The Shadowrun Situation

[Wesley Street]

The people who keep attacking AH in the speculation thread are mostly low-participation types who are often recent joiners, I suspect imports from the BT side of things as I understand people are not allowed to discuss the situation there.

I know two are recent additions to the SR freelancer pool and aren't from the BT side (that I know of). As giddy new hires they don't appreciate AH pissing on their parade.

[Stahlseele]

Thank you for clearing that up. I've often stated that I don't want to drag private relationships with freelancers out into the open; I also, however, do not want to regularly be accused of lying, or for it to be said that I removed Bobby from the freelancer forums because he told the truth or any such things. I presented a schedule at that meeting that I essentially continue to present to this day--DotA 2 (which came out), Corporate Guide, Almanac, War, Attitude, two products that have not yet been publicly announced, Spy Games. I gave that schedule because, from what I was told about efforts to pay people and free up projects, that would be a reasonable way to proceed. As Bobby admits, that schedule has stuck. I went with the best information I had at the time; that information turned out to be good enough that the essential schedule has been kept. I'm sure Bobby honestly believed I was lying; but I don't think his reasons for believing that were solid, and I certainly do not think he went about dealing with that issue in the proper fashion. I know what I was thinking and I knew what information I had to be making those decisions; Bobby did not know what was going on in my head. As it turns out, what I said was accurate.

Bobby was not, then, removed from the forums for "telling the truth." Nor was he removed for lying, but I think I've said as much as I want to say about it for the time being.

In re: Endroren's and Bobby's points about the originality of his drafts, I believe I can safely say that there are no plans within Catalyst to challenge the originality of the material Bobby released. I had concerns that the work of Catalyst-hired editors and proofers was used in the drafts, but Bobby has said that is not the case, and Endroren backs him up on this, so I believe it to be true. I also do not believe for a moment that Bobby copied any material from re-written drafts, or that his release of the material is some elaborate trap. I believe his central motivations are as he claims them to be.

Jason H.

Does not compute O.o
That allmost sounds as if he wants to make up with Bobby . .

[adamjury]

Jason has been put in some very tough situations, having to act as the face of Shadowrun to the fans for the last few months while taking a production schedule that was already bad (although it was getting better as he had been on the job for a half-year and I had brought on a new awesome freelancer to work on the lower-priority projects, freeing me up to work more on important stuff that I cared about and less about saving projects from doom) and only got worse when people -- freelancers and staff alike -- started leaving the company.

[Username17]

Free spirits, since they have materialization, seem a LOT easier to work with in a game then AIs. But they have all the scaling issues of a regular SR4 spirit (and then some) and the rules provided are simply terrible, even ignoring costs.

Not so much. Since they don't have actual neurons, Materialization and Possession spirits can't interact with an entire subsystem that it's expected you can interact with - they can't use AR or VR at all, are immune to brainhacks, etc. Those issues would still require working out.

Inhabitation spirits (non-True Form) are easier to work with, because they interact with the physical and virtual worlds exactly like metahumans do. Anything you can plausibly do to or as a mundane metahuman, you can plausibly do to or as a metahuman-inhabiting spirit in the same way.

Exactly. A possession spirit can wear AR goggles by grabbing something with eyes to see out of, but a materialization spirit does not even have functioning pupils! It needs a fucking holo tank to float in.

And yet, what does Aaron do? He writes a subsystem where the easiest integrated spirits (the Inhabitation Spirits) are banned and the ones that are hardest to integrate (the Materialization Spirits) are thrown onto the tightrope without a net. Even before we get into the madness that is the actual point costs, what was needed (a long discussion about how to play a character who has different fucking physics from the rest of the PCs) was exactly the opposite of what was provided.

---

I know what I was thinking and I knew what information I had to be making those decisions; Bobby did not know what was going on in my head. As it turns out, what I said was accurate.

OK, I'm going to say it: Jason is a fucking liar.

I was willing to call Jason "wrong" earlier. Even on the wrong side. But now he is just flat out lying to the public about something that is in the fucking past and cannot be excused as merely being bad prognostication. He said that IMR was going to fucking print fucking books and fucking pay people fucking money what they were fucking owed. These are events that have not happened and are no longer even on the fucking schedule.

