The Decline and Fall of White Wolf

[Zinegata]

However if you wish to counter with "But that kind of fuckwit would have done so anyway at some point - they'll grab any excuse and run with it, so the book could very well have no actual impact" then I'll give you that point

He already did.

You think some Eastern European jackoff read an American English RPG book and then it fueled his Rom-rage?

I mean really people, there's hyperboles, and there's crazy nerd-rage induced hyperboles that stopped making sense several hours ago.

Heck, is this book even available in Eastern Europe?

[Starmaker]

Mein Kampf makes racist fucks do horrible things.
WoD: Gypsies turns sane people into racist fucks.

[Username17]

It is not a Godwin to mention Hitler in a discussion about a book that repeats Nazi racialist talking points as fact.

WoD: Gypsies is full of Nazi ideology. Not just some bullshit like "This book's author was a subscriber to the Big Man theory of history and clearly has fascist sympathies" - I mean it seriously and actually parrots actual things that actual Nazis said about actual groups of people.

And it's worse than finding some antisemitic tirade, because the people involved were still being forcibly sterilized all over Europe when the book came out. Pogroms against Gypsies aren't a depressing part of history, they are a depressing part of the here and now. I don't know if it was intended as a Neo-Nazi screed, but it certainly is one.

-Username17

[fectin]

Innumerable people with incredibly diverse views advocate things that Nazis also advocated (gun control, eat the rich, various flavors of nationalism, anti-semitism, etc.), some more palatable than others. As titillating as Nazi comparisons are, it doesn't matter.

What has to matter is that this book was demeaning and offensive, and probably libelous, and should have been spiked on it's own (lack of) merits.

Otherwise it turns into "you know who else breathed air? Hitler."

Also, Godwin's Law was pithy once, but turned fucking retarded fast.

[Ancient History]

The book does include a snippet about how the Nazis persecuted the gypsies 'cause they had "purer" and magical blood. High-level Nazis being rumored "dark mages" and all.

[FatR]

Stop making me want to read WoD: Gypsies, please. I'm pretty sure it is, above all, shitty and forgettable game book, but now I'm almost tempted to read it to see if it is indeed this bad, or Frank exaggerates beyond the impossible again.

[Maxus]

Let's have some chapter and verse if anyone has it

[Ancient History]

The Romani inhabiting the World of Darkness bear a resemblance to the Gypsies of our world, but they are a distinct breed. Much of the persecution inflicted upon them is the same that is inflicted upon the Gypsies of our world. Similarly, the Romany words and general philosophy on life, found within this book, echo the philosophies and language of our world's Gypsies. However, the Gypsies described within this book have stepped through the looking glass and have been transformed in the process. Some parts of their lives have been magnified a thousand fold, while others have been stripped away altogether, or nearly so. Persecution in the World of Darkness is perhaps a bit worse, if that is possible, and the magic that forms the framework of their lives is more than the magic of the road -- it is the magic of the Blood.

Prejudice and pain permeate both the World of Darkness and the "real" world. Th Gypsies have received more than their fair share of injustice in both. As you read this, the Romani of our world face poverty, ignorance and a new tide of hatred. The Gypsies of our world are no sainted martyrs; many would probably treat the gaje as poorly as they themselves are treated, if they were given the chance. Unfortunately, our world offers countless examples of victims who, in their turn, take up the knife of persecution and wield it as eagerly as did their persecutors before them.

The Rom of out world do not have the advantage of knowing that they are a race protected by fate, as do the Gypsies in the World of Darkness. Instead, they face the daunting task of keeping the remnants of their way of life intact in the face of increasing efforts by hostile or "concerned" governments, who refuse the Gypsies entrance to their countries, or place them in ghettoized communities resembling prisons, or attempt to assimilate the Gypsies into their culture, "for their own good."

There is very little certain about the future of the Gypsies in our world. However, despite all the hardships and persecution, the Gypsies have always retained a sparkling sense of humor, of balance, of life. It takes a courageous and free-thinking people to walk their own path, to take the road less traveled. And the Gypsies have done just that.

This is the least offensive bit from the introduction, before we get to the game mechanics where you're encouraged to persecute gypsy characters.

