really accomplish, anyways? Many illegal immigrants are able to easily obtain fake Social Security cards and driver's licenses in order to live and work in this country. How long do you think it will take before the black market also starts churning out fake birth certificates for Mexicans trying to cross the border illegally? If Arizona wanted to really curb their problems with illegal immigrants, they would go after the companies that hire illegal immigrants in the first place. If there's no work, there won't be any immigrants. You start investigating companies that hire illegal immigrants and fine them $250,000 for every illegal worker that you find on their payroll, and your "immigrant problem" will evaporate in no time. It's a simple question of supply and demand that I would think that the Republicans would have figured out by now.

But that's not what this law is really about. This law is the latest piece of legislation that is designed to "encourage" both Mexican-Americans and illegal Mexican immigrants to leave Arizona. And it will achieve the intended result, but only at the cost of the state's worldwide reputation and its economic security. Check this shit out:

In 2008, almost 700,000 tourists visited Arizona from overseas–and they would all be required to produce their visa upon request. In a report commissioned by the Arizona Office of Tourism, it was estimated that tourism from Mexico accounts for almost $1 billion dollars annually. Between 2007 and 2008, legal Mexican visitors spent $7.3 million a day in Arizona. Regular shopping trips by Mexican families in Tucson resulted in a 245 percent increase to the city’s economy since 2001.

Mexico’s Foreign Relations Department is not the only government agency responding to Arizona’s immigration legislation. The San Francisco Board of Supervisors is voting today on a resolution to end contracts between the city and businesses in Arizona.

Arizona is no stranger to economic or travel boycotts. From 1990 to 1993, the state lost 170 conventions and $300 million because of its failure to approve a Martin Luther King, Jr. holiday. Arthur Frommer, the founder of the Frommer’s Travel Guide empire, personally boycotted the state after seeing firearms being openly carried at an Obama speech last year.

But hey - it's better to be poor then have to rub shoulders with the coloreds, amirite?

[Username17]

Zinegata, shut the fuck up. You do see Asians up in arms to get rights for themselves, and they've been pretty fucking successful. But that's not even relevant as far as Filipinos are concerned. Filipinos don't even get treated as Asians in this country, they are treated as Mexicans. As are Hondurans, El Salvadorans, and Bolivians.

Wanting Hispanics to shut up and accept unequal treatment at the hands of Arizonans is especially ironic when you yourself are considered Hispanic by the culture in question. You sir, are a house [EDITED].

-Username17

[Crissa]

Feminism is done wrong as much as it is done right

This is sexist, based on no information, and, well, pretty much words from the asshole's mouth.

Of course you won't bother admitting it.

-Crissa

[Cielingcat]

PS, I just quoted you saying some sexist shit. Asshole.

He also make sure to use male pronouns to refer to me, because he knows that's an insult most people won't catch. I'm mostly focusing on him being a racist though, since hating trans people is totally A-OK for everyone in the world.

I don't think I even need to say anything, because my point-that being that Kaelik (and now his friends) are racist douchebags-is being made quite clearly by their own posts. Especially the ones that actually go and say flat out that they're racist.

What Kaelik is doing is declaring that he's not really racist even when he says racist things, because he hates everyone. The classic "I am a total asshole" defense used on the internet since the beginning of time. But being an asshole doesn't give you a pass on being racist, and even if you don't recognize your own statements as racism, no one fucking cares, because you're still a racist ass even if you think you're an equal opportunity offender. He constantly says racist things, sexist things, and every other "ist" you can think of. The fact that he insults a ton of people with group specific insults doesn't mean it's okay to say them-insulting everyone is worse because you're insulting even more people.

Hating everyone but the group you belong to is the very opposite of being not-racist. Even if you happen to hate some of the people in the group you belong to.

(Also, the irony of Kaelik having that quote in his signature when he himself thinks not only that he's better than everyone, but that everyone but himself and the people who agree with him should die is staggering.)

[Zinegata]

Zinegata, shut the fuck up. You do see Asians up in arms to get rights for themselves, and they've been pretty fucking successful

Since fucking when? When America finally decided to give our veterans back pay? Or the last change in Asian immigration laws in fucking 1965?

Filipinos don't even get treated as Asians in this country, they are treated as Mexicans. As are Hondurans, El Salvadorans, and Bolivians.

And?

What the fuck does that has to do with anything?

