The World of Warcraft hate thread.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:12 pm

It doesn't necessarily make him a hypocrite. No one wants to bet the only person to give out his name. Then it just makes you a target.

But yeah, other than that, I'm not a big fan of putting my information out there.

Artless · Post by **Artless** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:06 pm

As expected, Blizzard is rolling the announcement back from full-on ridiculous to slightly less-so.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 7278&sid=1

I never really cared about the change to begin with, as my account was banned from the forums when Burning Crusade launched. Just wanted to let anyone who hasn't seen this know about it.

Count Arioch the 28th · Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:06 pm

Kaelik wrote:
So put your life where your mouth is, either recant your stupidity or post your full legal name.

I will if you do it.

I'm serious. If you change your screen name to your full legal name, I will do so as well. fbmf can change if, just send him a PM.

If you recant your stupidity, I can't promise I'll do anything but take you off ignore.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:26 pm

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I will if you do it.

I'm serious. If you change your screen name to your full legal name, I will do so as well. fbmf can change if, just send him a PM.

If you recant your stupidity, I can't promise I'll do anything but take you off ignore.

Hey dumbfuck asshole. I'm not the one claiming that personal privacy is the source of all problems in the universe. I already specifically fucking said that I do not want my employers knowing that I play D&D. How the fuck is the fact that by revealing my full name on a D&D site I might get fired supposed to prove your point that me being able to keep my job while also playing D&D is a bad thing?

You are the one who thinks that no possible bad outcomes could come about by revealing the identity of everyone.

This is just you making empty posturing motions to someone who already told you that their boss would attempt to fire them over being an evil satanist.

I am a public avowed atheist on forums. I am a public avowed atheist in my personal life. I am not a public avowed atheist at my job, because it is not their fucking business and has no effect on my ability to do my job. None the less my fucking boss would make my life hell, and either stupidly attempt to fire me, find out he can't, and then try his hardest to punish me for his mistake, or just skip to punishing me and riding me in an attempt to get me fired.

The fact that you make empty stupid challenges of people to do something that they just said is a bad thing is fucking retarded. There are a multitude of bad consequences, and the fact that I find out my boss is a member of the hello kitty fanclub does not save me from being in a shitty position in hypothetical no privacy land.

So either man up and give me your fucking home address so I can not torture you, or don't, but nothing in your hypothetical no privacy land prevents me from anonymously making your life miserable every time you piss me off, so if you are so willing to accept fake pizza calls just so you can what? Torture me back? Get me fired? Then you should be willing to accept it to prove your point, that nothing bad can come from no privacy on the internet.

PhaedrusXY · Post by **PhaedrusXY** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:41 pm

Kaelik wrote:Slow your roll. If he isn't willing to give me his home address right now for any reason he is a hypocrite, because knowing my home address does nothing to stop me from terrorizing him, signing him up for shitty news letters, or ordering 30 pizzas in his name. There are a lot of good reasons for privacy on the internet, and evil asshole Kaelik asking for your address is sure going to help him come up with them.

Dude... I haven't laughed that hard in weeks...

I fully agree that Arioch's idea is one of the worst proposals I've ever heard/read/whatever, also. I think we might be slightly better off reanimating Hilter as a mummy and declaring him eternal ruler of the earth.

Also: Godwin'd.

Murtak · Post by **Murtak** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:46 pm

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I think everyone on the internet would have to share their real name and address before even getting on.

One of my biggest problems is that people act different when they're cowering behind a modem. Everyone's a badass, every throws out death threats and whatever. I think in this day and age, no one should be anonymous, and if someone receives a threat or harassment over the internet you should be able to get the name instantly and report it to the police.

Think this through. So people are not anonymous on the net. Great. What makes you think they are unable to harass you anonymously in real life? All you are doing is to shift harassment from the net to real life.

And that is not even going into the importance of anonymity for non-gaming purposes, or the technical impossibility of requiring everyone to submit their name. Seriously, what you are proposing is technically impossible, detrimental to both the original intention of the net and what we use it for and enables real-life stalking.

