The Shadowrun Situation

[Taharqa]

Randall, Herb, Jason, and Ben make four people. How many freelancers did their company rely on to produce content?

Its actually quite a bit more complicated than that, at least on the battletech side, which I am pretty familiar with. There are a couple of other part-time folks like Joel Bancroft-Connors who do various utility work, but even more importantly there is a huge network of volunteer fact-checkers and playtesters that provide a lot of feedback and are pretty heavily involved. This is part of what I refer to as the "messiness" - the kinds of human capital that can't just be offered a better paycheck. People like Herb and Joel have been building those networks for a long time and reproducing that sort of thing from the groundup burns time and money.

Frank likes to give the impression that noone else is left at Catalyst but a couple of thieves and that anyone of any moral fiber has long since fled, but that is most decidedly not true.

And how many do you think that they will be able to hire once the dust settles?

If they get the licenses, plenty. But...

If IMR is liquidated, exclusive contracts are a joke. If the license is not renewed, liquidation is assured.

Kind of misses the point since the question at hand was about a hypothetical angel investor.

It's more risky on the Battletech front where there are stronger personal loyalties, but by all accounts battletech makes less money.

When you say "all accounts" what accounts are you actually referring to? As far as I know CGL doesn't release information about sales, so only a handful of people actually have access to that information.

[magnuskn]

Really? Given the amount of material they're publishing for battletech (especially the XTROs which smell of "Get us out of this mess") I would have concluded that battletech is their money spinner.

In any case, I don't think that the community would care who publishes, as long as reasonable material is published.

BattleTech is pretty much a dying hobby in its very last throes in Germany.

[Username17]

They have an easier time crapping out emergency pdfs of Battletech than Shadowrun for several reasons:

• The Battletech crew is a more koolaid drinking than the Shadowrun side. They have guys willing to work without pulling copyright for three years at literal slave wages. They can also get people to sign up to draw up emergency filler material to sell as pdfs with no real hope of payment to try to save the company (or at least, Loren's finances).
• The Battletech dev is more competent than Jason Hardy.
• The Battletech "storyline" is something that flows from Loren and Randall. Or at least, that's how everyone left in the company sees it. The Shadowrun "storyline" is something that flows from a vision that no longer works at the company. So when Jason Hardy suggests that the new story direction is that Aztlan is going to war with Amazonia over Aztlan planting some fucking trees, freelance writers push back. Fuck, Loren could say that they were introducing Grays to Battletech and the freelancers would ask him how many words he wanted in a draft.

Battletech gets a lot more books than Shadowrun does, and doesn't make any more money. But it's one of Loren's few loves. You know, aside from stealing shit.

The reality is that Battletech probably will get less attention to it paid once Loren and Randall are out of the picture. Because they keep Battletech running on an unsupportable business model without paying their workers. With a more rational setup, Battletech is probably looking at 3-4 releases a year.

-Username17

[Clutch9800]

Well,

The reason that we're seeing all of these X-TRO's now is that firstly, TRO's are always pretty good sellers, and secondly, they're pretty easy to produce. Much easier than rulebooks and universe "fluff".

I'm not 100% sure I agree that the Shadowrun storyline "flows" from freelancers. Anymore than the BattleTech one does. Freelancers are by definition one of two things; independant enough that they can write thier own ticket to whatever they want to do, or unemployable in any real sense, so they take what they can get. Guess which pool the BattleTech and Shadowrun freelancers fall into? That's not a go at anyone, it's just a fact of life.

All of those people that Taharga mentioned as "Human Capital" are in fact either 100% unpaid, or they are strictly freelance. Trust me, I once was as they are. Now, I got all of my junk for free, and got some really cool LE's with my name embossed in them. So that's certainly something, and I was grateful for how Rob treated me, and I had a lot of fun. But it was also a lot of work.

It's up to the Creative Director and then the Line Developer to set the story arc, and then the freelancers get to play in the sandbox. But said freelancers shouldn't ever get to the point where they think that the sandbox belongs to them, because that's a recipe for rapid ego decompression.

As far as going to war over a few trees, as far as South Central goes art is imitating life, nee "La guerra del fútbol" in 1969.

One of the puzzles pieces that is missing from the CGL structure is Rob. They should have made more accomodations to hold on to him. The reason being, although he is an interesting character, when it comes to business, Rob is all business.

Oh well, this is all spilt milk anyway.

I gotta go spend the rest of my day learning about Lectora.

Shine on you crazy diamonds, and remember I love each and every one of you!

Clutch

[cthulhu]

Kind of misses the point since the question at hand was about a hypothetical angel investor.

Yes - my point is any angel investor would have to be mentally ill to buy IMR. You are paying money for the privledge of getting sued!

Fuck yeah, that's the best worst fucking idea I have ever heard. When you buy shit like that, you leave the holding company behind and loot the assets - but IMR doesn't have any assets that you want to buy.

[/s]

[Taharqa]

BattleTech is pretty much a dying hobby in its very last throes in Germany.

Well, I guess you you would know since a few posts back you indicated that you spoke for 100% of Germany.

[Taharqa]

It's up to the Creative Director and then the Line Developer to set the story arc, and then the freelancers get to play in the sandbox. But said freelancers shouldn't ever get to the point where they think that the sandbox belongs to them, because that's a recipe for rapid ego decompression.

Its funny, though, because that clearly hasn't happened in Frank's case.

[Stahlseele]

Nor most of the other Shadowrun Freelancers.
And even if they did, as long as they give us good stuff and are nice enough, we welcome our new megalomaniacal freelancer overlords O.o
Same with the BT Freelancers, but i guess Herb has them on a bit of a tight leash ^^

[Centurion13]

And how.

