Midnight_v wrote:
I just have such a problem with the premise behind all this being a self fufling sort of thing. Most of all though, i'm having real trouble pinning down what the fuck the high level adventure standard really is? I mean what? Kill the Githyanki lich queen? Go to hell, build a castle? I mean wtf are we talking about exactly?
This. If there is going to be any discussion about what "high level fighters" should do (or hell, what high level wizards should do), we need to define what "high level" is, and what "high level adventures" are. Because people have radically different definitions.
Here are some high level adventures, according to the people that publish D&D.
1st edition:
--Have your plucky band of heroes fight their way through the hordes and fortresses of 3 armies of giants (hill, frost, fire), slaying their rulers and casting down their high places. Afterward, venture into the heart of the earth, invading the chief city of the feared Dark Elves, hopefully slaying their high priestesses and chief people. Then, invade the Abyssal realm of their goddess, and chop her fucking head off.
(GDQ series, 8th-14th lvl)
--Visit an insane deathtrap in the vain hope of destroying the undead monstrosity that resides there
(Tomb of Horrors, 10th-14th lvl...although let's be honest, this isn't a real adventure)
--Invade an Archmage's sanctum and stop him from ascending to evil godhood and draining the life from the surrounding countryside to do it, by killing or negotiation.
(Dungeon magazine #10, 14th-18th lvl)
2nd edition:
--Destroy a githyanki stronghold on the prime, then venture into the astral realm to prevent them from establishing a permanent gate, including stealing/destroying the tome that holds the secret to the construction of such gates.
(Dungeon magazine #43, 9th-12th)
--Travel to the Northern lands, where the Northmen are enslaving the dwarves, discover the Duergar Orb artifact that is warping their minds, and destroy it before it is placed in a gigantic iron golem-statue and becomes an enormous magitek mecha.
(Dungeon magazine #46, 11th-15th)
--Help save an elvish village by seeking out a famous bard in his home, then solve the mystery of his death and uncover/elude/defeat his murderers.
(Dungeon magazine #49, 10th-15th lvl...incidentally, my 7th-9th PCs destroyed this adventure, and managed to loot the supposedly impenetrable treasure room without undue difficulty)
--Stop an expanding Sphere of Annihalation from destroying a city, by invading the extradimensional fortress of a lich and swiping/seizing his talisman of control.
(Dungeon magazine #64, 12th-15th lvl)
--Invade the "White Kingdom of the Ghouls" (note: not standard ghouls) in the Underdark, hopefully negotiating truces and assembling an army of deep-dwelling races to aid you, slay the ghoul-king and his chief nobles, destroy the unholy sphere that is the source of their powers, and loot their overflowing coffers of riches.
(Dungeon magazine #70, 10th-15th lvl)
--Lead a preemptive strike on a lair of fire giants and red dragons and their armies to stop their invasion of an elven kingdom, ideally by causing their volcano stronghold to erupt.
(Dungeon magazine #74, 10th-15th lvl)
NOTE: Keep in mind many high-level AD&D adventures prevented magic from being an auto-win by using DM fiat. For instance, some adventures (including the D and Q series) simply say that teleportation, passwall, and other spells used to bypass obstacles simply do not work. Some say that powerful divinations that can bypass investigation and such simply do not work. This was a common (albeit heavy handed and shitty) AD&D tactic for dealing with the fighter/caster imbalance.
3rd edition:
--When a foul black rain completely suppresses all divine magic in a city (note: ah, a return to the fuck-you plot devices of yesteryear), defend the temple of St. Cuthbert from an assault by a renegade priest and his troll and demon allies.
(Black Rain on WotC site, 16th lvl)
--Investigate a hunting lodge which is haunted by ghosts of the many bizarre beasts who were slain and made trophies there.
(Haunting Lodge on WotC site, 17th lvl)
--Discover a ruined town, find out who destroyed it and why, assault the castle he lairs in, and stop him before he awakens an ancient evil.
(Thunder Below on WotC site, 17th lvl)
--Seek out certain fuels on the elemental planes for an ancient modron machine, to stop natural disasters.
(Force of Nature on WotC site, 18th lvl)
Now other people can post what THEY think high-level adventures should be like.
I am judging the philosophies and decisions you have presented in this thread. The ones I have seen look bad, and also appear to be the fruit of a poisonous tree that has produced only madness and will continue to produce only madness.
--AngelFromAnotherPin
believe in one hand and shit in the other and see which ones fills up quicker. it will be the one you are full of, shit.
--Shadzar