And you can't even be sure it would actually cause people to be nice to each other. Frank uses his real name, and he can be an opinionated asshole all day long and then some. Kaelik can be a dick, but I suspect he wouldn't change much if he posted under his real name. As for myself, the only thing that would change is that I would stop posting altogether. Not because I care about anyone on this forum knowing who flamed them, but because I do not want my real name to pop up next to gaming forums when my employer searches for it. I am sure we have someone on this forum who is 15 years old (or 60 years for that matter) and does not care for us to know it, because we'd treat them differently because of that knowledge. Each of us has the opportunity to build his own reputation here and to be judged entirely on the merit of his posts, and they can do so without fear of it spilling over into other aspects of their life.

If that means getting flamed and insulted, even regularly, I am fine with it. We do have chat handles for a reason. We can still identify who is worthwhile to listen to and who is not. We just can't use it to call the cops on them, harass them or tell their employers about it.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:17 pm

Well, that stupid idea came and went fairly quickly.

I'm not sure who managed to type up that forum post without thinking, 'gosh, is this a good idea?' It's not like WoW keys are the most stolen on the internet and have security higher than most banks.

We live in a day and age where anything you say connected to your name can be found. So why would you want anything you say and do in your off hours connected to your real name? Not all of us have the intestinal fortitude of Frank.

-Crissa

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:27 pm

Technically, you can call the police and they can track down 'anonymous' comments. It's done every day.

The biggest problem is when this is misused - like employers firing people for being politically active or daring to have an opinion about the place they work. Or when police request information they should not have.

Sprint received over four million requests of location data from celphones last year alone.

The amount of data out there is staggering, and the implications haven't yet been dealt with. And we don't have laws about this stuff because the people in charge of making/determining those laws don't understand the technology at all.

However, the way it is right now is that if you were able to print out a stack of papers with Frank's threats on them, go to a state court, you could get a court order for him not to come within a mile of you. We both know that Frank often points out that he wouldn't actually carry out these threats - but it isn't a person who uses the internet that is making that determination. It's a low level Judge who has a hundred cases to see today. And the law says that if Frank doesn't show up in court, the Judge must rule against him. Then you can take that court order and ply against every police and private security near you, and basically block him from public places for the next three years.

It's important that we have these tools. But right now they are not strong enough to withstand abuse from our connected world.

-Crissa

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:27 pm

PhaedrusXY wrote: I fully agree that Arioch's idea is one of the worst proposals I've ever heard/read/whatever, also. I think we might be slightly better off reanimating Hilter as a mummy and declaring him eternal ruler of the earth.

Yeah, next he'll be saying that medical records and psychiatric evaluations should be public domain too.

Count Arioch the 28th · Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:12 am

With all due respect, I don't know why people are being rude to me. I will concede that I didn't think of every angle (mostly because my bosses all know that I play D&D and my interest in Norse Paganism, and I don't always consider the fact that most bosses aren't as uncaring as mine.) However, I never said that "internet privacy was the source of all the evil in the world", and I didn't say that nothing bad could come from knowing who people are.

I am a reasonable man, you can state your opposition in a polite tone and I will listen.

I was going to change my SN to my real name, but I do nothing because Kaelik ordered me to, as I don't recognize his dominance. He's every school bully that would threaten me to stop doing things and failed. If being threatened with rape and beatings didn't stop me from doing things when I was outnumbered 10 to 1 when I was 14, it's not going to work when it's one on one. Really, he's nothing special.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:22 am

If being threatened with rape and beatings didn't stop me from doing things when I was outnumbered 10 to 1 when I was 14, it's not going to work when it's one on one. Really, he's nothing special.

If being threatened with rape and beatings

rape and beatings

rape

Not sure if exaggeration.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:27 am

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I was going to change my SN to my real name, but I do nothing because Kaelik ordered me to, as I don't recognize his dominance. He's every school bully that would threaten me to stop doing things and failed. If being threatened with rape and beatings didn't stop me from doing things when I was outnumbered 10 to 1 when I was 14, it's not going to work when it's one on one. Really, he's nothing special.

I don't want your screen name to be your real name, I want you to back yourself up, and it just so happens that telling me your real name is something that might make you fucking think for six seconds about the fact that it might not be a good idea.