The fact that the schedule of vaporware hasn't changed doesn't mean it was right, it means it was wrong. If the schedule had been in any way accurate, books would have been sent to the printer already. So what he said as inaccurate. Which at the time I was willing to call as being merely wrong. But to say after the fact, after the inaccuracy has been demonstrated by the cold hard fact of a lack of releases, that it was an accurate statement all along? That's a bold faced lie.

Bobby was right: Jason is a liar.

That makes it easy. Now I can hate him too. No more feeling sorry for Jason.

-Username17

[Asbestos Underwear]

I call BS on Frank.

Who would front fucking money to a fucking printer to run a fucking bunch of books that won't be on fucking boats for months and won't be allowed to go to fucking retail if the fucking license isn't renewed?

They've got problems. They probably won't get the license back. You want money thrown at some Thai douchebags to no end? Because honesty and transparency about the print schedule really matter now? That's horseshit. There's a lot to be in a rage about, but beating up JMH on this one is asinine. LLC and RNB are burning down the entire operation by pocketing the PDF exclusive money. Or they're making rational business decisions and using it to pay people and/or setting it aside to cover print runs if they can actually sell the damn books. It's probably too late for doing the right thing to save their sorry asses, but at least that would leave some more cash for people to get from the bankruptcy. What matters is that starting print runs makes no sense, no matter what the hell they're actually trying to do at this point.

[Parthenon]

If the license ran out earlier this week and it hasn't yet been decided whether or not Catalyst is still in charge until the end of this month, then wouldn't it be illegal for them to print Shadowrun books or sell PDFs at this point?

[Username17]

I call BS on Frank.

Who would front fucking money to a fucking printer to run a fucking bunch of books that won't be on fucking boats for months and won't be allowed to go to fucking retail if the fucking license isn't renewed?

They've got problems. They probably won't get the license back. You want money thrown at some Thai douchebags to no end? Because honesty and transparency about the print schedule really matter now? That's horseshit. There's a lot to be in a rage about, but beating up JMH on this one is asinine. LLC and RNB are burning down the entire operation by pocketing the PDF exclusive money. Or they're making rational business decisions and using it to pay people and/or setting it aside to cover print runs if they can actually sell the damn books. It's probably too late for doing the right thing to save their sorry asses, but at least that would leave some more cash for people to get from the bankruptcy. What matters is that starting print runs makes no sense, no matter what the hell they're actually trying to do at this point.

No. I don't think it was realistic to say that those books would get published, because they obviously weren't. He told the people working on them that it was under control, that they were going to print and that the writers would therefore be paid. That was wrong. At the time, it could have been excused as simply him not knowing how many problems there were with cash flow or how severe problems were with the printers' bills.

But that's not what I'm calling a lie. I'm calling Jason a liar for saying now that his pep talks then were accurate when they were not.

At the time, I felt that Jason was wrong, and that AH's assessment that Jason was lying was unproven but entirely possible. However, it is indisputable that Jason was wrong, and having him claim to have not been wrong is a falsehood on his part.

-Username17

[Stahlseele]

Nobody REALLY knows wether or not the license actually DID run out.

[Taharqa]

If the license ran out earlier this week and it hasn't yet been decided whether or not Catalyst is still in charge until the end of this month, then wouldn't it be illegal for them to print Shadowrun books or sell PDFs at this point?

Yes, which suggests that (a) the license has not yet run out, (b) Topps has granted a temporary extension until it makes its final decision, or (c) the license has been renewed and we just haven't gotten an announcement yet.

[Taharqa]

I'm calling Jason a liar for saying now that his pep talks then were accurate when they were not.
-Username17

And that is where I have to ask (as I often find myself doing): How the hell would Frank know?

It also seems kind of strange to make a stink about an issue that AH and JMH both agree on, namely that the production schedule outlined by JMH at that meeting has to this point been accurate.

[duo31]

C is unlikely.
If the license was renewed, there would be a big announcement about it already. with all the spin that we've seen, a renewal of the license would be shouted in the forums and on the main website.


