D&D Magitech setting, what's it need?
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D&D Magitech setting, what's it need?
So if one was to take the basic D&D world, after working things out to make it make more internal sense, and make it high magic to the point of having magitech (I mean, using magic to mimic high technology and help drive/use basic tech. Like setting up a heat difference engine straddling a gate between the planes of fire and cold), what, other than fleshing out how magitech is used and what it can do mechanically, would the setting need to feel like a full world?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Organizations. Lots, and lots, of organizations.
You'd have corporations, R&D, probably some sort of financial group that handles anything (including planar currency), factions squabbling over the same resources...
Not to mention the actual political nations/states/groups/etc.
You'd have corporations, R&D, probably some sort of financial group that handles anything (including planar currency), factions squabbling over the same resources...
Not to mention the actual political nations/states/groups/etc.
Last edited by Maxus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
hm, that's an interesting point, actually, how much does "technology" development depend on nationalization? Is a high level of technology (whether "scientific" or magical) require nation states and countries as opposed to monarchies and kingdoms?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Well, I'm figuring it's a by-product of the advancement of society. In the present day, no one really takes kings seriously now. In any case, any political structure that wanted to survive in a high-magitech world would have to be fairly competent.Prak_Anima wrote:hm, that's an interesting point, actually, how much does "technology" development depend on nationalization? Is a high level of technology (whether "scientific" or magical) require nation states and countries as opposed to monarchies and kingdoms?
Monarchies/kingdoms don't lend themselves to competency. In an actual monarchy, the monarch is in charge of it all. He can delegate, but it's ultimately his decision in one way or another. If you went constitutional monarchy where there's a governing body balancing out the monarch, what's the point of having a monarch aside from a figurehead?
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
Protectionist organisations could provide some interesting storylines. Whether it is Magi-corp Johnsons hiring the PC''s for espionage or the Dwarfen government trying to keep a magical nuke out of the hands of Goblins, I am sure you can get a lot of mileage out of that theme.
As for a monarchy/aristocracy, remember that this is a magical world. A noble family may keep power and influence via the will of the gods. I think dieties and demigods has rules for a god bestowing divine ranks on a follower. For something more ''mundane'', an influential noble family may simply be the puppet of an intelligent, monstrous and/or powerful creature, such as a Red Dragon or an Illithid Elder Brain.
I would personally use a lot of sci-fi tropes. A lot of the ''science'' is thinly veiled fantasy anyway, so adapting it to magic is not that hard. The questions I would be asking is what sort of cultural level you want to run the story in. Dark ages, Rennaissance or something more modern? Once you have that in mind, you can then flesh out other aspects of the campaign.
As for a monarchy/aristocracy, remember that this is a magical world. A noble family may keep power and influence via the will of the gods. I think dieties and demigods has rules for a god bestowing divine ranks on a follower. For something more ''mundane'', an influential noble family may simply be the puppet of an intelligent, monstrous and/or powerful creature, such as a Red Dragon or an Illithid Elder Brain.
I would personally use a lot of sci-fi tropes. A lot of the ''science'' is thinly veiled fantasy anyway, so adapting it to magic is not that hard. The questions I would be asking is what sort of cultural level you want to run the story in. Dark ages, Rennaissance or something more modern? Once you have that in mind, you can then flesh out other aspects of the campaign.
It's hard to justify Will of the Gods with a straight face when adventurers can knock over a noble house before lunchtime, and sometimes do. In all sense of the world.
The upheaval would require jumping through a lot of logical hoops to explain why gods favored the guy who took the throne ten years ago but now favor the guy who killed him and are going to favor the guy who replaces HIM in six or nine months and I'd leave that to people who want to play Warhammer. But it'd be fitting that people had moved past assuming the gods are behind everything and started looking at the science behind it (even if the science involves magic).
Heck, look at the modern-day mentality. Most people are aware of why it rains and why the moon waxes and wanes and similar basic science knowledge. It'd be safe to assume that the population in a magitech world (including the PCs), would have at least a basic knowledge of the nuts and bolts in magic.
The upheaval would require jumping through a lot of logical hoops to explain why gods favored the guy who took the throne ten years ago but now favor the guy who killed him and are going to favor the guy who replaces HIM in six or nine months and I'd leave that to people who want to play Warhammer. But it'd be fitting that people had moved past assuming the gods are behind everything and started looking at the science behind it (even if the science involves magic).
Heck, look at the modern-day mentality. Most people are aware of why it rains and why the moon waxes and wanes and similar basic science knowledge. It'd be safe to assume that the population in a magitech world (including the PCs), would have at least a basic knowledge of the nuts and bolts in magic.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
A deity does not need to be omniscient or all powerful to have an influence in the world. The plot of the Elder Scrolls:Oblivion game is centred around the innate divinity within the Emperors bloodline. Even Warhammer has the Emperor as a ''mortal'' proxy for Sigmar. The trope has something to do with the rw concept of divine right.
