I have a feeling there is going to be a Deus Ex Machina as far as IMR goes. Don't ask me why, I just do.The fight is not really over whether the company collapses, but when it collapses, and who gets what amount of money while it does.
Clutch
Moderator: Moderators
No. The Draws graphs were compiled by Phil deLuca. KC and he have had some public shouting matches at each other. Both of them are assholes, and neither is very bright. But very roughly, KC has been in Loren Coleman's camp the entire time, while mostly Phil DeLuca has been opposed, but in a weird way because he isn't good at making logical arguments.crizh wrote:Interestingly, Kid Chameleon has blamed the previous lawyer for the irregularities with the corporate paperwork over on Dumpshock.
Hard to tell if that is true, KC did compile the 'draws' graph but he's backing Loren now.
That's entirely possible. I mean, let's be real here: IMR's position is awful. They went for a pure electronic printing of Spells & Chrome because they could not afford to rub $5000 together to get a physical printing of it made. Meanwhile, they don't have to pay the royalties on that book for the moment, and as far as I know they aren't doing it. But they are running up a royalty bill, if they ever did print it for real, they'd owe even more money. And they are of course being taken to court for owing WildFire thirty seven thousand dollars that they are delinquent on from last year.Clutch wrote:I have a feeling there is going to be a Deus Ex Machina as far as IMR goes. Don't ask me why, I just do.
Did I mention names? Or are you just as asshole?Taharqa wrote:Are you suggesting someone has perjured themselves, or is this just hypothetical?mean_liar wrote:It is illegal to perjure yourself, even in civil cases. So a civil suit could bring out someone lying under oath, which is a criminal offense.
There's more than just the red ink. Coleman et al. is a liability, and the remaining staff is not well-liked among the people you'd need to go out and get to get any new products written. Anyone who was involved in running the company is long gone; you have Coleman's family and friends wearing three hats to get anything done now.FrankTrollman wrote:IMR is a corporate shell. Its logo isn't worth anything, most fans don't even know it exists. IMR doesn't own any printing presses or monopolize any distribution channels. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't even own Battletech or Shadowrun. They are seriously in the red. You could just take the same money and make a new corporation and lease the rights from Topps for the products you wanted. Starting up a new company would be cheaper than paying all of IMR's back wages and defaulted contracts. So why wouldn't you do that instead?
I respectfully disagree.A Man In Black wrote:There's more than just the red ink. Coleman et al. is a liability, and the remaining staff is not well-liked among the people you'd need to go out and get to get any new products written. Anyone who was involved in running the company is long gone; you have Coleman's family and friends wearing three hats to get anything done now.FrankTrollman wrote:IMR is a corporate shell. Its logo isn't worth anything, most fans don't even know it exists. IMR doesn't own any printing presses or monopolize any distribution channels. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't even own Battletech or Shadowrun. They are seriously in the red. You could just take the same money and make a new corporation and lease the rights from Topps for the products you wanted. Starting up a new company would be cheaper than paying all of IMR's back wages and defaulted contracts. So why wouldn't you do that instead?
Such an investor would be making an entirely new company under an old name owned by a known crook. Why would any sane person do that?
They are generally pliable people. They've weathered such changes before.Clutch9800 wrote:I respectfully disagree.
There are a lot of people in the Fan-Base that associate the people tthat bring us the games with the games.
This reminds me of something I posted recently, a quote from CS Lewis:Clutch9800 wrote:...They could raffle off an all expense paid trip to GenCon for a lucky fan. Said fan would get to spend the entire time "in the booth" being an "insider".
Remember, a "place in the inner circle" was what got a lot of these initial investors to pony up cash in the first place.
....Just bear in mind that there are a lot of fans out there who would happily ante up for a chance at being "in the gaming industry".
It just goes back to the leadership principle of "If you treat a loser like a winner, they will do pretty much anything you ask them to."
Clutch
Are you familiar with the concept of human capital? There are still lots of people at CGL with experience on the production side of things and who have familiarity with the various lines. A smart investor might say, "well these guys can't bookkeep themselves out of a paper bag, but they can quickly produce positive cashflow on my investment, so long as I keep a tight hand on the money bag - and they are so desperate for cash that I can get in cheaply."FrankTrollman wrote: The question is really: why would they want to?
IMR is a corporate shell. Its logo isn't worth anything, most fans don't even know it exists. IMR doesn't own any printing presses or monopolize any distribution channels. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't even own Battletech or Shadowrun. They are seriously in the red. You could just take the same money and make a new corporation and lease the rights from Topps for the products you wanted. Starting up a new company would be cheaper than paying all of IMR's back wages and defaulted contracts. So why wouldn't you do that instead?
-Username17
The answers to those two questions are hardly mutually exclusive.mean_liar wrote:Did I mention names? Or are you just as asshole?Taharqa wrote:Are you suggesting someone has perjured themselves, or is this just hypothetical?mean_liar wrote:It is illegal to perjure yourself, even in civil cases. So a civil suit could bring out someone lying under oath, which is a criminal offense.