[Zinegata]

The Romani inhabiting the World of Darkness bear a resemblance to the Gypsies of our world, but they are a distinct breed

Again people. Enough with the bloody hyperboles.

If perpetuating negative stereotypes is a crime, then all of Hollywood would be in jail (which may not be a bad idea).

Hyperboles like this do not make you look more lucid in print. It just makes you look positively insane.

Edit:

WoD: Gypsies turns sane people into racist fucks.

If WoD:Gypsies has that kind of hypnotic power, then we should learn how they did it so we can write our own brainwashing books and make millions.

[Maxus]

So, it appears someone did a fanmade WoD-esque line. Based on Girl Genius-type mad science.

http://sites.google.com/site/moochava/genius

There's a link to the PDF there. If anyone wants to read and review, go ahead.

Edit:

Dude has some of the right ideas.

Let me preface my next comment by saying that most people who email me are interesting and engaging people whose enthusiasm is, seriously, the principle fuel by which my stray creative energies are turned into new Genius stuff. I especially appreciate people who have taken a hammer or a microscope to the rules, either to see what weird non-standards constructions they can make or just out of curiosity; games are meant to be played, and good play requires good playtesting.

Edit-edit: And some of the wrong ideas.

Others--observe the highly optional and the despised-by-this-designer-who-is-disgusted-he-even-needed-to-include-it Encumbrance rule--are basically sticks with which Storytellers may beat recalcitrant players; I apologize if their mere inclusion insults people who already know better. I also apologize if these harder rules remove certain interesting possibilities from play, but for every Mane Train (seriously, some guy somewhere is playing a train; that's awesome) there are a dozen nuisance-players slithering around the more exploitable sub-systems trying to ruin their Storyteller's games.

[Ganbare Gincun]

Pogroms against Gypsies aren't a depressing part of history, they are a depressing part of the here and now.

More depressing news: Romania wants to legally call Gypsies "untouchables".

[Username17]

Genius was made as a collaborative project on rpg.net. It isn't really finished. There are a couple of other collaborative projects of nWoD splats on rpg.net that are even more unfinished. There is one for playing Sailor Scouts and another for playing Swamp Monsters.

True story: I actually contributed to Leviathan: the Tempest for a while, until I decided that it wasn't going to get done and was going in the wrong direction. So I picked up my ball and went and made aWoD instead. But Leviathan: the Tempest still has The Marduk Society in it as a villain organization, for example.

-Username17

[Koumei]

There is one for playing Sailor Scouts

Yes. Is it any good?

[Username17]

There is one for playing Sailor Scouts

Yes. Is it any good?

It's called Princess: The Hopeful, and no. No it isn't.

Interestingly, shortly after nWoD came out, some friends and I tried our hand at making a Sailor Moon nWoD system. It basically stalled out on the fact that nWoD mechanics are horrible and the very things that make something a nWoD game are things that make things clunky and hard to manage. We called it Witch: the Transformed. And it was our intention that you could read the entire book and play an entire campaign without actually realizing that you were in reality playing a Sailor Moon game. Pieces of it got cannibalized for aWoD - most notably the Stellar Oracles (who of course are thinly veiled Sailor Scouts) and the Shattered Empire (who of course are the Dark Moon Kingdom with the serial numbers rubbed off). Here were the short descriptions of the Allegiances:

Sage Knights
According to legend Witches first learned to harness the powers of their hearts as weapons from watching the fairies using the original Athame to harvest the hearts of their victims. The Witches discovered the secrets of the construction of the Athame, and thus the first Sage Knights were born. The Sage Knights were the warriors and craftsmen of Morgan’s kingdom, creating the greatest weapons the world had ever seen from their hearts and instilling them with a thirst for the blood of their enemies. But when the curse was invoked upon the Witches, the thirst for blood of the Sage Knight’s blades became insatiable and blood became required to even craft the blades.