We get treated with the same bullshit racism. That's called a "fact of life" for us. But in general, - we don't fucking care. Because we're a pretty succesful minority because we don't spend all of our time whining to the government.

You don't see us complaining when anti-illegal immigrant laws are fucking passed, do you?

So again, fuck the Hispanics and their hypocrisy.

Just because many of us look like Hispanics, and get treated with the same sort of racism as Hispanics, doesn't mean we actually engage in the same sort of fucking bullshit they do. Hell, some of the worse experiences from my relatives weren't even from WASPs. They were from Hispanics.

Wanting Hispanics to shut up and accept unequal treatment at the hands of Arizonans is especially ironic when you yourself are considered Hispanic by the culture in question. You sir, are a house [EDITED].

-Username17

No, you're a fucking moron who didn't read what I said.

Honestly, as a Filipino, I say good job to Arizona and fuck all the Hispanics trying to cross the border illegally. In fact fuck all the Hispanics living in America illegally. Unlike them we have to actually fucking follow the strict immigration quotas.

So fuck off dick shit. If you wanna support illegal immigration then you should support illegal immigration for fucking EVERYONE. Chinese, Filipino, Mexican, it don't matter. We want it, you fucking LET US IN.

Instead of shit special treatment the fucking Mexicans get. You pass an illegal immigrant law, Hispanics play the race card. Fuck them. They should shut up.

Fact is Trollman, the only reason why this is an issue is because Hispanics tend to vote Democrat. Whereas Asians tend to have no particular preferences. This is why you hear of "The Black Vote" or "The Hispanic Vote" but never "The Asian Vote". And in fact, that's probably the only reason you're jumping on me.

[Zinegata]

Don't hold back - tell us how you really feel!

I have made it clear multiple times that you are a moron.

But since you are a moron, I'll repeat. You are a moron .

As you said yourself, the only issue Filipino-Americans were ever sore about was the WW2 veteran's backpay issue - I don't think your kin would be quite as ambivalent about their relations with White America if their ancestors shared the same experiences as Africans and Mexicans.

You're a fucking idiot.

First of all, that's the only issue we're complaining about. And it's been resolved.

But our beef with the Americans? Goes a lot deeper than that.

First of all, there's that whole Filipino-American War. Which was your fucking Iraq of the 1900s and led to the death of some 600,000 Filipinos (worst case estimates). Plus the whole racism and colonial period lasting 40 years. Yeah, sure, you have us independence eventually. But you also freed the fucking slaves.

But you know what? We don't care anymore. Very few people alive remember the occupation. Just as the blacks don't remember slavery anymore because anyone who lived through that period is dead. So excuse me if I don't give a rat's ass about your touchy-feely boo-hoo over what happened to their fucking ancestors.

What about the Mexican-American citizens that comprise 30% of the population of Arizona that will be endlessly harassed by authorities as a result of this law? We already have news stories about people that have been told by Arizona police that their driver's licenses aren't sufficient to prove their status as a legal resident of the United States. Will all of the non-white American citizens in Arizona have to start carrying around their birth certificates with them at all times to avoid arrest and illegitimate deportation? This law is a clear violation of the 14th Amendment, and I don't expect it to hold up in court at all.

What part of "illegal immigrant" do you not comprehend?

And again, my relatives experience racism already from a lot of dumbshit people. In fact, they get it more from Blacks and Hispanics, but maybe it's because they're in Cali and there aren't dumb rednecks in the area. It's called a fact of life in the United States. So what's the big deal with another fucking identity check? If the fucking Mexicans didn't get away with illegal immigration for so long there wouldn't be need for anti-illegal immigrant measures like this.

So fuck you. Fuck illegal immigrants. They should get in line.

But hey - it's better to be poor then have to rub shoulders with the coloreds, amirite?

As a "colored" person, fuck you.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Illegal immigration is bad. That doesn't justify making a law that allows the police to consider being hispanic to be "just cause".

And no one give me "We have to do SOMETHING!" because we don't. If what we do is worse than what we are stopping, then it's best to do nothing until we can think of a better idea.

[Zinegata]

Illegal immigration is bad. That doesn't justify making a law that allows the police to consider being hispanic to be "just cause".

And no one give me "We have to do SOMETHING!" because we don't. If what we do is worse than what we are stopping, then it's best to do nothing until we can think of a better idea.