Why would IMR pay to have books printed at this point? they have books printed sitting in a warehouse that haven't been paid for yet, If they were gong to pay printers for anything, it would be to release those books already printed.

One possibility that no one has mentioned (i'm surprised Tarq, Clutch) is that this last ditch money grab, isn't to steal as much as you can before the ship sinks, but to pay Topps their pre-royalties for renewing the license. And also a hookers and blow fund to get said Topps ppl to even consider renewing in the 1st place.

-duo

[Clutch9800]

One possibility that no one has mentioned (i'm surprised Tarq, Clutch)

I'm sorry,

But to even suggest that they might have learned from a huge screw up and are doing the right thing is to be instantly branded a sock-puppet, criminal conspiritor, or worse.

No thanks. I'll keep my speculation on the extreme side. Because I'm an extremist, I even drink Sunni Delight!

Clutch

[Kaelik]

One possibility that no one has mentioned (i'm surprised Tarq, Clutch) is that this last ditch money grab, isn't to steal as much as you can before the ship sinks, but to pay Topps their pre-royalties for renewing the license. And also a hookers and blow fund to get said Topps ppl to even consider renewing in the 1st place.

The reason they can't suggest that is because it requires admitting that theft occured, and acknowledgement that Catalyst did wrong.

[knasser]

I even drink Sunni Delight!

Clutch

Classy. Very classy.

K.

[Jay Levine]

I'd just like to say something about the NDA situation: several staff members, including myself, never signed one. The NDA situation at Catalyst was a complete mess. There was no way for a staff member to _check_ if someone had signed an NDA. No central database, not even an alphabetized filing cabinet in Seattle.

... *facepalm*

Good God is there anything that Catalyst ever did correctly on the business end?

What are we gonna hear next? Catalyst doesn't actually exist because they never properly filed the papers?

It's very unfortunate, but yes, Catalyst's business side was/is a terrible mess. They are hardly unique in that regard when it comes to the RPG industry, but in my experience, dealing with RPG publishers has been like dealing with a room full of junkies. Each one tells you that they are getting clean and everything will be better, but given enough time, they end up strung-out and messed up yet again. It's really too bad.

On the NDA situation with Catalyst, I've also been told that CGL/IMR can not locate an NDA for me. I have no idea why keeping track of NDAs is so difficult; I have a file cabinet a few feet away from my computer with copies of all of my NDAs, contracts, and payment check stubs in it. It's not rocket science.

And when it comes to CGL's treatment of freelancers, it's not very good. I mean, it's already a black mark on their relationship with freelance staff when they can't keep their records straight. Contracts were routinely late, even though they are largely boilerplate contracts and they e-mail them to you. It shouldn't take weeks or months to fill in a couple blank lines on a standard contract and e-mail it, yet for some reason it did! And then there's the whole payment issue, which wouldn't be nearly so bad if they simply talked to the freelancers. Revolutionary concept, I know, but these freelancers are also fans and if there are legitimate cash flow issues (owner taking out money for his house notwithstanding), many would be fine with delays as long as they feel that the publisher is keeping them in the loop. Hell, I didn't rely on my freelancer checks, if CGL told me they could only cut so many checks in one month, I'd have gladly told them to send the money to the freelancers relying on their checks first. But no one on the business side of CGL would talk to the freelancers.

Finally, there was also a lack of professional courtesy and respect. I wrote for Shadowrun for eight years. I'd been through three publishers and at least that many line developers. If someone bowed out of writing a piece last minute for whatever reason, those developers knew they could e-mail me and if I could, I would step up. That's how I wrote the Astral and the Metaplanes chapter of Street Magic. But then one day in early 2009 I go to log into the CGL freelancer forums--where I'd been steadily active in conversations and feedback--and my login doesn't work. No explanation of why I'd been removed, no head's up that I would be removed. Hell, I thought it was some technical problem with my login and I asked Peter Taylor (the line developer at the time) if he could find out what was up. He didn't even know I had been removed! I mean, what the fuck?