Rune Seekers
According to a few preciously guarded documents from the Ancient Kingdom the Rune Seekers were one of many groups charged with exploring the world and finding new Magicks. Their specialty was binding various powers of primal forces and spirits into Runes which allowed them to harness these powers in a very efficient manner. Sadly during the fall of the Ancient Kingdom the Rune Seekers lost a great portion of the knowledge of their runes. After the fall they were one of the only groups that had retained any measure of their power and the knowledge of how to regain it so many of those who were left of other similar groups came to learn from them, some of which hoped to one day rediscover their old ways of harnessing Magicks.

Stellar Oracles
In the ancient kingdom of the Witches, it is said that the Stellar Oracles were capable of guiding the Queen through any problem no matter how great or small. Nevertheless it is indisputable fact that the Wars of the Heart did happen and the kingdom was destroyed. The events of those days, the predictions and actions of the head oracles during the collapse are all lost to the ravages of time. The princesses who led the organization were slain beyond recovery during the shattering.
Because of this perceived failure of the Oracles, the group struggled with a lack of leadership and with a severe image problem among the other factions of Witches. Lately, the group has taken to proving itself through monster hunting, something which has been fairly successful in rehabilitating the group as a battle order in the eyes of their fellow Witches.
Signs are important to the Stellar Oracles, and an Oracle's Sign is almost as important to her being as her name. The group preaches the immutability of fate and claims evidence of reincarnation, though what this evidence might be is not shared with outsiders.

Spinners of Fate
[Sorry: I don't have this file anymore, so I'll throw in the description of their Weaving instead]
Fate is cruel to witches, and it has long been dreamt by those with the Craft that a way to escape these fates must exist. In fact, such a technique does exist, at least so claim the Spinners. The rituals of the Weaving magic exist to change Fate itself. The skein of destiny is a tangled one however, and threats averted may well be dangers deferred.

The Daughters of Gold
According to legend, the first Daughters of Gold were daughters of Queen Morgan herself. Using powerful augury, she determined that they would one day turn against her and secretly consigned them to die. But her greed was her undoing, as she was not content to simply allow her daughters to die, but demanded to have their hearts harvested for the Craft that lay inside. The plot was leaked to the princesses by one of the Queen's huntsmen and they escaped into the night.
The princesses were hidden from the Queen by svartalfs who where unhappy with her rule. They took in the princesses and taught them their alchemical traditions. The girls combined the alchemical processes with their own Witch Magicks and produced a new technique called Alchemy.
The leaders of the Daughters are princesses born, though they hold court in the wilds and forests amongst the birds and beasts if at all. It is said by the Daughters that the Witch Throne is evil, and that they shall never return to claim their place upon it.

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to spot the princess in each description, but I will leave some hints:

[img]http://shamanic_lena.tripod.com/rayearth.jpg[/img]

But while I could shake something playable out of Witch: the Transformed, I really have no intention of doing that. The nWoD is over, and frankly good riddance. The last book of Mage came out, and it said it was the last book:

And so, once more, we come to the end. A sort of well-deserved sleep after being Awake for a time, perchance to dream anew. As a certain fictional archmaster of Time said, “Nothing ever ends.” This Mage is ending, but your Mage can go on. That’s the wonder of roleplaying games – unfettered imagination to a degree unknown in traditional forms of storytelling. Okay, it sounds silly and pretentious, but roleplaying is a form of will-working. Every participant can change the story, mold what happens, and so shape time. Sure, it’s not too different from what an author does when he sits down to write, but in an rpg, anyone can do it in collaboration with others and on the fly. There’s no time for revisions and second drafts – in the heat of the game, what happens happens. An rpg session is a spontaneous group spell.

While I haven’t personally guided Mage’s line of game books for a while now, I’m damn pleased with the quality and imagination of every book in the line. Every book has made me want to play a new character – even a Seer of the Throne or a Banisher. Mage: the Awakening was launched as a step away from its Ascended predecessor, as a more purposefully occult setting, one that fit better into the murkier and more mysterious World of Darkness of its new siblings. It also aimed to provide a magic system that was less daunting to new players but still retained a wide-open malleability, one that both represented that hoary old trope of the “laws” of magic and the sheer, unbridled creativity of a will-worker. I like to think it succeeded in these goals, these purposes, these teloi. But don’t take my word for it – judging from sales figures, it was quite well received, despite some grumblings about Atlantis.

