The Official "4e Critique and Rebuttal" Thread

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:36 am

Torko wrote:But the fire spell shouldn't actually cause someone to catch on fire. Just make them a little tired.

I cannot determine whether or not you are being facetious.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:45 am

Here's why I fucking hate 4rries. This is probably too close to a laugh/cry/whatever thread, but my rage. Oh, my rage.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:55 am

What. The. Bloody. Fuck. I want the cut out 'interesting informative discussion' after that fuckfest.

Hieronymous Rex · Post by **Hieronymous Rex** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:05 am

hogarth wrote:
violence in the media wrote: If you want characters to sleep each day, put in rules for not doing so. If you want them only using certain powers once a day, do that. Don't try and conflate the two goals.
If you're talking to Gary Gygax, you're about 30 years too late. Like it or not, the D&D wizard's bullshit Vancian system of memorizing spells and then needing to rest in order to rememorize them has been constant across all editions.

If I may nitpick, "true" Vancian (that is, like it worked in the fiction written by Vance) doesn't require a rest at all; spells simply take a certain time to prepare, and you can re-prepare as many times as you want.

That being said, I despise any mechanic based on scenes/plot points/etc..

EDIT: Want to know MORE? WAY MORE?

RiotGearEpsilon · Post by **RiotGearEpsilon** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:44 pm

Hieronymous Rex wrote:If I may nitpick, "true" Vancian (that is, like it worked in the fiction written by Vance) doesn't require a rest at all; spells simply take a certain time to prepare, and you can re-prepare as many times as you want.

"True" Vancian is also awesome because your spells are more like small air-to-ground missiles or surreal ongoing mutations you pick up. You only get like 4 and every one of them will be completely fucking astounding.

For Valor · Post by **For Valor** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:47 pm

PR, I can see a lot of reasons for hating 4rries in that thread.

Was there any one in particular you wanted to point out? Or are we just supposed to seethe in fury at the thread in general?

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:34 pm

Seethe in fury at the cult-like nature of their devotion to the game.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:53 am

Psychic Robot wrote:

Here's why I fucking hate 4rries. This is probably too close to a laugh/cry/whatever thread, but my rage. Oh, my rage.

You got trolled, you stupid fuck.

Quit getting mad at /tg/ posts.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:58 am

Implying that they were trolling and not being typical 4rries.

For Valor · Post by **For Valor** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:11 am

a) That might be true, Mask, but the comments sound normal enough. A bunch of people who barely skim the responses, repeat what was said before, and reboot the whole argument... looks like your average forum to me.

b) What's /tg/?

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:14 am

For Valor wrote:
b) What's /tg/?

It stands for Traditional Games, it's a section on 4chan.

For Valor · Post by **For Valor** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:15 am

oh.... that's why none of the responses are unreasonable not worth shit.

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:16 am

For Valor wrote:b) What's /tg/?

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:00 am

Psychic Robot wrote:Implying that they were trolling and not being typical 4rries.

>Implying there's a difference. Also, implying you can imply without greentext.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:22 am

>Implying your mom.

For Valor · Post by **For Valor** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:30 am

>Implying total derailment of the thread.

A Man In Black · Post by **A Man In Black** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:58 pm

implying

Fucking summer.

TheWorid · Post by **TheWorid** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:36 pm

>implying implications

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:07 pm

TIME FOR SOME THREAD NECROMANCY.

I will occasionally head over to the 4e general forums just to see what kind of crazy shit they're cooking up, and believe it or not, we've got a lot of it today. I'm not going to link the threads, but I'm going to quote some of the most egregious "4e is a shitty videogame" offenders.

Some Newbie About to Get Sodomized wrote:I'm new to 4e, but it seems to me like most of the powers are entirely focused on combat. I tried to use one of my powers (Chill Wind) to blow away some smoke that was obscuring my view and the DM asked me what does it say on the power card. Obviously the real effects of the power are not described, just the combat advantages. I play to role play more than for combat gaming and I think my powers should have real life effects outside of combat. How do other people feel on this topic?

Cancer wrote:I believe that going off of the flavor text is a very poor method of deciding what powers "really" do, because a basic assumption is that you take mechanical actions and the effects are then made to jibe with the mechanical results. Trying to run it the other way is where you get the guys whining that "hamstring" doesn't eternally cripple anyone it hits.

Cancer wrote:They can certainly be useful as inspirations, but trying to use attack powers to do things cultivates an excessively limiting mindset on the one hand and throws the math out of whack on the other.

Cancer wrote:Because the smoke is an obstacle, therefore overcoming it requires effort, not having picked an at-will that happens to have a vaguely related name.

Which isn't to say that the use of your more impressive abilities doesn't have its place out of combat. You want to blow a daily power on the thing? Yeah, in that case, automatic success against a related obstacle is probably warranted.

4e is a videogame written for autistics.

Sarandosil · Post by **Sarandosil** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:58 pm

Psychic Robot wrote: 4e is a videogame written for autistics.

When did this start becoming a popular insult? I don't ever recall seeing this before like two years ago.

Also fuck you.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:10 am

Also fuck you.

'Sperg rush detected.

Molochio · Post by **Molochio** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:49 am

While this thread is a fine sentiment, those who contribute lack the focus required for it's deliberation.

My critique of 4e is that it is a cheap, and rather transparent marketing ploy, to increase income via system overhaul.
This will ideally lead to the reproduction of all 3e books with new and, in some cases, inferior playability, and their subsequent purchase by the victims.

Thereafter, the hapless lemmings will be railroaded into buying 4e, the 4e magic card, add ons, 4.5e, the associated books and cards, 5e, and so on...

How distasteful.

Krakatoa · Post by **Krakatoa** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:18 am

Oh my gosh, Wizards of the Coast putting out a product to make money! Those bastards!

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:07 am

Molochio wrote: My critique of 4e is that it is a cheap, and rather transparent marketing ploy, to increase income via system overhaul.

Honestly, 4E or something like it needed to happen anyway. Even though I like 3E, the fact is that by the end of its lifecycle it had become a near-unplayable kludge of crap due to people compounding on its initial errors.

Of course the morons who started out making 3.5E worse than 3.0E and then driving it into the ground ended up running the asylum anyway. So our dream edition didn't happen. Even though I firmly believe that RPG writing is a skill that you have to practice, the lack of improvement in the usual stable of WotC idiots (Collins, Slavicsek, Mearls, Wyatt, Cordell) and the baffling shark-jumping of a couple of others (Heinsoo, Noonan) I would rather take my chances with an entirely new crew than give them another chance.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:07 am

I am wondering, with all the big names failing to make true improvements on their systems why there hasn't been a flood of third party publishers flooding the market with better quality/ innovative and new / self styled improvements on systems that already exist. If I recall there was a bunch of shit flying out with 3rd why haven't we seen the same with WW, SR, and WOTC all collectively fucking up?