From Arizona to Pacific Asian American History

[ubernoob]

I'm just waiting for ANY evidence that shows either Kaelik or I are racist or sexist.

I don't care about you. Kaelik proved it be using sexist terms and slurs.

Actually, you didn't. All you showed is that Kaelik called you a bitch. That's not a slur. That's calling you a bitch (which you are).

[Zinegata]

That's already a pretty huge social injustice. Why tolerate it? Because they get a "better life" in the US than in Mexico?

Well guess what? The rest of the world wants a better life too. And if America is gonna open its doors to the hungry of Mexico, why not the rest of the world?

Because, for a lot of Mexico, that worse life they are living is the direct result of living next door to America. The drug war stems from, American laws, American money, American guns. So fuck you, the mexicans have paid a price for living right next door to us. Why shouldn't they reap the rewards in the name of "fairness?"

I don't actually support that, but this shit about how it is so unfair of the people in Mexico to cross the border and resent discrimination is ass. I'm in favor of larger amounts of legal immigration. Whatever the best policy with that happens to be.

Life in Mexico is bad. But there are shittier places in the world. So why aren't the doors as wide open for the rest of the world?

We'd actually be fine if there was something like a green card system - where you're not yet a full US Citizen, but can work in the US and have some (but not all) the labor laws applies to you. The point is, it should be fair. As in everyone in the world should have a shot to get in, and not just because you're in Mexico.

Note also that it's easier to get VISAs if you're in Britain or Western countries. So there's really a LOT of unfairness in the system. It's just that the Dems tend to protect illegal immigration for the Hispanic vote.

[IGTN]

I'm just waiting for ANY evidence that shows either Kaelik or I are racist or sexist.

I don't care about you. Kaelik proved it be using sexist terms and slurs.

Actually, you didn't. All you showed is that Kaelik called you a bitch. That's not a slur. That's calling you a bitch (which you are).

Do you actually believe that? Do you actually think anyone else will believe that? Is "calling a woman a bitch isn't sexist" your actual argument here?

[Zinegata]

I don't care about you. Kaelik proved it be using sexist terms and slurs.

Actually, you didn't. All you showed is that Kaelik called you a bitch. That's not a slur. That's calling you a bitch (which you are).

Do you actually believe that? Do you actually think anyone else will believe that? Is "calling a woman a bitch isn't sexist" your actual argument here?

It's not. Saying "All women are bitches" is sexist. Saying Crissa is a bitch is a statement of fact.

The statment is Anti-Crissaist. Not sexist. An individual does not represent the whole.

If you're saying the statment is sexist, then the statement is also anti-Californian. Because it means all Californians are bitches because Crissa is a bitch. In fact, all humans are bitches because Crissa is presumably a human being.

[Neeeek]

Life in Mexico is bad. But there are shittier places in the world. So why aren't the doors as wide open for the rest of the world?

Umm, it's actually harder to legally immigrate to the US from Mexico and points south than it is from the rest of the world except for the Middle East and parts of Africa. Getting in from the Philippines is child's play by comparison.

It's just that the Dems tend to protect illegal immigration for the Hispanic vote.

You are incredibly dumb. Hispanics voting Democratic is a new thing and a direct result of Republicans pulling shit like the Arizona laws. For decades, the largest Hispanic population in the US was from Cuba, and Cubans ex-patriots overwhelmingly vote for Republicans.

Claiming the policies they are talking about aren't racist is a denial of reality. If you think they aren't, you are either incredibly stupid or you are too racist to notice. The problem is you, not the people pointing it out.

[Zinegata]

Umm, it's actually harder to legally immigrate to the US from Mexico and points south than it is from the rest of the world except for the Middle East and parts of Africa. Getting in from the Philippines is child's play by comparison.

And you base this on... what? Just because you say so we should believe you?

Have you actually fucking tried to apply for a US VISA in the Philippines?

You are incredibly dumb. Hispanics voting Democratic is a new thing and a direct result of Republicans pulling shit like the Arizona laws. For decades, the largest Hispanic population in the US was from Cuba, and Cubans ex-patriots overwhelmingly vote for Republicans.

Claiming the policies they are talking about aren't racist is a denial of reality. If you think they aren't, you are either incredibly stupid or you are too racist to notice. The problem is you, not the people pointing it out.