Ah, Atlantis. I’m pleased that the exegesis on that fabled isle’s legendry throughout history, as presented in Secrets of the Ruined Temple, better established its place in the setting not so much as the literal, historical realm of some New Age crystal gazers, but as a primordial archetype of the Magical City on the Hill, a Supernal idea casting many distorted reflections into the Fallen World. A memory of what was lost. A legend of the Fall.

Excuse me as I get this out of my system: Certain Forces have worked to bring us to this moment, but Mage is Primed to continue in the Minds of its players. While I can’t reveal what Time holds for Mage, I suspect Fate will conspire to revisit the Spaces it chartered. Think of this not as a Death but a new form of Life, in the hands of those who love it most. Its Spirit lives on with its players, and that’s what Matters.

All right, enough with the analogies. I’m supposed to be writing a farewell here, and this is becoming an elegy for something that’s not really going away. The books will still be here, even if in the years to come they’ll be primarily accessible to new players as PDF downloads — digital traces rather than ink on paper. In a sense, Mage is becoming more Supernal. Its truths will continue to emanate from its world of ideas into the games of its players.

I hope you continue to peel back the Veil of the Mysteries.

Stay Awake,
Bill Bridges
August 2009

-Username17

[FatR]

There is one for playing Sailor Scouts and another for playing Swamp Monsters.

Swamp Monsters mean rip-offs of Swamp Thing, I assume?

In either case, they couldn't have found more unsuited mechanics than nWoD system if they tried.

[Username17]

There is one for playing Sailor Scouts and another for playing Swamp Monsters.

Swamp Monsters mean rip-offs of Swamp Thing, I assume?

In either case, they couldn't have found more unsuited mechanics than nWoD system if they tried.

It was called Leviathan: the Tempest, and it was about being Creatures From the Black Lagoon and Deep Ones. Thematically, it fits very well with the rest of the World of Darkness. You gradually turn into a monster and get super powers.

Princess is a fucking mess, but Witch actually fit reasonably well. You had three kinds of magic that you dealt with. The first was your Elemental Halo Paradigm that accumulated magical powers in a similar manner to how people advance in paths in the Ordo Dracul and you only had access to the paths associated with your heart element (3 for each of 5). And those powers let you shoot fire if you happened to be Mars Fire or spread illusion fog if you happened to be Mercury Water.

After that, you had a Fate Paradigm, which had five levels that had to be taken in order like a "normal" discipline. You got one based on your initial transformation sequence, and it gave you a single set of powers you could either invest in or not. So if you were initially transformed by meeting your spirit animal, you had the Joined Fate and you could get Investment, which let have Luna or Artemis a Familiar; while if you were initially transformed after experiencing a great magic surge, you got the Power Fate, and you could advance the Paradigm of Bulwark that let you shoot black lines of destruction at things because you were Sailor Saturn.

Finally, whatever group you were a member of let you have access to a third Paradigm that worked like Cruac or Theban Sorcery. This might be like Sanctification for the Sage Knights, which let you pull a sword out of your heart and do various stuff with it because you were a character from Utena.

It all kind of worked. It actually worked better than Requiem did. Which was pretty depressing, and actually made me abandon working on nWoD conversions altogether. nWoD is just a very very bad system. And while you can easily enough fit a character like Sailor Saturn in thematically to the World of Darkness, and you can even make the mechanics adjust to her as well as they do to anything else in the nWoD - it still overall doesn't work very well. Because the system is still crap. I was much happier with my Sailor Moon conversion for Shadowrun 4, because that was less than a thousand words and worked a fuck of a lot better.

EDIT: found the old example:

Example: Amelia is a Stellar Oracle whose element is Water. As a starting character, she begins with one level of an elemental paradigm, which could be the lowest level of The Halo of Consuming Water, the first level of the Halo of Nurturing Water, or the lowest level of the Halo of Demanding Water. Her player chooses The Grasping Mists, and Amelia is able to use the powers of Demanding Water. If she were to learn The Force of Neptune later on, it would cost her 5 Experience Points because it is the first "dot" of a new paradigm. If she were to learn Blizzard of Abandonment it would cost her 10 Experience Points because it is the second "dot" of a paradigm. Since she is of the Water Element, she can never learn the Halos of other elements such as Earth or Fire.

