Comprehensive Tome Errata

[Judging__Eagle]

Would using dual gloves of Tarn-[whatever] the Vigilant (10k some FR book; 1 glove, grants throwing and returning on any held object) and a casting of Heroics for Axe Thrower (instead of Zen Archery) be about the same, or less in terms of effectiveness? Attacks are chopped down.... however picking up a casting of Arms of the Girallon is possible.

Used to throw heavy objects would probably work for that tactic... which is getting towards Hulking Hurler build territory. For which this build isn't optimal for.

Being pretty much locked in as a physics defying fiend-archer is where an opted out Cleric Archer is forced to go.

Yeah, the anyspell, and greater anyspells are.... eye-bogglingly powerful.

It's like some one wrote up a broader version of Shades, or the Shadow Conjuration/Evocation spells. Since wide open spells never result in any problems, ever.

All of this just convinces me that all special powers that a character can have should just be codified; and "how" a creature attains said powers (route, power source, training method, equipment, etc) doesn't matter.

If not, stuff like 12 attacks at +22; 4 at +17 and 4 at +12 shows up.

Lots of attacks is probably fine (having them act as completely normal attacks is probably fine, since most attacks will have a carrier effect in addition to damage. Simply handing them out willy-nilly just gets tedious and feels abritrary.

Yeah, the whole "rouge & not a damage dealer" bit was mostly due to lack of precision damage. One level in rogue does not a damage dealer make. :/

The character had rogue abilities, and training at level 1; but the character didn't really fit that style of class; training in bard followed Rogue... and then monk followed that. Then levels of fighter to ease boredom and dissatisfaction for the character.

Having a player who gets bored easily ends up with stuff like that at a gaming table. Combat is alright, but it gets old after playing tabletop games off an on for twenty odd years. I'm a glutton for different experiences in a game; and having a character that can say "I can do that" in many instances during game play was the subconscious goal.

[Kaelik]

JE, can you just delete all your posts in this thread. I don't want you ruining my thread.

[Kaelik]

Very much rewriting of magic items section, about 90% done. Check out the changes.

[For Valor]

Concerning magic items... what would I do for a magic item that I wanted to give a constant effect?

Like, I want a constant [Item] of darkness. Do I get a staff and give it persisted darkness? (level 8 spell = probably never going to happen)

[Kaelik]

Concerning magic items... what would I do for a magic item that I wanted to give a constant effect?

Like, I want a constant [Item] of darkness. Do I get a staff and give it persisted darkness? (level 8 spell = probably never going to happen)

You don't. You either get an item that casts darkness, or you get an item that gives you a minor/medium/major ability having to do with darkness.

[For Valor]

I want to has the latter... would permenant darkness could as a medium item?

[schpeelah]

Arguably even minor, since it's 0-level on Tome casters' lists. Might be bumped Major of a significant portion of the party can see in magical darkness.

[For Valor]

... Soooo it could be ANY of the three? That doesn't help.

[Kaelik]

From Frank Trollman in the WBL thread:

Minor magic items:

...

Darkness Production.

It's not a rule, merely a guideline, so you have to figure out the area/level of darkness, if it requires activation yourself.

I'd personally just say "It's the Darkness spell, but duration permanent, and centered on the item in question."

[For Valor]

AWESOME THANKS

[ubernoob]

Now that I've actually sat down and read your BoG rewrite, I've got to say I like it. I think I'll be using that in my own games in the future. I particularly like the way you reworked staffs.

[fbmf]

Doors and Traps and Searching
<SNIP>

So any time your PCs are pretty skeptical about their surroundings, they get a search check to find out whatever it is is there. And they get one check per thing to be found, and don't bother rolling for empty places.

Which is to say the entire party gets one check, or each person in the party gets one check?

Game On,
fbmf

[Kaelik]

Doors and Traps and Searching
<SNIP>

So any time your PCs are pretty skeptical about their surroundings, they get a search check to find out whatever it is is there. And they get one check per thing to be found, and don't bother rolling for empty places.

Which is to say the entire party gets one check, or each person in the party gets one check?

Game On,
fbmf

Each person.

[maddd0g]

Just to clarify, an enlarged fireball still goes in a 3rd level spell slot?

[Kaelik]

Yes. But you have to be able to cast 4th level spells to cast an enlarged fireball.