And since what I said was "either recant your stupidity or ..."

And since you just recanted, it appears that I am actually every school bully who made you do exactly what they wanted.

Seriously Count, you need to get over your obsession with me. I'm not every person who ever picked on you, I'm not your mean abusive daddy, and I'm not trying to make you do what I want.

I'm just someone who doesn't care about the shit you care about, and is not going to pretend I do to be nice.

Post by **fbmf** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:52 am

Kaelik wrote:
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I will if you do it.

I'm serious. If you change your screen name to your full legal name, I will do so as well. fbmf can change if, just send him a PM.

If you recant your stupidity, I can't promise I'll do anything but take you off ignore.
Hey dumbfuck asshole. I'm not the one claiming that personal privacy is the source of all problems in the universe.

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Neither is Arioch.

I'm going to ask you just one more time to calm down. In any official capacity this time.
[/TGFBS]

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:57 am

fbmf wrote:[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Neither is Arioch.

I'm going to ask you just one more time to calm down. In any official capacity this time.
[/TGFBS]

If you are going to ask me something in an official capacity, it had better be more clear than that, because "calm down" is pretty meaningless in this context.

A Man In Black · Post by **A Man In Black** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:20 am

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:With all due respect, I don't know why people are being rude to me. I will concede that I didn't think of every angle (mostly because my bosses all know that I play D&D and my interest in Norse Paganism, and I don't always consider the fact that most bosses aren't as uncaring as mine.) However, I never said that "internet privacy was the source of all the evil in the world", and I didn't say that nothing bad could come from knowing who people are.

I am a reasonable man, you can state your opposition in a polite tone and I will listen.

I was going to change my SN to my real name, but I do nothing because Kaelik ordered me to, as I don't recognize his dominance. He's every school bully that would threaten me to stop doing things and failed. If being threatened with rape and beatings didn't stop me from doing things when I was outnumbered 10 to 1 when I was 14, it's not going to work when it's one on one. Really, he's nothing special.

Well, mostly people are being rude because you're defending a gobsmackingly terrible idea and insulting people with bad ideas is the local style.

Kaelik isn't threatening you. Let me illustrate the argument as I see it.

The Roleplaying Living Room wrote:Duke: I think it's okay to live at the foot of a live volcano, because of [advantages].

Leakil: [Advantages] aren't real or aren't very advantageous and also YOU'RE GOING TO FUCKING GET SET ON FIRE.

Duke: Are you threatening me?

Passersby: Duke, you are a fucking moron.

In this case, crazy people are lava. No, I'm sure you don't think crazy people will fall on you. They probably won't. That doesn't suddenly make tempting fate a good idea.

-edit-

And incidentally, this is speaking as someone whose real name is tied to his screen name.

Murtak · Post by **Murtak** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:39 am

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:However, I never said that "internet privacy was the source of all the evil in the world", and I didn't say that nothing bad could come from knowing who people are.

I am a reasonable man, you can state your opposition in a polite tone and I will listen.

You said the net would be better if real names were available for everyone. That is obviously bullshit, as has been pointed out a dozen times in about as many posts. But I don't see you responding to those points. All I see is you complaining about someone being rude to you. If you have a point at all, respond to ours. If you only want to talk to people who haven't called you a names, respond to mine. If you have no point, maybe it is time to admit you are wrong.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:51 am

Count, suck it up and admit you were wrong without shitting on about Kaelik's irrelevant douchebaggery. That is the most obviously terrible idea ever because it is so completely asymmetric. I know Frank's name and can probably arrange a large amount of harassment if I wanted to be a fuckbag. Imagining for a second that I was posting with my real name Frank would still have no recourse. He wouldn't know which TDG member called the cops on him, he wouldn't even know that it was a TDG member.

The only free speech in anonymous speech.

Count Arioch the 28th · Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:54 pm

Count Arioch the 28th wrote: I will concede that I didn't think of every angle (mostly because my bosses all know that I play D&D and my interest in Norse Paganism, and I don't always consider the fact that most bosses aren't as uncaring as mine.)

I did concede that I hadn't considered everything. Good form would dictate that you be a gracious winner and stop demanding I admit I was wrong when I already did so.