-Username17

[Fuchs]

A conversion for SR4? That sounds interesting.

[Username17]

A conversion for SR4? That sounds interesting.

Short version: As a Sailor Scout, you are an aspected mage (Shamic/Element Adept style) who happens to be a member of a possession tradition. So in order to get your lightning blasts as Jupiter, you need to "transform" and then gain the Elemental Attack spirit power.

Unfortunately, it never became official because Jon insisted on writing non-functional mechanics for Aspected Magicians in Street Magic, so you had to use house rules for that before they made any sense.

There was a very similar writeup of Miroku Clan Ninjas that worked disturbingly well.

-Username17

[Fuchs]

Link?

[Korwin]

Unrelated House Rules
[snip]

• Sample Tradition: The Miroku Ninja Clan
  The Miroku Ninjas are very physically oriented magicians who interact with spirits which they regard as demons of strong desires called “Shikima.” Most Miroku are physical mages or aspected mages, with Path Aspects being very common. The Shikima come from their own metaplane, a terrible world filled with fighting, lust, and other powerful emotions.
  Most Miroku follow mentors that favor Health spells, and the most common Aspect allows Health and Manipulation spells. They are a materialization tradition.

  • Beast Manipulation
    Man Health
    Guardian Detection
    Plant Combat
    Guidance Illusion

Its at the end of "The End of the Matrix"

[FatR]

Eh, I meant, for starters, that nWoD damage model is one of the most unsuited for superheroics you can imagine. I don't know, if we're talking about Sailor Scouts, I expect, say, ability to actually dodge hits from one, and nWoD does not really deliver unless you rewrite it until it essentially stops being nWoD. Well, and power level that can be handled by nWoD mechanics is way too low for a series about saving Earth from cosmic horrors, where the entire humanity gets blown up and then resurrected at least once per continuity.

[TheFlatline]

But now I want to see Scottish vampires. It is something that is sorely lacking in this world.

I played a 700 year old Scot elder vampire once. When he got pissed or excited he slipped back into Middle Irish/Goidelic language appropriate for someone from the 1300s.

He had been awake for a considerable length of time by the time the game started up, and constantly talked shit and tortured the other Scot in the game who was a recent embrace and wore tartan. My character use to grumble about "flash in the pan fashion statements" and shit. When the actual conversation about William Wallace came up (Which was inevitable considering his background), he'd spit, gripe that the man was made a legend off of a bit of luck from a battle or two, and refuse to speak of it any more.

He was a fun character. I even got to have my Braveheart moment when I showed up somewhere and was asked what I was doing. "I'm here to pick a fight..."

Then there was much smacking around.

I avoided the braveheart/scotty from star trek stereotype as much as I could. Seemed to make for a better character.

[Fuchs]

Its at the end of "The End of the Matrix"

Thank you. My search was not turning up anything.

[Username17]

Eh, I meant, for starters, that nWoD damage model is one of the most unsuited for superheroics you can imagine. I don't know, if we're talking about Sailor Scouts, I expect, say, ability to actually dodge hits from one, and nWoD does not really deliver unless you rewrite it until it essentially stops being nWoD. Well, and power level that can be handled by nWoD mechanics is way too low for a series about saving Earth from cosmic horrors, where the entire humanity gets blown up and then resurrected at least once per continuity.

It's actually surprisingly not so bad for the kind of game where you are Sailor Scouts or other "anime inspired" super heroes. The mechanics of nWoD ensure that pretty much any time you do anything, it works. You're rolling fairly large piles of dice, and you only need one 8+ to get a "success". Now, if you are attacking someone for damage that "success" is that you just inflicted bullshit damage no one cares about, but it is nominally considered to have been a successful action.

But for a Sailor Moon style game where you shout out the names of your attacks and weird shit happens to enemies, it's not that bad. You announce that you are using grasping mists to make your enemies be unable to see, and then you roll dice and it works and then the next player announces that they are using a Black Band of Anullment to stunlock a demon and that works too!