Have the army guard the border. Build a substantial security wall.

Seriously. If you want illegal immigration to stop, get more guys on the border and prevent people from coming in.

But I doubt this will ever be proposed because anyone who does so is invariably called a racist, and it doesn't really work unless every state bordering Mexico cooperates fully.

Ultimately - illegal immigration ain't gonna be stopped at the national level. Because the Democrats want to keep the Hispanic vote and they're just gonna play the race card whenever illegal immigration is brought up. That's all. So if a state is gonna do a major "fuck you" to them, I'm totally cool with that because it's about time somebody called out this illegal immigrant bullshit.

Again, people are gonna experience racism. What's another damn ID check? A Filipino wanting to go to the US has to fill out a shitload of forms and often have to wait six months just to get a fucking VISA. Is a bit of paperwork like bringing your bloody ID Card too fucking hard?

[Username17]

We get treated with the same bullshit racism. That's called a "fact of life" for us. But in general, - we don't fucking care. Because we're a pretty succesful minority because we don't spend all of our time whining to the government.

Dude, Shut the fuck up!

Your lack of historical knowledge is fucking appalling. The Filipinos didn't sit down and suck it, they fought the US government, and they fucking seceded. The Philippines is a separate fucking country because Filipinos fought long and hard against the oppression of the White Man and kicked our asses out of their island chain!

There were a lot of Filipino riots in California, before signs like these came down:


So take your a-historical bitch parade and fuck the hell off. You're wrong. Totally, unforgivably, completely wrong. Filipinos didn't sit down and take abuse, they formed organizations like The Huk, and they fucking fought. With actual knives and guns. And they won, you disingenuous piece of shit. And the reason why Filipinos are given a fair shake in California today is because they stabbed people who refused to give them one in the face.

-Username17

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Zinegata:

Or, we could make it legal to hire illegal immigrants, and have it mandated by law that they receive the same benefits as citizens.

That way, there is no incentive to hiring illegal immigrants, and the blame falls on the people who hire them and give a reason for people to cross the border in the first place if they don't get with the program.

Of course, that doesn't have the grandiose appearance and massive expense that guarding every inch of a 2,00 mile border has. Kind of like a guy with a tiny penis buying a sportscar.

[ubernoob]

I'm just waiting for ANY evidence that shows either Kaelik or I are racist or sexist.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

No one cares about Kaelik or you anymore in this thread. Now it's all about Zinegata. He just made himself a more appealing target, that's all.

[Zinegata]

Your lack of historical knowledge is fucking appalling. The Filipinos didn't sit down and suck it, they fought the US government, and they fucking seceded. The Philippines is a separate fucking country because Filipinos fought long and hard against the oppression of the White Man and kicked our asses out of their island chain!

Frank, you shut up. Your knowledge of history is based on total bullshit. And you're a fucking liar trying to make yourself look good again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine ... erican_War

Note the result: We lost.

I already said we had 600,000 dead from the Filipino-American War. Did you NOT fucking read?! And guess what? The Philippines lost that war. Which is why were a colony for forty fucking years.

We gained independence that gave us independence in 1946, partly because we lobbied for it as opposed to shooting people for it, but also because you guys thought we were a fucking liability in a war in the Pacific!

You're stating irrelevant facts I already fucking know in an effort to belittle your opponent and make yourself look smart again. Like you always fucking do.

What I'm saying is that right now, we don't care. The Phil-American War was fought ninety fucking years ago. Do you see us shooting up Americans today except for those Al Qaeda crazies in Mindanao? Do you see us demanding reparations for the 600,000 dead of the Filipino American war? Fuck no.

Moreover, I was talking about Asian-Americans. Because you again do not fucking read and you tried to sneakily change the goalpost from "Asian-Americans", to simply Asians.

I have relatives in the United States who belong to another minority. The Asian-American minority. Specifically, the Filipino-American minority. Do you ever see Asians marching up and down the streets demanding more "civil rights" even though their grandparents were regularly under the threat of being lynched for being "yellow", or that their grandma was sent to a fucking internment camp just because they're Japanese? Hell, the only issue Filipino-Americans were ever sore about was the WW2 veteran's backpay issue.

You're a fucking dishonest shit.

So take your a-historical bitch parade and fuck the hell off. You're wrong. Totally, unforgivably, completely wrong. Filipinos didn't sit down and take abuse, they formed organizations like The Huk fucking fought.

