You are not talking about Factotum. You are talking about chameleon, which is actually a fairly cool class.Danchild wrote:The factotum is a shitty spellcaster with a floating feat. Item creation. That brings a lot more to the party than rogue.
1) Ninjas and spellthieves suck. They have fewer skill points, less bonus dice (note the halflling rogue substitution level), and generally just suck ass.As for the flask rogue who gives a fuck? It may as well be the flask ninja, the flask scout or the flask spellthief. If your gonna spam alchemical items, you may as well play a wizard and shrink item/telekenisis. Fuck, the factotum can use the same tactic at a higher level and not be commited to that particular build.
2) Wizards are awesome. This is common knowledge.
Straw man. Everything that makes a factotum viable makes the rogue an even more unstoppable death machine. If you take away everything that makes the factotum remotely viable, the rogue is *still* a death machine against most of the monster manual.Making a pronouncement that the rogue is somehow better because it is core is a null argument when comparing it to a non-core class.
Again, nobody gives two shits about versatility. Power is power. Versatility is versatility. Wizards and clerics are powerful because they are powerful. The fact that they are *also* versatile is another issue. If people thought versatility was power, people wouldn't think frenzied berserkers are good. You are wrong and stupid.Danchild wrote:Damage is not greater than versatility. Options are power. Factotum has more options than rogue.
100% of this argument applies to the Iajutsu factotum, but more so because the factotum also needs to worry about being in melee.The whole "I can sneak attack all day" argument is made of fail. It reminds me of the old Fighter vs Wizard argument.
"B-but that fighter can swing a sword all day! The Wizard has to prepare..."
Never mind the resources involved. Anything immune to critical hits is going to ignore those few extra d6's. Anything incoporeal is going to ignore missiles flying through it. Anything that can fly or teleport can easily stay out the rogue's range of efficacy. Anything with concealment is immune to sneak attack. Claiming that the one strength of the rogue functions all the time is a fucking lie.
And no, factotum spellcasting is so shitty that we're not even going to discuss it as a combat option.
A variety of shitty tools. A rogue has 1 good tool that with the addition of ONE book (spell compendium) works on every monster ever except oozes (nobody cares) and elementals (add on a second book to take savvy rogue and all the sudden elementals aren't a problem either).The factotum can have tools for a variety of occasions. Never mind that they are shitty tools. Never mind there are shitty conditions on those shitty tools. The same can not be said of the rogue. The proponents of rogue in this debate keep relying on the fact that rogues can deal conditional damage, that somehow that makes the rogue more versatile than the factotum. That is not a strength. It is a major limitation.
You have never played EITHER class. You don't know what you're talking about. Shut the fuck up before you embarrass yourself more.