No, you're incredibly misinformed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_A ... cal_trends

Hispanics have been voting Democratic by very wide margins since at least the 90s. You may be referring to Cuban Americans only, who are only recently shifting from Red to Blue.

Also, the biggest block of Hispanics? Not Cubans. Not by a long shot. It's Mexicans. In fact, Cubans are 3rd. They're outnumbered even by Puerto Ricans.

I'm thus gonna have to ask for a link to support the first assertion. Because your second one - factually speaking - is both incredibly dumb and condescending.

[Cielingcat]

I don't care about you. Kaelik proved it be using sexist terms and slurs.

Actually, you didn't. All you showed is that Kaelik called you a bitch. That's not a slur. That's calling you a bitch (which you are).

Do you actually believe that? Do you actually think anyone else will believe that? Is "calling a woman a bitch isn't sexist" your actual argument here?

People like him and Kaelik will never believe the things they say are sexist, because they have defined "sexist" (and racist) as a bunch of things they would never say. Sexism and racism are always to the right of the speaker-even the people who say "all women are bitches" don't believe they're sexist, because they believe there are some "okay" women. And racists never believe themselves to be racist-there are, after all, always some token minorities that are okay until they do something they don't like.

The best you will ever do is convince someone who isn't a raging asshole that they said something racist/sexist/whatever, but someone so invested in being a dick will never admit to being wrong.

[ubernoob]

Kaelik and I are both fairly young individuals, so odds are good that we're using the modern usage of the word and not the usage of a generation ago.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bitch

First definition calls out whining (check) and is completely gender neutral.
Second definition is actually specific to males.
Third definition is a whining female (since we know Crissa is female, this applies).

So yeah, bitch isn't sexist in the slightest. Fuck, whore is gender specific any more. Neither term is sexist since neither intrinsically refers to a sex in the slightest any more.

[ubernoob]

Actually, you didn't. All you showed is that Kaelik called you a bitch. That's not a slur. That's calling you a bitch (which you are).

Do you actually believe that? Do you actually think anyone else will believe that? Is "calling a woman a bitch isn't sexist" your actual argument here?

People like him and Kaelik will never believe the things they say are sexist, because they have defined "sexist" (and racist) as a bunch of things they would never say. Sexism and racism are always to the right of the speaker-even the people who say "all women are bitches" don't believe they're sexist, because they believe there are some "okay" women. And racists never believe themselves to be racist-there are, after all, always some token minorities that are okay until they do something they don't like.

The best you will ever do is convince someone who isn't a raging asshole that they said something racist/sexist/whatever, but someone so invested in being a dick will never admit to being wrong.

This is what happens when you actually read what people write:

Because stupid people are bad. Because people in general are bad. Because anything that undermines the role of women as servants is good. Because abortion is a voluntary and therefore self selective method of getting rid of stupid people, and so is not subject to abuse like gas chambers would be. Because every time a fetus is aborted, people become less attached to false morality imposed on them by various stupid sources who valued that fetus for reasons even more stupid than the reason people normally value them. Because idiots like you think that abortion should be avoided because other idiots think that fetus has any fucking worth at all, and the only way you'll learn is through constant unceasing abortions.

http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=50525& ... &start=225

Fuck off, Cielingcat. Same goes to you, Crissa because you haven't cited jack shit either.

[ckafrica]

Kaelik and I are both fairly young individuals, so odds are good that we're using the modern usage of the word and not the usage of a generation ago.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bitch

First definition calls out whining (check) and is completely gender neutral.
Second definition is actually specific to males.
Third definition is a whining female (since we know Crissa is female, this applies).

So yeah, bitch isn't sexist in the slightest. Fuck, whore is gender specific any more. Neither term is sexist since neither intrinsically refers to a sex in the slightest any more.

Ugh. I hate it when I forget to log on before I read. It subjects me to all these idiots that have been set on ignore for so long.


Using a derogatory statements that are traditionally applied to a specific group against someone not of that group is still derogatory to that group as it is suggesting that the insulted person has negative characteristics that are traditionally attributed to that group. So when you call someone a bitch or a whore you are still be derogatory towards women.

And seriously what exactly makes Crissa a bitch? That she has called people on their shit? Oh noes a woman has the temerity to get uppity against us men folk. What a bitch.