So the whole situation between Jason Hardy and Bobby (AH) may seem like something new, but it's rooted in stuff that goes back years. It hasn't been a great relationship between CGL and their freelancers for a long time and that's made a lot of the freelancers defensive and embittered when dealing with CGL. There's been some adversarial tension there for a good while, tension that shouldn't exist in that kind of professional relationship.

[Clutch9800]

The reason they can't suggest that is because it requires admitting that theft occured, and acknowledgement that Catalyst did wrong.

I can't acknowledge that theft occured. No one has even been charged with theft.

I will happily acknowledge that Catalyst did wrong by its freelancers, shareholders, and fans by making such a mess of things.

That's evident.

Clutch

[TheFlatline]

The reason they can't suggest that is because it requires admitting that theft occured, and acknowledgement that Catalyst did wrong.

I can't acknowledge that theft occured. No one has even been charged with theft.

I will happily acknowledge that Catalyst did wrong by its freelancers, shareholders, and fans by making such a mess of things.

That's evident.

Clutch

CGL has admitted that there was "comingling". I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to explain how you accidentally "comingle" hundreds of thousands of dollars for years without realizing it.

I've asked lawyers, accountants, all kinds of people. Nobody can give me a legal way that this could happen on the scale that it's happened at.

[Crissa]

I hate to say it, but Clutch is right. Of course, the Colemans have shown us their checkbook and where all the money went, but so far they've hid their hand and said all the money was necessary, and until the bankruptcy proceedings complete, that's all we know.

However, a reasonable person would probably say if Peter didn't pay Paul from proceeds of stuff they made together, and Peter pulled cash out of the accounts... That Peter stole the money.

I'm completely confused as to IMR's defense so far. A defense would be to prove those expenses were appropriate, not that they couldn't make their expenses because they withdrew money.

That's like the bank saying your check bounced because they charged you the bounce fee.

-Crissa

[TheFlatline]

I hate to say it, but Clutch is right. Of course, the Colemans have shown us their checkbook and where all the money went, but so far they've hid their hand and said all the money was necessary, and until the bankruptcy proceedings complete, that's all we know.

However, a reasonable person would probably say if Peter didn't pay Paul from proceeds of stuff they made together, and Peter pulled cash out of the accounts... That Peter stole the money.

I'm completely confused as to IMR's defense so far. A defense would be to prove those expenses were appropriate, not that they couldn't make their expenses because they withdrew money.

That's like the bank saying your check bounced because they charged you the bounce fee.

-Crissa

IMR said that there was unintentional comingling and that the money was being paid back way back when Frank first broke all this crap. My reply to their official statement was "how the f*ck to you do that, to that extent, "unintentionally" without noticing it?" I haven't found anyone who can explain that one to me in a realistic manner.

Not to mention we have Jennifer Harding quitting her job for being asked to falsify royalties reports to Topps, which is theft as well.

Withholding payment on work done for Shadowrun and then going ahead and publishing the books is also theft. That CGL had to pull books after it published them after freelancers had pulled their copyright is an admission of essentially theft.

So there's 3 instances of theft. No, criminal charges won't be filed, but that doesn't mean theft didn't happen. In one of those instances CGL corrected their actions and paid the freelancers, but that doesn't mystically make what happened un-happen.

I'm not even touching the current court proceedings.

I actually doubt that what the Colemans did will even enter into the bankruptcy proceedings. All the claimants need to do is show that there isn't money there or there is a reluctance to pay. Not how the company got to that point.

[Crissa]

I didn't say legal terms were reasonable.

I actually doubt that what the Colemans did will even enter into the bankruptcy proceedings. All the claimants need to do is show that there isn't money there or there is a reluctance to pay. Not how the company got to that point.

That's why it's important to be doing the forced proceedings and to move as soon as possible, so their withdrawals don't fall outside of the research of the bankruptcy court.

-Crissa

[RobBoyle]

On the NDA situation with Catalyst, I've also been told that CGL/IMR can not locate an NDA for me. I have no idea why keeping track of NDAs is so difficult; I have a file cabinet a few feet away from my computer with copies of all of my NDAs, contracts, and payment check stubs in it. It's not rocket science.

