The Dragon Disciple

[User3]

1175589707[/unixtime]]
You do realize that with that much strength, magic curls up in the corner and weeps, right? Because with that much strength, you do enough damage to literally destroy the earth with a single punch (assuming you wear gauntlets or are a Monk or something, so you can do lethal damage ). In fact, you could probably destroy the entire inhabited area of most planes with a punch like that.

This is a substantial understatement.

A Strength of 855 is enough to pick up the entire observable universe. The human mind is in no way capable of comprehending what it would be possible to do with a Strength of 8*10^300.

[Digestor]

Wha?

*enter bad math here*

Is that really enough to carry the ENTIRE OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE...?

Especially since weight is just the amount of force being applied in a given direction, and that when you start putting things together it all changes drastically?

[Cielingcat]

Weight in D&D is a measure of how much you can carry on earth, which means 2.2 pounds is ~1 kg. So that there is roughly 1.1*10^103 kg, which is significantly more than the mass of the observable universe. Either by about 1000 times, or 1 million times, since I forget if the universe is ~10^100 kg or ~10^100 g.

[shau]

Even if it was enough strength, you still need a place to stand...

[Digestor]

1175648989[/unixtime]]Weight in D&D is a measure of how much you can carry on earth, which means 2.2 pounds is ~1 kg. So that there is roughly 1.1*10^103 kg, which is significantly more than the mass of the observable universe. Either by about 1000 times, or 1 million times, since I forget if the universe is ~10^100 kg or ~10^100 g.

Where are you guys getting that number of 10^100kg of the entire universe?

[AlphaNerd]

Obviously not from wikipedia.

[MrWaeseL]

Is that really enough to carry the ENTIRE OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE...?

Your load increases exponentially: 2^str/4

[Digestor]

1175651151[/unixtime]]Obviously not from wikipedia.

I actually entered 'weight of the observable universe' and found to good yields...

Wow... those numbers really aren't as gigantic as I would think... guess this was a topic we didn't go over in astronomy or physics... bleh.

[User3]

1175651151[/unixtime]]Obviously not from wikipedia.

Yeah, that would be the number I was using.

Increasing your Strength by 5 always doubles your carrying capacity (as long as it was at least 10 to start with). So a Strength of 855 allows you to carry 2^[(855-10)/5]=2^169=7.4e50 times as much as a Strength of 10--this works out to a heavy load approximately the size of the observable universe.

The stupid part is, the corresponding damage modifier isn't actually large enough to guarantee that you kill, say, a max-HD whale (36 HD, Con 26 means they average 486 HP before stat pumps)

-Micah

[Digestor]

logistics and dragons

[Judging__Eagle]

1175654460[/unixtime]]

1175651151[/unixtime]]Obviously not from wikipedia.

Yeah, that would be the number I was using.

Increasing your Strength by 5 always doubles your carrying capacity (as long as it was at least 10 to start with). So a Strength of 855 allows you to carry 2^[(855-10)/5]=2^169=7.4e50 times as much as a Strength of 10--this works out to a heavy load approximately the size of the observable universe.

The stupid part is, the corresponding damage modifier isn't actually large enough to guarantee that you kill, say, a max-HD whale (36 HD, Con 26 means they average 486 HP before stat pumps)

-Micah

Hit it twice.

It was trying to dodge.

[Brobdingnagian]

The Strength stat in D&D isn't dumb.

A really, really high Strength sat in D&D is dumb.

[Username17]

Increasing your Strength by 5 always doubles your carrying capacity (as long as it was at least 10 to start with).

Not quite. It always doubles your carrying capacity so long as it was already 25 or more to start with. It only

So starting at the 25 mark and multiplying by 9.35*10^49 we get a light load of 2.488*10^52 pounds, and a 7.483*10^52 pounds. That's 3.39 * 10^55 grams.

That's actually almost exactly the mass of the observable universe, which comes in at 3 * 10^55 grams.