As for the Asshats who are saying that only native speakers should teach English, many of the strongest teachers I know are not native speakers. They actually have to learn the language themselves so they are often better able to explain grammar points and even minutia of differences in vocabulary that we take for granted. As for accents, the only real way to get substantial accent improvement is by exposure. Students who are exposed to the language regularly pick it up better. My students that speak and listen more accurately are those that make a concerted effort to take the time to learn on their own. Students of mine who have studied overseas and have come back all speak English better than students I've taught here for years. Why? Exposure. Why does my French still suck after 13 years of study? Lack of exposure.

[ubernoob]

Kaelik and I are both fairly young individuals, so odds are good that we're using the modern usage of the word and not the usage of a generation ago.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bitch

First definition calls out whining (check) and is completely gender neutral.
Second definition is actually specific to males.
Third definition is a whining female (since we know Crissa is female, this applies).

So yeah, bitch isn't sexist in the slightest. Fuck, whore is gender specific any more. Neither term is sexist since neither intrinsically refers to a sex in the slightest any more.

Ugh. I hate it when I forget to log on before I read. It subjects me to all these idiots that have been set on ignore for so long.


Using a derogatory statements that are traditionally applied to a specific group against someone not of that group is still derogatory to that group as it is suggesting that the insulted person has negative characteristics that are traditionally attributed to that group. So when you call someone a bitch or a whore you are still be derogatory towards women.

And seriously what exactly makes Crissa a bitch? That she has called people on their shit? Oh noes a woman has the temerity to get uppity against us men folk. What a bitch.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/1312/

Honestly, I shouldn't have to use South Park to explain the evolution of insults to you. But I am.

[Koumei]

Look, I wouldn't call either Kaelik or ubernoob sexist or racist, but I think we can all agree, them included, that they are raging assholes even by the standards of the Gaming Den, that no-one gets along with.

[Zinegata]

Look, I wouldn't call either Kaelik or ubernoob sexist or racist, but I think we can all agree, them included, that they are raging assholes even by the standards of the Gaming Den, that no-one gets along with.

Right.... and Crissa isn't a raging asshole with her constant attempts to belittle others on how they don't get their facts straight.... only for it to turn out SHE didn't get her facts straight?

I believe in treating people appropriately. Granted, Kaelik may be an asshole to everyone, but I'm totally cool with them calling Crissa a bitch. Because she IS one.

And it's hilarious that Kaelik gets called sexist... when I was probably the first to call her a bitch.

[Zinegata]

And seriously what exactly makes Crissa a bitch? That she has called people on their shit? Oh noes a woman has the temerity to get uppity against us men folk. What a bitch.

In this thread, she has attempted to again belittle me by saying I don't know that my country (The Philippines) became independent in 1965. Except she's totally wrong. I correctly stated our indpendence date from the Americans as July 4, 1946.

In previous threads, she has also done the following:

1) Claimed that 9-11 was a giant conspiracy theory so that George W Bush and Dick Cheney can build a pipeline through Afghanistan. When asked for evidence, I was told point blank I was lazy and should look for evidence. When confronted by Occam's Razor, she admitted she had no evidence. But we should believe her because she's a "well-read" and hence an authority on the subject.

2) In the Engineering vs Scientist thread (subsequently disappeared), she claimed that the computer software design flow did not require thinking or something resembling the scientific method, and all that was involved was mindless coding and letting the compiler do the job for you. This was totally false. I'm a Magna Cumlaude in Computer Science, and work regularly with big software companies like Cisco. Rather than accept my authority Crissa said my thesis was a "stupid Java app" (it's not even an application), college is just something you sit through to get a piece of paper (probably because she herself never finished), and that we should believe her because her spouse codes server apps.

3) In the transgender arc with Ceilingcat, Crissa began making wild claims that people are trying to clamp down on abortion in America. Except the article she linked doesn't really prove it - it's just a collection of testimonials from people who are complaining Catholic institutions don't teach abortion. Which is a huge "Duh" because Catholics are dead-set against it. However, that's not the head-banging part. The head-banging part is that she was trying to use this article to "prove" to Frank that transgender surgeries are completely safe and don't result in more suicides (which pissed Frank off because transgender surgery DOES cause more suicides, and he ought to know because he's the doctor-to-be and not Crissa).

I believe her exact words to Frank while presenting the link were "Are you afraid to finally be proven wrong, Frank?!" to which a ton of people replied "Crissa, you don't know shit. Stop pretending you do".