[VladtheLad]

Just another question. What's the deal with the linked property? Could you explain it more thoroughly/ give an example of it?

Oh and good job on the staffs rewrite, seems it would work well.

[Kaelik]

Just another question. What's the deal with the linked property? Could you explain it more thoroughly/ give an example of it?

Oh and good job on the staffs rewrite, seems it would work well.

Okay, so you are a level 1 Thief Acrobat using two shortswords.

You find a Minor Magic Pair of Shortswords. This means that you get +1/3rd level on attacks with either short sword, but you miss out on, for example, a flaming sword, which is what you would have if you were a single weapon wielder.

Later on, a different character requests a Major Magic Item to be crafted. It's for an An Aboleth Fiendish Brute Monk. It's a set of plates, infused with the same magic.

It enchants all his tentacles, his claws, his bite, and his slam with a +1/3rd level bonus to attack and damage. It also has the Lifestealing and Dispelling qualities. So anyone struck by any attack must make a will save against a negative level, and be subject to dispel magic.

There are two valid lines of logic, under one you get multiple negative levels or dispels on a single target, under another, it's one per target. In my own games, it would be one per target, but I leave it open for others to take or leave.

[VladtheLad]

Makes sense.

I also wanted to ask, what's your take about combining in the same item two basic bonuses? Say a magic sword that also increases strength.

[Kaelik]

I also wanted to ask, what's your take about combining in the same item two basic bonuses? Say a magic sword that also increases strength.

That depends.

Do you mean "One Artifact Sword that has all the powers of eight magic items, but also takes 8 slots"? If so, sure, that's objectively mechanically weaker than eight items, so it's only a thematic thing, and as themes go, it's not shitty.

Do you mean "I want to do like above, but stack eight weapon powers on it so they have to save eight times against eight effects every time I hit them"? In that case, no.

Do you mean "Instead of having a Flaming Sword, can I just have a Sword of Strength, and thus break the Eight Item rule by having 9 bonuses, and seven abilities"? Short answer, No, you can't. Long Answer, except sometimes. Like Frank said once, if your armor gives you a bonus to MS while giving you an armor bonus, that's fine, but generally speaking, only skill bonuses or energy resistance should be allowed to break the eight bonus rule.

Do you mean "Can I have a Belt of Magnificence as one of my eight magic items"? In which case, shove it up your ass sideways and die you cheater.

[VladtheLad]

I just thought it would be cool (and some times fitting) and I certainly had no belt of magnificence in mind.

What if an item with 2 basic bonuses counted as a moderate item and perhaps with 3 bonuses as a major item?

The strength enchancing magic sword for example would be a moderate item (bonus to attack and strength).
While a belt that increased all your physical attributes (bonus to strength, dexterity, constitution) would be a major item.

Would it still break the system?

[Kaelik]

Die in a fire you filthy cheater.

[VladtheLad]

So, no it's not broken?

[Kaelik]

So, no it's not broken?

Define "Broken."

It's certainly stupid. It has a great number of shitty consequences. It makes Wands/Scrolls/Staves much worse at higher levels, because they have to compete with +1/3rd level to three things and a major ability.

It grossly complicates the accounting on every character without actually providing much of any value.

It decreases drastically the ability to switch items out for different purposes, first by drastically increasing the difference between different levels of item, so switching out a medium item that is general purpose for a minor item that is specific to the situation is harder to do and still benefit. It also complicates things where if you have a single item that provides bonuses to your 3 most important stats, and you find another item with a better major special ability, you either have to hope it has the same three bonuses, not use it, or juggle around all your moderate and minor items to get bonuses to those stats again.

In short:

Positive aspects of this change: Causes me to murder stupid people.

Negative aspects of this change: Only stupid people use it, because it is terrible.

Does it "break" the game? What does that even mean? It's no Incantatrix, and it applies equally to all characters. But it is like Game Disjunction, adding a shit ton of crap for little gain.

[Koumei]

Positive aspects of this change: Causes me to murder stupid people.

I APPROVE, FULL STEAM AHEAD!

[VladtheLad]

It makes Wands/Scrolls/Staves much worse at higher levels, because they have to compete with +1/3rd level to three things and a major ability.

You misunderstood, +1/3rd level to three things and no major ability (and +1/3rd level to 2 things and no moderate ability).