Of course, belief and fact are two different things. Perhaps a theme in a magitech world could revolve around a magical cold war or shadowplay. With various sides and factions attempting to seem more poweful than they really are, concealing their true strengths and using loads of propoganda to shape the will and minds of the general populace. Think 1984 meets the Wizard of Oz.
I am sure there are many different themes you can work with to create a homebrew world. Otherwise, pick up Eberron and prune out the things you don''t like.
Of course, belief and fact are two different things. Perhaps a theme in a magitech world could revolve around a magical cold war or shadowplay. With various sides and factions attempting to seem more poweful than they really are, concealing their true strengths and using loads of propoganda to shape the will and minds of the general populace. Think 1984 meets the Wizard of Oz.
I am sure there are many different themes you can work with to create a homebrew world. Otherwise, pick up Eberron and prune out the things you don''t like.
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TheFlatline
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Unless you go the Forgotten Realms route, where epic characters can go to level 40, but the big important Deus Vult noble families are all level 50 or otherwise untouchable, PC/super PC levels of power.Maxus wrote:It's hard to justify Will of the Gods with a straight face when adventurers can knock over a noble house before lunchtime, and sometimes do. In all sense of the world.
Technology leads to conglomeration. As the ability to make things becomes easier due to automation, it becomes more and more practical to mass-produce, and the individual artisan craftsman starts to go away.
The only way to avoid this is to represent your setting during a time when guilds still held sway, such as in the above-mentioned Renaissance era. Guilds were starting to go away, bu still held considerable sway.
The middle class will explode under a bustling magitech setting, and things that were once the sole propriety of the aristocratic elite becomes usable by the middle class: ie using magic to provide a hot water system, recordable music & "video", cooking, cleaning, healing, etc etc.
You'd have to consider revamping magic item creation away from using XP to create if you're going the 3.x route. Magical items will be mass-produced if possible, so while wands of fireballs & lightning bolts will be commonplace, the higher level magical items will still be relatively scarce.
Or you could take it in an intentionally opposite direction depending on how you wish to approach magic. You could have a deeply complicated cultural society that keeps things in a pseudo Victorian/Renaissance environment due to the influence of magic. There's just no reason to keep developing past a certain point because magic can "do it all". For an interesting take you could read the Black Jewels Trilogy by Anne Bishop. It's a novel approach to a society where magic has replaced technology by and large.
well, I really don't know the overall progress level I want, or what kind of culture I'm looking for. What I do have an idea for is what the PCs should get to do. The feel my friend and I were thinking of, is kind of allowing the players to take the reins of those early pioneers of the industrial revolution, playing Tesla or Edison or Ford. Innovating these grand, world changing inventions and techniques while society as a whole is slowing coming to grips with mass production and a market that's slowly globalizing. Colssen the gnome inventer has revolutionized weaponry by bringing affordable, deadly enchanted swords and crossbows to the people on a wide, easily available basis, but Easton, the rock star PC mage is gallivanting across the planes revolutionizing energy harnessing by setting up secure, safe portals linking the Elemental Plane of Fire and the Elemental Plane of Cold to a heat difference engine while his personal side arm is a lightning caster with a conduit to a perpetual storm in the Elemental Plane of Air giving him a constant powerful charge.
That kind of stuff is what PCs should be able to accomplish if they truly want to, without having to jump through hoops and blow the dm to be allowed to do. So what kind of time period is most conducive to that?
That kind of stuff is what PCs should be able to accomplish if they truly want to, without having to jump through hoops and blow the dm to be allowed to do. So what kind of time period is most conducive to that?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Victorian, sounds like. Up to the 1930's or so.
Last edited by Maxus on Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
ok, cool, that works. and it gives me the image of Dwarf gangsters with tommy crossbows or some ridiculous rule of funny/cool thing like that, which would simply be awesome to see...
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Mmhmm. In suits with fedorasPrak_Anima wrote:ok, cool, that works. and it gives me the image of Dwarf gangsters with tommy crossbows or some ridiculous rule of funny/cool thing like that, which would simply be awesome to see...
But I mean...from about early-mid 1800's to the 1930's as a time period. Look up on those, because that's when a lot of industrial revolution really got rolling.
I know you read Girl Genius, so you could go look at the prologue for how a city would look.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
you know I think that kind of milieu is really what I'm thinking, but rather than treating it as esoteric science it's acknowledged magic. Or I guess magic and science are, to the people of this magitech setting, the same thing.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Hey, science fiction is fantasy with electricity and bolts. I think the Foglios even describe it themselves as Gaslamp Fantasy...Prak_Anima wrote:you know I think that kind of milieu is really what I'm thinking, but rather than treating it as esoteric science it's acknowledged magic. Or I guess magic and science are, to the people of this magitech setting, the same thing.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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RiotGearEpsilon
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You may want to straight up adjust how the advancement mechanic works if you want this setting to make any sense. Like Frank says, you can't have a stable world when the 1-20 level up cycle is like a year. Slow that down to sane levels so that the universe can slide in to stable structures before you start figuring out what those structures are.