So yeah, she's totally a bitch. I can cite more examples, but these are just some recent ones.

And yeah, I'm a vindictive SOB who doesn't forget .

[Ganbare Gincun]

We gained independence that gave us independence in 1946, partly because we lobbied for it as opposed to shooting people for it, but also because you guys thought we were a fucking liability in a war in the Pacific!

Are you high? The Filipino people fought for their independence from the United States in the Phillippine-American War, which lasted from 1899 to 1902. The Filipinos didn't lobby for shit; they they came off fresh from fighting against the Spanish and rolled right into fighting America. Needless to say, they didn't fare nearly as well against the United States as they did against Spain - they did not in fact win the war - but they fought well enough to convince America to set aside their claims of ownership of the island. So President Mckinley issued an Executive Order which lead to the passage of the Phillippine Organic Act of 1902, which provided for the creation of the Philippine Assembly and semi-autonomous Insular Government of the Philippines. This in turn led to the passage of the Jones Act in 1916 and then finally the Tyndings-Mcduffie Act in 1934. But the Tyndings-Mcduffie Act would have ever come to pass if Filipino troops hadn't sacrificed their lives trying to win their independence armed with old rifles and bolos and carrying magical charms against a numerically superior, modernized military force. And even after being defeated, there was an insurgency that went on for 10 years trying to gain Filipino independence!

You're not only engaging in your usual brand of lying and intellectual dishonesty that has become your trademark on this Forum, but you're also doing your ancestors a grave disservice by completely and utterly disregarding their role in securing the freedom that you and your people enjoy this very day.

It's actually the shortened form of Hukbalahap:

It means "Hukbo ng Bayan Laban sa Hapon". Which roughly means "National People's Army against Japan". Because it was a fucking guerilla movement - supported by Americans - not against the whiteman.

Did you even read your own wiki link? The Hukbalahap were formed in 1942 to fight against the Japanese, but they were no friend of America, what with our inability to fulfill our promise to grant the Phillippines independence and the fact that they were the military arm of the Communist Party Of The Philippines and all. And they were none to pleased to find themselves faced with a post-colonial government that was staffed by both Japanese and American collaborators. So they promptly went to war to gain their independence from the new American puppet government until they ran out of steam in 1951.

So yes, Frank's assertion was correct - the freedoms of Filipinos in both the Philippines and the United States has been won through conflict and bloodshed, not by "lobbying" for it. The Filipinos are no different then any other race or minority group that has had to fight for its freedoms in the face of either white colonialism or blatant racism. This fiction that you seem to be trying to sell us - that your people somehow peacefully achieved their freedom and manage to weather modern racism on the merits of sheer their awesomeness - may help you feel superior to the "blacks and mexicans" that you've showed such clear disdain for earlier in this thread, but at the end of the day, your people are no better or worse then the people that you so clearly loathe.

[mean_liar]

I think trying to attribute historical weight to militarily unsuccessful guerrilla groups is not as simple as pointing out they existed.

[Zinegata]

Are you high? The Filipino people fought for their independence from the United States in the Phillippine-American War, which lasted from 1899 to 1902.

Ganbare, first of all, let me embarass you, I already mentioned the Philippine American War. Several times. And the 600,000 dead Filipinos.

See, Ganbare, this is how you operate. You cite stuff that the other person has already said. But you do it in a way so it looks like you're the first to say it. And you call the other person dumb for doing so.

So let me demonstrate why you are fucking stupid.

You are repeating stuff about Philippine history. Which I already know. It's actually surprisingly accurate, because wikipedia is a half-decent source. There's just one problem.

We're not talking about Filipinos.

We're talking about Asian Americans.

Congratulations for being a lying cheat like Frank in trying to move goalposts.


Also, lemme explain a couple of things for the masses:

Are you high? The Filipino people fought for their independence from the United States in the Phillippine-American War, which lasted from 1899 to 1902. The Filipinos didn't lobby for shit; they they came off fresh from fighting against the Spanish and rolled right into fighting America. Needless to say, they didn't fare nearly as well against the United States as they did against Spain - they did not in fact win the war - but they fought well enough to convince America to set aside their claims of ownership of the island. So President Mckinley issued an Executive Order which lead to the passage of the Phillippine Organic Act of 1902, which provided for the creation of the Philippine Assembly and semi-autonomous Insular Government of the Philippines. This in turn led to the passage of the Jones Act in 1916 and then finally the Tyndings-Mcduffie Act in 1934. But the Tyndings-Mcduffie Act would have ever come to pass if Filipino troops hadn't sacrificed their lives trying to win their independence armed with old rifles and bolos and carrying magical charms against a numerically superior, modernized military force. And even after being defeated, there was an insurgency that went on for 10 years trying to gain Filipino independence!