I already have "sucked it up". I'm not addressing anyone's points because I am conceding the argument. If you are asking me to itemize everything and grovel about every single point you are going to be disappointed because I already have given the boards more than any of you ever would.

Count Arioch the 28th · Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:58 pm

Murtak wrote:If you have no point, maybe it is time to admit you are wrong.

If you look 6 posts up from this post that I have quoted, you will find that I admitted I was wrong. This is how people learn, they make an assertion, it gets discussed, then if it is found the assertion was a poor one it is discarded.

THIS is why there aren't any new posters. I politely stated something, and you people are attacking me. the attacks are uncalled for, and the repeated demands for me to admit I was wrong long after I admitted I was are also uncalled for. Everyone has said things that were wrong, and I don't think any of you were treated like this.

Count Arioch the 28th · Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:04 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:
If being threatened with rape and beatings didn't stop me from doing things when I was outnumbered 10 to 1 when I was 14, it's not going to work when it's one on one. Really, he's nothing special.

If being threatened with rape and beatings

rape and beatings

rape
Not sure if exaggeration.

I was never raped, but I was threatened with it semi-regularly. The idea that the hicks at my high school got in my head was that I was a homosexual because I was friends with a special-needs kid from when we were both in middle school all the way to today.

It seems that ignorant country people think that if someone is gay, threatening to rape them is a way to prove how gay they are. I literally wish this was something I was creative enough to make up.

In all honesty, my friend got it much worse. A couple thugs bribed the special education aide to leave the room for ten minutes while two of them put the kid in the hospital. the aide lost his job but only after the school got sued.

Post by **fbmf** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:41 pm

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Arioch admitted he was wrong. Let's move on.

Kaelik, you are an intelligent person. What do you think "calm down" means in this instance? (Hint: See my previous, related post a few up from the official one.)
[/TGFBS]

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:13 pm

fbmf wrote:[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Arioch admitted he was wrong. Let's move on.

Kaelik, you are an intelligent person. What do you think "calm down" means in this instance? (Hint: See my previous, related post a few up from the official one.)
[/TGFBS]

I am an intelligent person, so I can smell bullshit.

It could mean, "Stop cussing" in which case... That would be a double standard.

It could mean, "Stop insulting other posters" in which case, double standard.

It could mean, "Stop using hyperbole in support of your points" in which case, double standard. (Alternatively, if you've never read anything I've ever posted, you might believe it to be a strawman instead, but you know, even calling me on that would be a double standard.)

In this case, what it actually means is "I am more put off by your posts than usual, but I can't articulate what specifically is off putting here, but normally acceptable, so I'm just going to use vague meaningless statements that imply my general offputtedness, and expect you to read my mind so well that you can stop doing something that is so on the line that I can't even articulate it."

Which is why I am pointing out that I cannot stop doing something because you tell me to, unless you actually tell me to. Until that time, I reserve the right to continue doing whatever it is that is generally offputting you, though of course, I probably won't, since I got what I wanted, which was for Count to reconsider his position.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:03 am

How about "Stop spitting vitriol when your 'opponent' has already backed down and the argument should therefore be over"?

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:42 am

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I was never raped, but I was threatened with it semi-regularly. The idea that the hicks at my high school got in my head was that I was a homosexual because I was friends with a special-needs kid from when we were both in middle school all the way to today.

It seems that ignorant country people think that if someone is gay, threatening to rape them is a way to prove how gay they are. I literally wish this was something I was creative enough to make up.

In all honesty, my friend got it much worse. A couple thugs bribed the special education aide to leave the room for ten minutes while two of them put the kid in the hospital. the aide lost his job but only after the school got sued.

Your childhood was much worse than mine.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:03 am

Koumei wrote:How about "Stop spitting vitriol when your 'opponent' has already backed down and the argument should therefore be over"?

At what point does calling me "every single bully" that has ever been mean to him, and claiming that I threatened him with rape and beatings "backing down"?

You might also note that fbmf choose to quote something I said before "backed down" and told me to stop doing whatever it is, so apparently my post after he backed down from being wrong to just calling me a rapist was totally acceptable.