You fucking moron. You know what The "Huk" stand for? It's actually the shortened form of Hukbalahap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukbalahap

It means "Hukbo ng Bayan Laban sa Hapon". Which roughly means "National People's Army against Japan". Because it was a fucking guerilla movement - supported by Americans - not against the whiteman. It was formed against the fucking Japanese. And they were also active prior to fucking 1965. In the Philippines, because they're not fucking Asian-Americans.

Also, your OTHER link is about a union in California that formed in fucking 1930, which predates even the last major piece of legislation I mentioned that happened in 1965!

Stop saying shit because you clearly don't know anything about my country and you're just getting random fucking google links.

The fact is, you're mad because I called you a Democratic hack. Because the fact is the immigration issue is just one of those things the Dems support to get the Hispanic vote, not because it makes sense or is fair for the rest of the world.

So fuck off you hack.

[Zinegata]

Zinegata:

Or, we could make it legal to hire illegal immigrants, and have it mandated by law that they receive the same benefits as citizens.

That way, there is no incentive to hiring illegal immigrants, and the blame falls on the people who hire them and give a reason for people to cross the border in the first place if they don't get with the program.

Of course, that doesn't have the grandiose appearance and massive expense that guarding every inch of a 2,00 mile border has. Kind of like a guy with a tiny penis buying a sportscar.

Except it's not fair for the rest of the world, because while a Filipino/Chinese/Japanese or whoever has to line up to immigrate (or at least get a VISA), all a Mexican has to do is to drive across the border.

Illegal immigration should be stopped. Because lots of legal migrants want in, and it's worse for them because of all the cheaters who get in.

[Username17]

Uh... did you notice that I linked to the fights in the 1930s, which led to Philippine independence, and you linked to the Philippine American War in 1899? What the fuck is wrong with you?

-Username17

[Zinegata]

Uh... did you notice that I linked to the fights in the 1930s, which led to Philippine independence, and you linked to the Philippine American War in 1899? What the fuck is wrong with you?

-Username17

You also linked the Huk when I was talking about present-day Asian-Americans. A Filipino guerilla group who was shooting up the Japanese. What is fucking wrong with you?

Also, I can't find a stabbing incident in your link. It does mention a labor union in the 1930, which predates even the Asian Immigration laws I mentioned that were passed in 1965.

[Zinegata]

No one cares about Kaelik or you anymore in this thread. Now it's all about Zinegata. He just made himself a more appealing target, that's all.

[Username17]

Uh... did you notice that I linked to the fights in the 1930s, which led to Philippine independence, and you linked to the Philippine American War in 1899? What the fuck is wrong with you?

-Username17

You also linked the Huk when I was talking about Asian-Americans. A Filipino guerilla group who was shooting up the Japanese. What is fucking wrong with you?

They were formed to fight the Japanese. They also fought the Americans. The Americans left. And the Huk kept fighting and eventually were pretty much destroyed by the Philippine national government. Note: the Philippine National Government. Not the United States, because we had already lost.

The point is: Filipinos have at no time sat down and idly accepted shitty treatment by White Americans. What parity and equality they have has been purchased with rivers of blood - frequently their own.

-Username17

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Except it's not fair for the rest of the world, because while a Filipino/Chinese/Japanese or whoever has to line up to immigrate (or at least get a VISA), all a Mexican has to do is to drive across the border.

If illegals had to be paid the same amount of money and receive the same benefits as citizens, then there would be no incentive to hire illegal immigrants. No incentive would mean that more often or not employers would hire someone who knows the language and customs of this country. And if no one gave illegal jobs because there was nothing to be gained from doing so, there'd be far fewer people crossing the border.


It's not about what's "fair". It's about what gets us the results we desire in ways that are effective and efficient. No one dies, no one has to buy a 2,000 mile wall, no one has to draft soldiers to man said wall.

There wouldn't be illegal immigrants working if people didn't continue to give them jobs. Remember, no one is taking anything here. Illegals work cheap, don't claim worker's comp when injured on the job, don't complain to OSHA when you ignore safety violations. Take all that away and illegals stop being so attractive to employers.

Yeah, it sucks that japanese people have to swim an ocean while mexicans just have to swim a river. You know what, Geography is not anyone's fault.