Guess what? We still lost the war. And Aguinaldo (the commander of Filipino forces during the Philippine-American War) was a bitter rival of Quezon, who favored lobbying. History is not simple. Filipinos were not united. Those who died for Aguinaldo probably wouldn't have been jumping for joy with a Quezon-led Commonwealth.

In short, what Ganbare is doing is saying that present-day Americans should be proud of all the brave Confederates who died for their states. Because they died for their country even though they were fighting for different principles.

Ganbare talks stupidly about the Huk

And here Ganbare is on crack.

America actually fulfilled its promise of independence. That's why we got it in 1946, immediately after the end of the war and even though Manila was still a ruin. That was in the agreement. 12 years after Tydings McDuffie. There was actually talk of postponing it on the Filipino side, but it was eventually decided to proceed anyway.

Again, the Americans never left because of the Huk. It was already signed back in 1934.

So yes, Frank's assertion was correct - the freedoms of Filipinos in both the Philippines and the United States has been won through conflict and bloodshed, not by "lobbying" for it.

Yeah. And yet in his own summary of the Philippine struggle for indpendence, he cited the following:

- 3 years of war (1899-1902)
- 10 years of minor insurgency (1902-1912)
- Forty-four years of political lobbying that resulted in two bills that granted Philippine independence through a phased process. (1902-1946)

Yeah, I'm sure the 3 years of war where we lost every major battle was the biggest reason the Americans granted us independence. Not the 44 years of talking to them while we were a colony... that did result in indpendence in 1946.

[Ganbare Gincun]

I think trying to attribute historical weight to militarily unsuccessful guerrilla groups is not as simple as pointing out they existed.

The death toll amongst Filipinos over the course of the war was appalling, even by today's standards. As per Wikipedia:

The Philippine–American War ensued between 1899 and 1902. The war officially ended in 1902 with the Philippine leaders accepting, for the most part, that the Americans had won, but not until over one million Filipinos had died in the American part of the conflict and occupation (200,000 men, women and children during the war itself), over 20% of the Filipino population had been killed, and in many cases, exterminated.

American firepower was overwhelmingly superior to anything the Filipino rebels could put together. In the very first battle, Admiral Dewey steamed up the Pasig River and fired 500-pound shells into the Filipino trenches. Dead Filipinos were piled so high that the Americans used their bodies to build battlements. As news of atrocities committed in subduing the Philippines arrived in the United States, support for the war flagged. The concentration camps probably didn't help, either:

Filipino villagers were forced into concentration camps called reconcentrados which were surrounded by free-fire zone, or in other words “dead zones.” Furthermore, these camps were overcrowded and filled with disease, causing the death rate to be extremely high. Needless to say the conditions of these “reconcentrados” were awful. Between January and April of 1902 8,350 prisoners died out of approximately 298,000 in total. Some camps incurred death rates as high as 20 percent. "One camp was two miles by one mile (3.2 by 1.6 km) in area and "home" to some 8,000 Filipinos. Men were rounded up for questioning, tortured and summarily executed."

In Batangas Province, where General Franklin Bell was responsible for setting up a concentration camp, a correspondent described the operation as “relentless.” General Bell ordered that by December 25, 1901 the entire population of both Batangas Province and Laguna Province had to gather into small areas within the “pablacion” of their respective towns. Barrio families had to bring everything that they could carry because anything left behind – including houses, gardens, carts, poultry and animals – were burned by the U.S. Army. Anyone found outside the concentration camps were shot. General Bell insisted that he built these camps to "protect friendly natives from the insurgents, assure them an adequate food supply" while teaching them "proper sanitary standards." The commandant of one of the camps referred to them as the "suburbs of Hell."

American soldiers killed “men, women, children, prisoners and captives, active insurgents and suspected people, from lads of 10 and up, an idea prevailing that the Filipino ... was little better than a dog” who belonged on "the rubbish heap."