-Username17

[Renfield286]

So remember how White Wolf decided that they were going to allow oWoD LARP games to rejoin the Camarilla?

And Remember how WW and CCP said actually, we'll give said fanclub back to themselves so we no longer have to divert any of our own resources into the running of these collectives. (the camarilla is now the midnight dance BTW)

And remember how the announced World of Darkness MMO is going to be based on the old world of darkness?

Based on, in the same way that requiem was based on masquerade. and the same way that kindred the embraced was based on VTM. seriously, based on means jack when ww says it.

Well, we have the next sign of a back-door ressurection of oWoD: The Vampire Translation Guide.

AKA more tools for the toolbox.

It's strange to see what was once a strong contender in the RPG market relegated to servicing the ghost of a game that is years and years out of print. I wonder where they're going next? Reprints? Resurrecting the old line with new mechanics?

Reprints is a very loose term, if you cared enough to pay attention to ww's site you would know their next step is print on demand.
the books are printed as you order them (and are bound to a better standard than many Revised edition books, or at least the ones through lulu were, I'm assuming the ones they are doing via drivethru will be too)

and they are looking at getting their entire back catalogue on there. no more oop books going for £100+ ($159+) on amazon and ebay, ww is allowing it's fans to choose and print what books they want.

Oh bullshit. White Wolf doesn't even make the top 5, and probably not even the top 10 in the RPG industry sales numbers. It used to be a big player, but the last six years have been unkind.

Wow, FL, can I see this magical computer that gives you insider knowledge on the ins and outs of the gaming market? or did someone publish it on wikileaks because you obviously have some way to access unpublished data.

your entire argument on this point is based on guesses. and as you seem to not have been paying any attention to any Published industry news I would make it a safe wager that you have no clue as to what is actually going on in the games market.

what we do know. WoTC gave up on the PDF market when they released 4th. alienating a lot of the fan base by even withholding the free 2nd & 1st ed downloads from the website. They still have a core of reliable fans who are still making d&d a viable venture.
also the fact that they still have a very strong place in the market thanks to magic the gathering means that they are not likely to lose their top spot.

FFG are quite strong too, but thats mainly because they are piggybacking on the popularity of GW's IP. not saying thats a bad thing, I liked their re release of WFRPS, and i like Dark heresy.

WW are hanging in there but there are new contenders to the throne too like pazio.

the fate system is a personal favorite, but they are only just creeping above the indy developers.

I know of *nobody* in two counties who is running a nwod LARP or table game.

Oh wait, I have a map

However, I know of 3 oWOD LARPs that each are running 20-30 players, and about a dozen table games, mostly Masquerade. Granted, I don't have omniscient knowledge, but when none of the gaming shops even *carry* more than two or three WW books that are in print any more (and during oWOD probably a quarter of each of the stores' RPG offerings were dedicated to WW), you have struggling product lines. Hell, my FLGS has more out of print oWOD books for sale than it does nWOD books. That's a bad sign.

Quite a few of my FLGS (and by local i mean in the cities around where I live) have closed down due to slumping sales.
the thing you may note is the internet has made many of these books cheaper and easier to get. Just saying.

Expect to see it carry even less as ww brings in the Print on demand program.

To reiterate: Requiem is a game that was released without inherent setting conflict, which is a good part of why it tanked. They said "make it up yourself" and they hinted at two factions that required splat books to even have any concept of what they were, both of which were hardcovers released at the time for around 30 bucks a pop. While it had some good ideas (clans & covenants were a cool concept I thought), it was intentionally designed and stated to be as hostile to setting conflict as possible. The gamble didn't work.

this is the old toolbox vs metaplot argument.
and I will answer simply with, yes with requiem you have to put the bits together yourself, and yes with masquerade you didn't have to do as much work before a game because it held your hand through the whole thing. but the problem with masquerade is if you said "I dont like that bit, I'm not using it" you would always have at least one player call BS on it because that is their favourite bit (by favourite, read less fun for other players, but gave them more to exploit). Requiem gives you more toys, but you don't have to use them all. it's the difference between my (or your) world of darkness and WW's world of darkness

Werewolf the Forsaken? Okay so you're hunted by the purebreds and you clean up rogue spirits. The scope was toned down but they nerfed the werewolves anyway and sort of became boring. While I've seen attempted Requiem games that lasted for some time, I've never seen an attempt at WTF (appropriate acronym).