Strictly speaking then it didn't matter what KC "tripped up" about. You would have judged him a sucker either way, because in your view either answer means the same thing.FrankTrollman wrote: In defending Loren Coleman, he admitted that the ownership papers were never filed, and now claims that tax forms have not been properly sen to the owners in the last... three... years. I have reason to believe very strongly that at least some of the owners have received tax forms, but it certainly wouldn't be any better if Loren Coleman hadn't been giving them tax forms. In fact, that would be even worse!
-Username17
Whoa there Hombre. I am not speculating on what anyone is going to do, I'm speaking in a purely hypothetical sense as to what eye would do. That said, I'm shallow and self centered, and if I was painted into a corner, and was watching 6 years of absolute screwdriver work spinning down the drain, I'd do whatever it took to keep the company afloat. Notwithstanding the fact that (again hypothetically) eye had been the one that painted myself into that corner.Wow, Clutch, ya got me. I have no speculation chops at all compared to what you just trotted out. Damn, dude. I got nothin'.
As far as I'm concerned, CGL has one piece of human capital. That is Randall Bills. Say what you'd like about him, but the man works like a slave for these games, and has done so since before there even was a CGL. He isn't in this for the money, because if he was he'd have been gone a long time ago. If some take offense that he once used the hyperbole that he was the "Messiah of BattleTech", that's mainly because it's for all intents and purposes true. It has been his guiding vision that has brought the game back from what most folks thought was the grave. Now, he's certainly made some mistakes along the way, and I'm sure that he'd love for the business to be so successful that he could send every one of his kids to Harvard, but that just makes him human, not some Gordan Gecko.Are you familiar with the concept of human capital?
Yes, the concept of human capital is well understood - and that's exactly the point. The human capital value has no particular loyalty to IMR and can easily be poached away.Taharqa wrote:
Are you familiar with the concept of human capital? There are still lots of people at CGL with experience on the production side of things and who have familiarity with the various lines.
In theory, yeah. In practice, I think its a lot more messy than that. And as Clutch pointed out above, Randall Bills is the most important piece of human capital and his situation is a bit more complicated.Orion wrote:Taharga, the amount of human capital IMR has is irrelevant. The new corporate overlords can jolly well hire anybody from IMR they thought was actually good.
They have several employees, including two line developers (Herb Beas for Battletech and Jason Hardy for Shadowrun) and an assistant line developer (Ben Rome for Battletech).Crissa wrote: Is there anyone who has an exclusive contract with IMR?
Someone here is claiming that IMR has human capital, and from what I heard, they were using freelancers - which would be pretty much the exact opposite of having human capital.
What exactly makes Randall Bills the most important piece of human capital? Based on what is transpiring right now, he's either a fraudster, or he's grossly incompetent. What value does a person like that bring to the table? Who the fuck wants to rely on someone like that?Taharqa wrote:In theory, yeah. In practice, I think its a lot more messy than that. And as Clutch pointed out above, Randall Bills is the most important piece of human capital and his situation is a bit more complicated.
Randall, Herb, Jason, and Ben make four people. How many freelancers did their company rely on to produce content? And how many do you think that they will be able to hire once the dust settles?Taharqa wrote:They have several employees, including two line developers (Herb Beas for Battletech and Jason Hardy for Shadowrun) and an assistant line developer (Ben Rome for Battletech).
I think that's the better question. Even if IMR manages to hang on to any of the licenses, what's going to be the quality of the product produced? Some of the (IMHO) best Shadowrun stuff was produced by people who've said either publicly or privately that they won't work with anyone at that company ever again. And how can they attract any decent new talent now that it's widely known that when the going gets tough, the tough apparently don't pay their talent?Ganbare Gincun wrote:Randall, Herb, Jason, and Ben make four people. How many freelancers did their company rely on to produce content? And how many do you think that they will be able to hire once the dust settles?
If IMR is liquidated, exclusive contracts are a joke. If the license is not renewed, liquidation is assured. Do these people have any particular loyalty?Taharqa wrote:In theory, yeah. In practice, I think its a lot more messy than that. And as Clutch pointed out above, Randall Bills is the most important piece of human capital and his situation is a bit more complicated.Orion wrote:Taharga, the amount of human capital IMR has is irrelevant. The new corporate overlords can jolly well hire anybody from IMR they thought was actually good.
They have several employees, including two line developers (Herb Beas for Battletech and Jason Hardy for Shadowrun) and an assistant line developer (Ben Rome for Battletech).Crissa wrote: Is there anyone who has an exclusive contract with IMR?
Someone here is claiming that IMR has human capital, and from what I heard, they were using freelancers - which would be pretty much the exact opposite of having human capital.
King Francis I's Mother said wrote:The love between the kings was not just of the beard, but of the heart