This use of concentration camps by the United States in order to control the Filipinos movement and possible Guerillas is representative of the view the U.S. military and especially General Otis took toward the natives. The American officers were distrustful of any and all Filipinos that they saw due to the Guerilla aspect of the war. In fact, even though some Macabebe Filipinos were recruited into the U.S. military as a special scout unit, and served bravely, General Otis mistrusted them. This widespread mistrust of any Filipino, thinking of them all as a potential enemy, played a large part in the formation of the concentration camps.

Mark Twain famously opposed the war by using his influence in the press. He said the war betrayed the ideals of American democracy by not allowing the Filipino people to choose their own destiny.

There is the case of the Philippines. I have tried hard, and yet I cannot for the life of me comprehend how we got into that mess. Perhaps we could not have avoided it — perhaps it was inevitable that we should come to be fighting the natives of those islands — but I cannot understand it, and have never been able to get at the bottom of the origin of our antagonism to the natives. I thought we should act as their protector — not try to get them under our heel. We were to relieve them from Spanish tyranny to enable them to set up a government of their own, and we were to stand by and see that it got a fair trial. It was not to be a government according to our ideas, but a government that represented the feeling of the majority of the Filipinos, a government according to Filipino ideas. That would have been a worthy mission for the United States. But now — why, we have got into a mess, a quagmire from which each fresh step renders the difficulty of extrication immensely greater. I'm sure I wish I could see what we were getting out of it, and all it means to us as a nation.

To deny the Philippines independence would have meant either turning the entire country into a prison for its inhabitants, or fighting an endless war against people that were willing to secure their independence, no matter what the odds, no matter high the cost. And that shit just didn't fly with the American people as well as it does these days.

So yes, I think I'm safe when I attribute historical weight to the unsuccessful insurrection of the Filipino people against the United States.

[Zinegata]

I think trying to attribute historical weight to militarily unsuccessful guerrilla groups is not as simple as pointing out they existed.

Correct.

[Username17]

I would actually say that you're both wrong as for Philippines independence. Since July 4th, 1946 is when the US allowed the Philippines to be their own country, but they still had to follow US laws. It wasn't until 1957 the Philippines got a president who dared take down US imposed restrictions that gave preferential treatment to US investors over Philippine nationals.

There's a reason that July 4th, 1946 is "Philippine-American Friendship Day" and not "Philippine Independence Day" - which is June 12th.

But basically, Zinegata, everything you say is a lie. Like, every single thing. Let's go look at your Crissa quotes:

Oh wait, you don't have any Crissa quotes. You just have three things you accuse her of having said, none of which are things she actually said. You bring up the Afghanistan argument (where you insisted that there was no evidence that anyone was going to build a pipeline through Afghanistan, a statement you held onto like grim fucking death after people showed you the fucking plans). You bring up the Engineering vs. Science argument, where you are merely continuing to mischaracterize her argument. And then you bring up the transgender argument where you claim that I said that gender change procedures increased suicides, which I did not in fact say.

I'm perfectly happy to get in it with Crissa on any of a number of topics, and I grind my teeth watching her post up something she half remembered from a blog as a fact everyone knows on a regular basis. But let's be real here: Zinegata, you are always wrong. Stop doing that.

-Username17

[Zinegata]

To deny the Philippines independence would have meant either turning the entire country into a prison for its inhabitants, or fighting an endless war against people that were willing to secure their independence, no matter what the odds, no matter high the cost. And that shit just didn't fly with the American people as well as it does these days.

See, that's a lie. Because in the years after the Philippine-American War (bad as it was) the Philippines was actually mostly pacified except for Mindanao. But Mindanao is basically a tropical version of Afghanistan even to this day.

Again, 44 year occupation, but only 10 years of insurgency? Doesn't quite add up when you consider the autonomous Philippine government didn't emerge until the last 12 years of that occupation.

In fact, before the Jones Bill was passed, there was a seperate party pushing to make the Philippines an American state.

Because we took a long look at our neighbors, and decided that despite the 600,000 dead, the Americans were fucking decent people. They actually court-martialled Generals Waller and Smith for committing war crimes. And they were both convicted.

Plus, we had Mark Twain lobbying for us.

Point is, America taught us that shooting at them just doesn't work. They have more fucking ammo. And that peaceful transitions of power... can happen.

