Most Legitimately Difficult Modules Ever?

[Kaelik]

It's simple really, Paranoi is retarded.

He's basically crowing about how it's the most difficult module ever because one part of it says "All the Players die here no matter what."

because... Well, because apparently DM Fiat death makes something hard instead of bullshit, you know, like the OP says, "Not bullshit, but actually challenging."

[hogarth]

What do you mean by "three real world seconds"? I haven't played Paranoia. Is there some link between RL time and game time?

Paranoia modules have all kinds of gimmicks that wouldn't necessarily be in the (loosey-goosey) rules.

I would probably exclude from this (rather silly) discussion games like Paranoia or Call of Cthulhu where you're frequently expected to die or fail.

[duo31]

Labyrinth of Madness

Crazy difficult. Messes with a number of auto win strategies and forces parties to think and communicate well. Some bullshitery, but mostly there to give the creepy vibe.

Only real annoyance is that you have to backtrack a lot, and search everything multiple times.

Is good if you want a real challenge.

[Antumbra]

The first part of the Age of Worms (lvls 1-3) has a decent shot at a TPK - a beetle swarm which does additional acid damage is just the beginning.

The swarm has a 1d6 + either 1d4 acid (DC11 fort half) or 1d6+1d4+1d4(save half) attack. Then the usual swarm traits, nauseate, high AC and okay HP. It's slow, but you fight it in a small room, after a semi-bitch of a trap - get into lift, lift shakes "as though something is going to give way" or an old lift is about to move, DC12 or 6d6 falling+you fall into the swarm, low DC, but still not cool. There's another lift trap, but it's obvious.

I forgot that a 26hp "rogue-like" monster with Whirlwind Attack attacks at the same time. It's fast.

This is a level 1 encounter - the second one in fact. You get two rounds to hear the approach, so on-the-ball players get a good warning.

Later in the adventure:

• An underwater fight with a Water Elemental and maybe a Ghoul.
  
  Brown Mold!
  
  A climb up a 40ft shaft which leads to a Hold Person+Gust of Wind trap (they lowered the CR, because you are supposed to realise it's there and light a bunch of torches to turn it off)
  
  A room that spits solid iron balls at you as you cross a narrow bridge (you would be forgiven for expecting to meet Takeshi at the end - other groups have just sold the iron and won DnD) if you fall, there's a Grick in the pit and a Ghost that you are supposed to know not to screw with (it attacks a little at the start, just to make you listen - if you attack it, it kills one of you to make a point and calm you down)
  
  There's also some hardcore Wind Knights with 80ft flight, 39hp and ranged attacks - their stuff crumbles to nothingness when they die, they have S-TWF and you also fight them on the edge of a pit.

That's about 3/4ths of the encounters for the first half of the first adventure. Summary of the next part:

• A wounded Owlbear (only 52 HP)
  
  An EL6 adventurer-on-"adventurer" barfight that "will be very challenging, unless the PCs set up an ambush"
  
  A little undead bastard with good AC, Quickness and Disease (Tomb Mote, and I'm overstating a little) and a good skeleton fortification (crossbows, cover and poison)
  
  Boss fight with an L3 Wizard, three Trog Zombies and a Bugbear Zombie - he apparantly used scrolls to make them, which means he's loaded and has 17+ undead under his control.

How's that for lethal? I don't expect that a solid party of Den-style (or perhaps, Den-level) players would easily wipe out, but there are a dozen places to TPK, even moreso than usual for a first-level game. .

[TheFlatline]

It's simple really, Paranoi is retarded.

He's basically crowing about how it's the most difficult module ever because one part of it says "All the Players die here no matter what."

because... Well, because apparently DM Fiat death makes something hard instead of bullshit, you know, like the OP says, "Not bullshit, but actually challenging."

Actually, the quest doesn't actually say "all players die here no matter what".

They're put in a situation which *could* kill them if they did nothing, and probably half of their options *will* kill them.

The screwy part is that the options that most people would opt for are the ones that kill you.

And saying one gaming system or another is retarded on this board is like saying that you reject water because it's wet. Every gaming system in existence is retarded on The Gaming Den. We're like the incredibly nerdy version of those art critics that professionally hate everything. And we're ultimately about as relevant.

[Korwin]

Never played Paranoia. But isnt it that System where the Players are expected to kill each other?

And then comes an Clone from an limited supply?
Isnt it the Point of the Game to kill the players?

[Koumei]

There are puzzles in the module with scattered and subtle contextual clues and no set explanation,

Like that door puzzle in WLD. Man, that was a really clever one.

[erik]

I resist this poorly veiled attempt to get innocents to look at the World's Largest Dungeon.

[Koumei]

No really, that door was a crazy challenge. You really needed to be paying attention to the clues scattered about beforehand. Just ask Kaelik.

[Falgund]

Never played Paranoia. But isnt it that System where the Players are expected to kill each other?

And then comes an Clone from an limited supply?
Isnt it the Point of the Game to kill the players?

Well, the point of the game is to have fun. This includes Dwarf fortress definition of fun.

So Yes.

[Ganbare Gincun]

My favorite old-school D&D modules are probably the Secret Of Bone Hill and The Isle Of Dread. Not necessarily the most difficult modules, but very entertaining in the right hands nevertheless.

Really? The Isle of Dread has a really terrible reputation.

Being well-prepared before you head into the final encounter at the center of the island really helps. But if I recall correctly (keep in mind that this was over ten years ago), our main ace in the hole was having a Paladin in the party and keeping multiple Protection From Evil effects going simultaneously during the final battle against the Kopru so we wouldn't get Dominated.