I find this amusing. When Catalyst started, they basically waved off a discussion about having a central NDA repository as something they'd get to at a later point. So it was basically up to the devs to collect NDAs for their freelancers. Since I'm in Chicago, and I wanted to be able to check who had NDAs on file, I had all of the SR (and later the EP) freelancers send their NDAs to me. I do indeed have them all in file folder in my filing cabinet, even (mostly) alphabetized. So, Jay, I probably have your NDA.

Of course, CatLabs has never asked me to verify anyone's NDA, nor have they asked me to turn those over when I cut ties. I actually forgot about them until you mentioned this. I suppose I'll be nice and throw them in the mail sometime soon ... to be swallowed in the apparent black hole of information that is the CatLabs office.

[LanceAvalon]

On the NDA situation with Catalyst, I've also been told that CGL/IMR can not locate an NDA for me. I have no idea why keeping track of NDAs is so difficult; I have a file cabinet a few feet away from my computer with copies of all of my NDAs, contracts, and payment check stubs in it. It's not rocket science.

I find this amusing. When Catalyst started, they basically waved off a discussion about having a central NDA repository as something they'd get to at a later point. So it was basically up to the devs to collect NDAs for their freelancers. Since I'm in Chicago, and I wanted to be able to check who had NDAs on file, I had all of the SR (and later the EP) freelancers send their NDAs to me. I do indeed have them all in file folder in my filing cabinet, even (mostly) alphabetized. So, Jay, I probably have your NDA.

Of course, CatLabs has never asked me to verify anyone's NDA, nor have they asked me to turn those over when I cut ties. I actually forgot about them until you mentioned this. I suppose I'll be nice and throw them in the mail sometime soon ... to be swallowed in the apparent black hole of information that is the CatLabs office.

Make copies... lots of copies, as utterly fucked up as corp law is you never know who might need what to keep from being screwed over by these guys, yourself included.

[Clutch9800]

No, criminal charges won't be filed, but that doesn't mean theft didn't happen.

Why won't criminal charges be filed? If someone steals $850,000.00 then criminal charges are generally filed.

I'm hanging my hat on the fact that if someone steals 850k, then the District Attorney would be interested.

Leaving us with two options.

The District Attorney isn't interested, ergo, no theft.

The District Attorney is interested and the investigation is ongoing.

But I'm NOT going to be a part of some internet lynch mob, which is more and more what this is looking like.

Some folks around here have made it abunduntly clear that they have made every potentially interested party aware of the situation. I would assume that means law enforcement at the Local, State, and Federal level.

When I see a conviction, I'll label someone a thief. That's justice.

Clutch

[Clutch9800]

I find this amusing. When Catalyst started, they basically waved off a discussion about having a central NDA repository as something they'd get to at a later point. So it was basically up to the devs to collect NDAs for their freelancers. Since I'm in Chicago, and I wanted to be able to check who had NDAs on file, I had all of the SR (and later the EP) freelancers send their NDAs to me. I do indeed have them all in file folder in my filing cabinet, even (mostly) alphabetized. So, Jay, I probably have your NDA.

This is an honest question, so bear with me.

Why is such a big deal made out of NDA's in the Gaming Industry?

From my experience, they aren't much of a big deal in other parts of the entertainment industry.

Was there some kind of incident in the past that made them important in Gaming?

Clutch

[Jay Levine]

I find this amusing. When Catalyst started, they basically waved off a discussion about having a central NDA repository as something they'd get to at a later point. So it was basically up to the devs to collect NDAs for their freelancers. Since I'm in Chicago, and I wanted to be able to check who had NDAs on file, I had all of the SR (and later the EP) freelancers send their NDAs to me. I do indeed have them all in file folder in my filing cabinet, even (mostly) alphabetized. So, Jay, I probably have your NDA.

Of course, CatLabs has never asked me to verify anyone's NDA, nor have they asked me to turn those over when I cut ties. I actually forgot about them until you mentioned this. I suppose I'll be nice and throw them in the mail sometime soon ... to be swallowed in the apparent black hole of information that is the CatLabs office.

That makes sense, since I have my copy of my CGL NDA and while I'm not sure if you were the one who sent the NDA to me to sign, I do think you were the line dev at the time.