Like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDSA_revolution

Which led to this:

Many people around the world rejoiced and congratulated Filipinos they knew. Bob Simon, an anchorman at CBS said, "We Americans like to think we taught the Filipinos democracy. Well, tonight they are teaching the world"

And led to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_th ... l#The_Fall

[Zinegata]

Hey, Frank, still trying to cover up the fact we're talking about Asian Americans and not native Filipinos? Got any pro Asian-American laws yet?

And that the only reason you're saying I'm wrong at everything is because you're a lying shit who tried to move goalposts?

BTW, yes, you're right. You didn't say transgender procedures didn't increase suicides. You're just implying it did, even though we literally "don't know".

However, you're a lying shit if you say I didn't acknowledge the Afghan pipeline. I said there was no 7.6 billion dollar oil pipeline that made any sense. Which is true.

See, unlike you, I do know when I'm wrong. And don't try to fucking hide it by attacking other people when I get caught.

(And yeah, I'm deliberately ignoring your dig on the Bell Trade Act. Because it's fucking irrelevant. You could argue that Philippines isn't independent today because of our reliance on American aid and trade, but it doesn't matter worth a shit when we're talking about Asian Americans)

[Ganbare Gincun]

Congratulations for being a lying cheat like Frank in trying to move goalposts.

Zinny, you're the one moving goalposts. This conversation started off talking about Asian-Americans, and then shifted to a discussion of Filipino-Americans in particular once you started spouting off about how your people are so much more awesome and resilient then the minorities that you don't like. Don't be a lying fuck and try and pretend that Frank and I haven't been addressing the relevant matters at hand.

In short, what Ganbare is doing is saying that present-day Americans should be proud of all the brave Confederates who died for their states. Because they died for their country even though they were fighting for different principles.

Is that... is that false equivalency that I smell? It smells pretty bad - like the rest of your arguments.

America actually fulfilled its promise of independence. That's why we got it in 1946, immediately after the end of the war and even though Manila was still a ruin. That was in the agreement. 12 years after Tydings McDuffie. There was actually talk of postponing it on the Filipino side, but it was eventually decided to proceed anyway.

...and when when it became evident that Manuel Roxas - a collaborator with the Japanese and a puppet of the United States - won the Presidency in 1946, it didn't seem very much like "independance" to the Huks. Much in the same way that the Afghan people and the Iraqi people probably aren't very happy with the Presidents that have been elected during our occupation of their countries. And of course Roxas and his American friends instituted a campaign against the Huks; between 1946 and 1949 the indiscriminate counterinsurgency measures by President Roxas had the Philippine Army, Philippine Constabulary, and civilian guards attacking villages seeking out subversives.

Again, the Americans never left because of the Huk. It was already signed back in 1934.

No, the Americans "left" because of the fierce fighting of the insurgency that was led by Aguinaldo, which is what I just fucking said in my last post. But the Huk chose to fight on against a government which they considered (probably correctly, what with us still having military bases and shit in their country) to be an American puppet regime.

Yeah, I'm sure the 3 years of war where we lost every major battle was the biggest reason the Americans granted us independence. Not the 44 years of talking to them while we were a colony... that did result in independence in 1946.

I addressed this issue in my previous post. Unlike today, America had no stomach to wage a war against an insurgency that would result in either the enslavement or the genocide of the people that they were trying to "annex". But hey, feel free to take a big greasy dump all over the bloody sacrifices that your ancestors made to secure the freedom of your homeland. Whatever boosts your self-esteem and helps you sleep at night, I guess.

[Zinegata]

Zinny, you're the one moving goalposts. This conversation started off talking about Asian-Americans, and then shifted to a discussion of Filipino-Americans in particular once you started spouting off about how your people are so much more awesome and resilient then the minorities that you don't like.

The fuck? My original quote:

I have relatives in the United States who belong to another minority. The Asian-American minority. Specifically, the Filipino-American minority. Do you ever see Asians marching up and down the streets demanding more "civil rights" even though their grandparents were regularly under the threat of being lynched for being "yellow", or that their grandma was sent to a fucking internment camp just because they're Japanese? Hell, the only issue Filipino-Americans were ever sore about was the WW2 veteran's backpay issue.

Again, Gabare, you're a lying shit. I didn't move the goalpost. It was always fucking there with Asian-Americans and Filipino Americans.

You and Frank however, are moving the goal post to native Filipinos. Which is why you keep citing shit you don't really understand like Tydings McDuffie.

BTW...