Now the entire universe is much more massive than that. You'll never pick it all up with that strength because it's literally orders of magnitude larger than your ability to lift things.

-Username17

[Prak]

1175325314[/unixtime]]I put this up on the WotC boards some time back, but I got absolutely no responses. I figure here I might get something.

plus you'll actually get a knowledgable critique or two... and it won't turn into a giant flamefest...

So here it is, the Dragon Disciple fix. Also, just for reference (though it should be obvious), this does not use the skill system fix I placed up earlier.

Dragon Disciple
Insert flavour text here

Prequisites:

Race: Any non-dragon

Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 11 ranks

Spellcasting: Able to cast arcane spells spontaneously.

Special: Choose a dragon variety. Don't let your DM limit you. DM, don't limit the DD. That's just being a dick.

any reason you made it only accesible past 8th level?

Hit Die: d12

Class Skills: Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Listen, Profession, Search, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Spot

Skill Points/Level: 4 + INT Mod

I could see it being a bit higher, based on the near-omniscience of dragons, but I don't know how that'd affect balance...

BAB: Full Saves: Fort: Good; Reflex: Good; Will: Good

Level, Benefit

1 Natural armour increase +1, Ability boost (Str +2), Claws and bite
2 Natural armour increase +2, Ability boost (Int +2), Breath weapon (d4), Low-Light Vision, +1 Spellcasting
3 Blindsense 30ft, Ability boost (Str +2), +1 Spellcasting,
4 Natural armour increase +3, Ability boost (Cha +2), Breath weapon (d6), Darkvision +60ft., +1 Spellcasting
5 Blindsense 60ft, Dragon Apotheosis, Wings, +1 Spellcasting

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Dragon Disciples gain no proficiencies.

Ability Boost (Ex): As a Dragon Disciple gains levels, his ability scores increase. At first level, he gains a +2 bonus to his Strength score. At second level, he gains a +2 bonus to his Intelligence score. At 3rd level, he gains another +2 bonus to his Strength score. At 4th level, he gains a +2 bonus to his Charisma score. These increases are gained as if through level advancement (meaning, bam, you get a bonus, it's always there, happy birthday).

Claws and Bite (Ex): A Dragon Disciple gains claw and bite attacks. Use the damage values presented for a half-dragon or the base creature's, whichever is greater.

Natural Armour Increase (Ex): A Dragon Disciple gets scales, and his armour increases. At 1st, 2nd, and 4th level, a Dragon Disciple's natural armour increases by 1.

Breath Weapon (Su): At 2nd level, a Dragon Disciple get a breath weapon based off his dragon variety. Look it up in the Monster Manual, I'm lazy. A Dragon Disciple must wait five rounds between each use. When first gained, the breath weapon deals 1d4 points of damage per character level of the appropriate energy type. At 4th level, it instead deals 1d6 points of damage per character level of the appropriate energy type. A Reflex save (DC = 10 + 1/2 HD + Con mod) halves this damage.

very nice, I've always hated that a half-dragon can only use it's breath weapon 1/day

Blindsense (Ex): DMG pg. 185. 30ft range at 3rd level, 60 ft range at 5th. I'm lazy.

Spellcasting: At 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th level, a Dragon Disciple gains spellcasting as if he had gained a level in a previous arcane casting class. He doesn't get any other benefits that class would get, just better spellcasting. Congratulations, you're not totally useless now.

nice, I don't tink it'd be too unbalancing to make it a full casting class, but the MM dragons do have surprisingly sucktastic spellcasting for such mythic creatures of magic... maybe after Frank and K get the Tome of Tiamat done, we can take another look at the spellcasting

Low-Light Vision (Ex): You gain low-light vision. If you already have low-light vision, you gain superior low-light vision.

Darkvision: You gain 60-foot Darkvision, or your existing Darkvision increases by 60 feet.

Wings (Ex): At 5th level, you get wings. You can fly at your land speed with average manoeuverability.