This is one of those things that Eberron does right - there just aren't a lot of Level 10+ guys running around curb-stomping the social structure. They don't encode this in to the setting because they think the idea of the experience point system reflecting genuine in-setting advancement physics is silly, but it's kind of a meme here at the Gaming Den so you should probably run with it.
This is one of those things that Eberron does right - there just aren't a lot of Level 10+ guys running around curb-stomping the social structure. They don't encode this in to the setting because they think the idea of the experience point system reflecting genuine in-setting advancement physics is silly, but it's kind of a meme here at the Gaming Den so you should probably run with it.
I've been trying to put together a bit of a "magitech" D&D setting myself, where it's basically fantasy with higher tech-levels, sort of industrial revolution-ish. Deities are almost just magical, immortalized politicians in a way, some being a bit more "deific" than others; one pantheon is just the higher-ups in the faerie courts. The separate economies are actually regulated and the trade of interplanar currency is a major element, as a setting based on the industrial revolution is of course going to put a bigger emphasis on the way business is done than your typical fantasy setting. And yeah, I've got a lot of corporations tossed in there, specializing in different sorts of magic items for instance. Also, being above like, level 5 is a real big deal, so generally there isn't too much instability; not to say that those who can afford them aren't riding around on charmed hydras all day.
Re: D&D Magitech setting, what's it need?
Did you check out the Eberron campaign setting? Seems to me that a lot of your topics have been covered in it already.Prak_Anima wrote:So if one was to take the basic D&D world, after working things out to make it make more internal sense, and make it high magic to the point of having magitech (I mean, using magic to mimic high technology and help drive/use basic tech. Like setting up a heat difference engine straddling a gate between the planes of fire and cold), what, other than fleshing out how magitech is used and what it can do mechanically, would the setting need to feel like a full world?
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RiotGearEpsilon
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I think it's a lot of the excess baggage that's made me not pay to much attention to eberron for this, I'll have to take a better look.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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RandomCasualty2
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Eberron's really not bad. It has a nice take on deities, and the races it adds seem to have a definite place in the world, with the exception of the changelings, who are just sorta "there" for no apparent reason.Prak_Anima wrote:I think it's a lot of the excess baggage that's made me not pay to much attention to eberron for this, I'll have to take a better look.
The whole dragonmark thing is a colossal waste of time, because the marks don't do anything anyone really cares about from what I saw.
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A Man In Black
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In 3e, true. In 4e, half of the marks are concentrated superawesome and if they had been racial feats they would have made the corresponding races into übermenschen for the related class(es).RandomCasualty2 wrote:The whole dragonmark thing is a colossal waste of time, because the marks don't do anything anyone really cares about from what I saw.
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Username17
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Eberron fits together except for the economics and assumed power levels. Which basically makes it feel like they did the easy parts of world building and then told you to wing it.
Production, farming, warfare, politics, social class, trade, shipping, technological progress, and wealth accumulation are all completely incoherent. There isn't a satisfying answer for why everyone doesn't starve to death after a couple of manticores come out and snipe all the people weeding the wheat fields.
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Production, farming, warfare, politics, social class, trade, shipping, technological progress, and wealth accumulation are all completely incoherent. There isn't a satisfying answer for why everyone doesn't starve to death after a couple of manticores come out and snipe all the people weeding the wheat fields.
Well, and the Shifters. Those guys are a puzzling waste of time. An entire set of subraces whose only purpose is to provide min/max options for fighters. And the Witchknives. And the Rhinogoblins. Really, the only Eberron Race they made a compelling case for are Mr. Roboto over there.RC2 wrote:Eberron's really not bad. It has a nice take on deities, and the races it adds seem to have a definite place in the world, with the exception of the changelings, who are just sorta "there" for no apparent reason.
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The shifters suck, big-time.
I also don't like the Kalashtar because the flavor is cool, but the mechanics suck.
Warforged are cool, but I'll admit to getting more bang for my buck playing a Changeling.
I also don't like the Kalashtar because the flavor is cool, but the mechanics suck.
Warforged are cool, but I'll admit to getting more bang for my buck playing a Changeling.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
Of the races introduced I like the "Idea" behind the Kalashtar the most. Their fluff, is only closely matched by the 'forged in my book. To me shifters were just an excuse to make furries. I haven't heard a single peep out of my players when it comes to Changelings and I myself can't recall ever planting one in an adventure (what with wholesale dopples to drop in) Though I like the setting as a whole. There are a lot of bits and pieces here and there that I enjoy.Maxus wrote:The shifters suck, big-time.
I also don't like the Kalashtar because the flavor is cool, but the mechanics suck.
Warforged are cool, but I'll admit to getting more bang for my buck playing a Changeling.
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RiotGearEpsilon
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I don't think there are a lot of manticores and manticore-equivalents in Eberron. It's a setting with a lot of weird esoteric one-offs fitting in the corners somewhere, but there seems to be a bias towards 'negotiable' evils - things you can talk to, bribe, etc.FrankTrollman wrote:There isn't a satisfying answer for why everyone doesn't starve to death after a couple of manticores come out and snipe all the people weeding the wheat fields.