No, the Americans "left" because of the fierce fighting of the insurgency that was led by Aguinaldo, which is what I just fucking said in my last post.

The Philippine-American War is something I have already cited numerous times... and tend to downplay because the independence came forty decades after the end of that war.

It was NOT a very successful insurgency. To the point that Aguinaldo ended up running against the guy who lobbied for independence (Quezon), and lost that too.

If you want to say "They died as heroes", sure, they're entitled that. Aguinaldo is enshrined in our pantheon as our equivalent of George Washington. But to say the Americans left because of Aguinaldo despite a forty year gap between the war and independence is nuts.

We *lost* the insurgency. That's a fact. Not all revolutions end with a happy George Washington ending.

[Kaelik]

Wholly Fucking Shit this is hilarious.

I don't really care to dredge up your old posts right now, but the fact that you are willing to argue that a set of laws written by bona fide white supremacists that will require non-whites to carry and produce identification papers on demand at any time for any reason either indicates that either 1) you are a racist or 2) you are incredibly naive. Either way, you look like a jerk.

1) That's not a real sentence, you are missing a clause.

2) I don't suppose you could actually point to any defense/support/whatever you were going to say of those laws by me? Or are you as allergic to backing up your shitty lies as Crissa and Ceiling Cat.

Feminism is done wrong as much as it is done right

This is sexist, based on no information, and, well, pretty much words from the asshole's mouth.

No it isn't sexist or based on no information. It is based on going to college and having to deal with a great many feminists who think that feminism is about hating guys and how women are superior to men because they can have children and are creators, and are more intuitive and compassionate than men, oh yeah, and having children is bad and they would never do it because it's slavery. And oh yeah, being objectively right is inferior to being subjectively right because the phallus is one single entity, and the vagina is dualistic.

Yes Crissa, many things that come out and call themselves feminism are self contradictory, and choose to take gender stereotypes, and instead of ignoring them, or contradicting them, they put them on a pedestal and talk about how they are completely 100% true, but it's better to have the stereotypes women have then the ones men have so it's okay.

That is in fact bad feminism. And it is not sexist to say so. It's just true. See, most people are stupid, so when you create a movement, most of the people in it are stupid. While I whole heartedly support some Feminism, I also completely oppose other Feminism. So when I state that I do not unqualifiedly support all things with the name feminism, that is not being sexist, it is being accurate.

He also make sure to use male pronouns to refer to me, because he knows that's an insult most people won't catch. I'm mostly focusing on him being a racist though, since hating trans people is totally A-OK for everyone in the world.

This deserves some kind of image macro, but I am not Roy or Frank, so I don't have a store of those.

Really, when I use a pronoun for a trans person who I do not know personally and who has never stated a preference, it's not because I'm just using a pronoun, it's a calculated insult. Fuck you Ceiling Cat. The last thing I care about is my insults being caught.

Just accept that people can't read your fucking mind to figure out what you want to be called instead of blaming it on secret prejudice. I called you he all the damn time before I knew you were a tran, and you never said anything, so I kept calling you he. If you don't want people to use a pronoun, fucking correct them when they use that pronoun.

What Kaelik is doing is declaring that he's not really racist even when he says racist things, because he hates everyone. The classic "I am a total asshole" defense used on the internet since the beginning of time. But being an asshole doesn't give you a pass on being racist, and even if you don't recognize your own statements as racism, no one fucking cares, because you're still a racist ass even if you think you're an equal opportunity offender. He constantly says racist things, sexist things, and every other "ist" you can think of. The fact that he insults a ton of people with group specific insults doesn't mean it's okay to say them-insulting everyone is worse because you're insulting even more people.

Oh look, someone else making generically stupid statements about how I am a racist because I say racist things, but no ability whatsoever to point to anything I've ever said as actually racist, because I don't say racist things, and you are a pack of liars.

Hating everyone but the group you belong to is the very opposite of being not-racist. Even if you happen to hate some of the people in the group you belong to.

Which would matter if I didn't hate anyone at all in the "group I belong to" whatever the fuck that means.

(Also, the irony of Kaelik having that quote in his signature when he himself thinks not only that he's better than everyone, but that everyone but himself and the people who agree with him should die is staggering.)

Yeah, it's almost like I selected that quote on purpose or something? Naw. That's impossible. I'm sure the quote is in my sig without me having ever read it.