WTF is the best of the core 3. and locally has the better following than VTR or MTA. basically its a game of holy war, there is the side that believes they can recreate the primal earth if they destroy the divide between the spirit world and the physical one.
and there is the side that believe that the spirit and physical should never crossover (that's the side WTF focuses on)
it's a game that gives itself over to conflict quite nicely, I personally can't see your problem with it.

Mage I heard was the best of the three but I was burned out on WW by the time it came out. I won't comment on it.

The major thing that (nWod) M:TAw has over (oWod) M:TAc is that they give a list of what you can do with what powers at what levels.

Changeling is confusing and hard to understand why I want to care or play the game.

It's the game of political refugee's and asylum seekers. you have escaped from somewhere that was really bad for you to be, but they want you back, and where you are either doesn't want you or cant accept you. add powers.

I actually really like changeling, some of the courtly intrigue can far surpass any Cam set VTM game.

Promethean is literally a game that is unplayable if you adhere to the flavour and intent of the themes.

I agree, or rather, it's a game for one gm and 2 or 3 players max. not one for big or even average groups. I would put Geist in the same catagory of needing a small group.

Sensing a pattern here? White Wolf is writing games that *don't* want to be played.

You are forgetting hunter, and that is a game far superior in it's nWod edition. the toolbox nature of the world and crossover friendly mechanics really come into their own.

Nobody doubts that the next WOD edition is going to be a hybrid, but the point is, for years White Wolf loudly, vocally decried how *bad* everything about oWOD was, and how nWOD was so much better in every single way.

Again, Source? any direct quotes from press releases WW gave. failing that anything that the staffers there have said during an interview.

I have a feeling that you are confusing WW with the fans who are arguing over who's favourite edition is best.

Now they're going back on that.

See above, Nothing to go back on.

Masquerade et al are coming in through the back door and while it won't be a straight reprint, I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more playing with what was supposed to be over, dead, and done with.

Except WW are still a Company, and there is still profit to be made.

1.) What the fuck took them so long? Everybody I know hates nWoD with a burning passion and remembers oWoD fondly.

Depends on the game, and the grognard in question. admittedly requiem is a bit vanilla, but most people who do dislike it dislike it because "They took out my favourite clan" or some other equally feeble reason.

but it's up to you what you play. most RPG's look a bit naff until you actually play them though. imo.

2.) Will they be wise enough to shitcan Achilli, who, IMO, was the driving force for every shitty change in both versions of the WoD ( including erasing Robert Weinbergs contribution to canon and not having him write the third trilogy of novels )?

Well as Achilli is the driving force behind the games themselves, and as most of the material for said games is pretty much all written by freelancers. and as he is one of a very small core of ww employees who are actually on the books full time. and as he is still helping them turn a profit.
you see where i'm going here? long and short answer is no, no they wont.

It's actually surprisingly not so bad for the kind of game where you are Sailor Scouts or other "anime inspired" super heroes. The mechanics of nWoD ensure that pretty much any time you do anything, it works. You're rolling fairly large piles of dice, and you only need one 8+ to get a "success". Now, if you are attacking someone for damage that "success" is that you just inflicted bullshit damage no one cares about, but it is nominally considered to have been a successful action.

But for a Sailor Moon style game where you shout out the names of your attacks and weird shit happens to enemies, it's not that bad. You announce that you are using grasping mists to make your enemies be unable to see, and then you roll dice and it works and then the next player announces that they are using a Black Band of Anullment to stunlock a demon and that works too!

-Username17

There are Three better systems for that (all in the ww catalogue too)
1) Exalted (especially the siderials)
2)Big Eyes Small Mouth (BESM for short, Tri stat system, very good, very flexible rules)
3) Aberrant (WW's own Supers game)

I could add Scion to that list, but it's pretty much exalted anyway.

Sorry for the long post.