Dragon Apotheosis: For all intents and purposes, you're a half-dragon at fifth level (except better). Your breath weapon damage increases to 1d8 per character level, your Strength increases (again) by 4, your Constitution increases by 2, your natural armour bonus increases by another 1 (to a total of +4 from this class), and you gain immunity to sleep effects, paralysis effects, and the energy type of your dragon variety. Now stop sucking and kill something.

--------------------------------------------------------------

So there it is. I know it's not worded very well; I'm very tired and would like to go to bed, so it's kinda rough. You'll notice I got rid of that dumb bonus spell thing the DMG one has (seriously, what's up with that?) replacing it with proper spellcasting advancement (albeit not much), and I essentially just condensed the rest of the class. The skill requirement may seem odd (eighth level to qualify), but it seemed about proper for a level thirteen character.

Also, the original class had Escape Artist. I don't know. I just don't.

What do you guys think?

and now I see you explained the level thing(sorta)..
ok, it looks good, very nice, though I would suggest making it a full-casting class.

[Brobdingnagian]

any reason you made it only accesible past 8th level?

Mostly, because it seemed level-appropriate for 9th-13th level. I've actually never got that far in a proper campaign (just ones where my group played the lvl 1-5 game with higher numbers), so I'm not really sure, but all things considered, it seemed right.

And I just don't know about making it a full-casting class. It gives you a bunch of straight number bonuses that stack with everything else, so I think losing one level of spellcasting seems fair.

[Prak]

1175602278[/unixtime]]8*10^300 is an 8 with 300 zeroes, not 80 raised to the 300th power. This is highschool math guys

not even that... order of operations is 6th grade... at most...

[Brobdingnagian]

Really? 'Cause I'd never seen that symbology before, what with me not doing much math without a paper and pencil.

Though, now that I think about it, if I were to make the equasion of eight with three hundred zeroes on a keyboard, I guess it would look like that.

Stupid keyboards.

[Prak]

well, I think it was somewhere between 4th and sixth grade that I learned that exponents are taken care of first, then paranthesis, then multiplcation/division, and finally addition/subtraction. IIRC...

[Cielingcat]

Order of operations isn't really important, since what we're discussing is scientific notation. While it does follow the order of operations, it's a unit to itself in elementary or middle school math.

[Draco_Argentum]

The ^ symbol isn't used in school though. Its a computer thing as far as I know.

[Cielingcat]

I just remembered where I got 10^100 from. It wasn't the mass of the universe, it was the number of particles. Oops.

[Judging__Eagle]

1175644648[/unixtime]]

1175589707[/unixtime]]You do realize that with that much strength, magic curls up in the corner and weeps, right? Because with that much strength, you do enough damage to literally destroy the earth with a single punch (assuming you wear gauntlets or are a Monk or something, so you can do lethal damage ). In fact, you could probably destroy the entire inhabited area of most planes with a punch like that.

Not really. "Eat forcecage, strength boy!"

"What?"

"You're trying to do some wierd shit on me?"

"Don't you know?"






"I'm the juggernaut, bitch!"

Juggernaut [Combat]
You are an unstoppable Juggernaut.
Benefits: You may be considered one size category larger for the purposes of any size dependant roll you make (such as a Bull Rush, Overrun, or Lift action).
+1: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity for entering an opponent's square.
+6: You gain a +4 bonus to attack and damage rolls to destroy objects. You may shatter a Force Effect by inflicting 30 damage on it.
+11: When you successfully bullrush or overrun an opponent, you automatically Trample them, inflicting damage equal to a natural slam attack for a creature of your size.
+16: You gain the Rock Throwing ability of any standard Giant with a strength equal to or less than yourself.

[Prak]

1175759937[/unixtime]]Order of operations isn't really important, since what we're discussing is scientific notation. While it does follow the order of operations, it's a unit to itself in elementary or middle school math.

meh, it still figures in, and the fact that I knew the fvck up happened based solely on OoO, says something, as I never really paid much attention to scientific notation.