[Zinegata]

They were formed to fight the Japanese. They also fought the Americans. The Americans left. And the Huk kept fighting and eventually were pretty much destroyed by the Philippine national government. Note: the Philippine National Government. Not the United States, because we had already lost.

Again. Asian Americans. You still fail.

However, even then your history is wrong.

The Philippines was given independence on July 4, 1946. This was because it has been agreed to by the US and Filipino governments in 1934.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tydings%E2 ... Duffie_Act

Yeah, America had agreed to give the Philippines independence in 1934, seven years before the Japanese invasion the idea of the Huk was even proposed.

America left in 1946 not because of the Huks. They left because it had already been agreed to a full decade before. Because of a Senate Bill, and due to the lobbying of Filipino politicians. None of whom fought during the Filipino-American War.

This is basic information that any educated Filipino knows. We know Americans can be reasoned with if you shout at them long enough, but it's a bad idea to shoot at them because they have more ammo .

The point is: Filipinos have at no time sat down and idly accepted shitty treatment by White Americans. What parity and equality they have has been purchased with rivers of blood - frequently their own.

-Username17

Yeah, we fight back if it's our own country. But when we're immigrants? That's a different story. And we're talking about Asian-Americans.

And you haven't been able to produce ANY pro Asian-American legislation that post dates my 1965 Immigration laws, and the veterans backpay issue which I have already stated several times.

[Zinegata]

If illegals had to be paid the same amount of money and receive the same benefits as citizens, then there would be no incentive to hire illegal immigrants.

That's already a pretty huge social injustice. Why tolerate it? Because they get a "better life" in the US than in Mexico?

Well guess what? The rest of the world wants a better life too. And if America is gonna open its doors to the hungry of Mexico, why not the rest of the world?

Again, the issue is fairness. If you're saying it's cool to have illegals because they get paid less, you're already being unfair.

[Crissa]

So, Zinegata said illegal workers were essential to our economy, and now he also denies that Philippines ever demanded equal rights in the US.

Ugh.

I'm just waiting for ANY evidence that shows either Kaelik or I are racist or sexist.

I don't care about you. Kaelik proved it be using sexist terms and slurs.

You think this thread is about you?

-Crissa

PS: The Republic of the Philippines came into being in '65. Not '46. How can you screw up your supposed own history? Geez.

[Zinegata]

So, Zinegata said illegal workers were essential to our economy, and now he also denies that Philippines ever demanded equal rights in the US.

Nope, I'm saying that if illegal immigrants are a loophole to get workers who work under the minimum wage and without benefits, isn't that social injustice?

The whole point of a minimum wage is to give people enough money to live. Aren't illegal immigrants people too? So why can they be hired to work under the minimum wage?

PS: The Republic of the Philippinescame into being in '65. Not '46. How can you screw up your supposed own history? Geez.

Let's see... your links says regarding Philippine independence:

- Declared June 12, 1898
- Self-government March 24, 1934
- Recognized July 4, 1946

Crissa, 1965 is the start of the Macros regime. The Philippines was already independent on July 4, 1946.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... 80%931965)

The period between 1946-1965 is popularly known as "The Third Republic". Albeit our name during the period was still Republic of the Philippines.

Marcos, a son of a bitch dictator, declared "The New Republic" during his reign. Which was not even a democracy despite being called a republic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... 1965-1986)

Also, notice why it ends at 1986? Because we drafted a new constitution in 1986. Which restored a real republic into power via bloodless coup.

... Yeah. You are utterly horrible at this gotcha game. You say the Philippines became a Republic in 1965... when in fact it was the start of a dictatorship.

Maybe you believe that America gained indpendence from France during World War 2?

[Akula]

That's already a pretty huge social injustice. Why tolerate it? Because they get a "better life" in the US than in Mexico?

Well guess what? The rest of the world wants a better life too. And if America is gonna open its doors to the hungry of Mexico, why not the rest of the world?

Because, for a lot of Mexico, that worse life they are living is the direct result of living next door to America. The drug war stems from, American laws, American money, American guns. So fuck you, the mexicans have paid a price for living right next door to us. Why shouldn't they reap the rewards in the name of "fairness?"

I don't actually support that, but this shit about how it is so unfair of the people in Mexico to cross the border and resent discrimination is ass. I'm in favor of larger amounts of legal immigration. Whatever the best policy with that happens to be.