I once mentioned over at the CBT site that I would hold viewing hours, standing outside in my yard with coffee and cigar so folks could drive by, point and laugh. This was in response to my obvious error in thinking that a BT product called 'TRO:3085' would ever see the light of day in PDF, much less print.

The more I read Frank's comments about product in the pipeline, the more I suspect they have that TRO in the pipeline as well, and that it is only waiting for the printer to be paid off in order to ship.

Frank, consulting your sources, do you think that what is left of CGL is capable of pulling something like that off? Are they making enough to not only pay the lawyers but the printers as well? Just curious - I want to know if I will have to leave a Saturday open for the public apology to those rabid fanboys.

Cent13

[Centurion13]

It's up to the Creative Director and then the Line Developer to set the story arc, and then the freelancers get to play in the sandbox. But said freelancers shouldn't ever get to the point where they think that the sandbox belongs to them, because that's a recipe for rapid ego decompression.

Its funny, though, because that clearly hasn't happened in Frank's case.

It depends on the individual. Some people are more resistant to spiritual corruption than others, just as some folks can run fast or add numbers quickly.

And some folks are simply not tempted by that sort of thing. I have no inclination to drink, for instance, or gamble or abuse drugs. There are plenty of other monkeys to ride my back. Just not those three.

Cent13

[Centurion13]

Nor most of the other Shadowrun Freelancers.
And even if they did, as long as they give us good stuff and are nice enough, we welcome our new megalomaniacal freelancer overlords O.o
Same with the BT Freelancers, but i guess Herb has them on a bit of a tight leash ^^

They could hardly do worse, right?

Cent13

[Stahlseele]

Nor most of the other Shadowrun Freelancers.
And even if they did, as long as they give us good stuff and are nice enough, we welcome our new megalomaniacal freelancer overlords O.o
Same with the BT Freelancers, but i guess Herb has them on a bit of a tight leash ^^

They could hardly do worse, right?

Cent13

Hey, most people seem to like herbs kind of crazy . .
Kinda like some people like Franks kind of crazy too *runs*

[Taharqa]

I once mentioned over at the CBT site that I would hold viewing hours, standing outside in my yard with coffee and cigar so folks could drive by, point and laugh. This was in response to my obvious error in thinking that a BT product called 'TRO:3085' would ever see the light of day in PDF, much less print.

Yeah, I have that one bookmarked.

[Clutch9800]

Hmmm,

A much wiser man than me said this very day that "A bad process will defeat good people 10 times out of 10."

That said, if that's what's been working on the Shadowrun side, then that's what works.

Its funny, though, because that clearly hasn't happened in Frank's case.

I wouldn't in a brazillion years claim to know what the case is for Frank. Frank can speak for himself if the mood strikes.

Clutch

[LaughingMan2070]

Come come Frankie why don't you tell them the whole story?

[magnuskn]

Well, I guess you you would know since a few posts back you indicated that you spoke for 100% of Germany.

Look, fuckhead, stick your passive-aggressiveness where the sun doesn't shine or book up to heighten your reading comprehension, kthxbye.

editing reason: Grammar. It doesn't do to call someone "fuckhead" and then write incomprehensible gibberish.

[mean_liar]

Come come Frankie why don't you tell them the whole story?

LaughingMan? That's rich.

As far as 1-post members are concerned, this is precisely the sort of opaque statement that demands exposition.

[violence in the media]

Don't we already have an official sockpuppet here? We don't need more than that.

[Clutch9800]

Don't we already have an official sockpuppet here? We don't need more than that.

It ain't me.

I have people I care about on both sides of the fence. All things considered, I'd rather see none of them hurt.

Which actually is possible.

Clutch

[magnuskn]

Don't we already have an official sockpuppet here? We don't need more than that.

It ain't me.

I have people I care about on both sides of the fence. All things considered, I'd rather see none of them hurt.

Which actually is possible.

Clutch

Me neither. I joined because I couldn't resist pointing out that the problem with Werewolf: The Apocalypse isn't the dogfucking but the date rape.

[Mask_De_H]

Single post troll?

[Quantumboost]

Don't we already have an official sockpuppet here? We don't need more than that.

It ain't me.

I think he means Sock Puppet. Like, the actual poster whose username is Sock Puppet.

Yes, seriously.

[Clutch9800]

Gentlemen,

I'm positive we can sort out any misunderstandings without resorting to declarative measures.

I speak from the heart, and said heart belongs exclusively to myself.

I bow before your forbearance.

Clutch

[Kaelik]

It depends on the individual. Some people are more resistant to spiritual corruption than others

W
T
F
!

[Username17]

Frank, consulting your sources, do you think that what is left of CGL is capable of pulling something like that off? Are they making enough to not only pay the lawyers but the printers as well? Just curious - I want to know if I will have to leave a Saturday open for the public apology to those rabid fanboys.

Well, they haven't sent anything for printing since February as far as I know. Back in March, there were five things that were ready for printing just on the Shadowrun side that hadn't been sent to the printers because the books already sent to the printers had stop orders on them because IMR had abused the billing privileges with four different printers. That is, IMR had found four different printers in four different countries that would print now and bill later, and distributed their orders through those in an effort to not have to pay for their goods. This plan didn't work, and it took them until May 24th to negotiate the release of those books. I wasn't sitting in on those negotiations, so I don't know if they got them shipped with a partial or complete payment. I believe it was with a partial payment with promises to pay the balance later.

The point is: IMR has not dealt with any normal "cash up front" printer in more than a year. Because they don't have the cash up front to deal with anything like that. And they have managed to thoroughly offend printers that print and then bill as far away as Thailand. I'm not sure that there are any printers left who would be willing to deal with them.

-Username17