alt.War: Turning Anger into productiveness

The homebrew forum

Moderator: Moderators

Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

mean_liar wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:"Things" that don't exist at all, but are merely relationships between things (such as electronic data) don't exist on the astral at all and you can't do anything about them (spirits other than Flesh Forms can't even see them).
This is an opinion, Frank, and unsupported by anything I'm aware of.
The inability of mana forms to read electronic data has always been there. And I know it's in 4th edition too, because I personally wrote a little mini-discussion about how spirits couldn't read electronic data with an added special exemption for inhabitation spirits because they weren't reliant on mana perception if they had an actual physical body that was theirs. It's in Street Magic. But it's an adaptation of a piece from Magic in the Shadows, and Awakenings, and the Grimoire. It's in every edition.

-Username17
hermit
Journeyman
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:30 am
Location: Germany

Post by hermit »

Surgo wrote:I volunteer to lay it out in a book like we did with the Tomes PDF, if you wish.
That would be very cool. Best would be a design that looks as similar to an SR book as legally possible, login screen and all, but I'm not sure about the legality there.
Creative Fanboy Rage: Channeling your anger by writing the book the author should have written.
User avatar
mean_liar
Duke
Posts: 2187
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Boston

Post by mean_liar »

FrankTrollman wrote:The inability of mana forms to read electronic data has always been there.
Citation needed? All I'm aware of is a generalized discussion about how it appears ephemeral from the astral, but so do written words on a page.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

Page 100 specifies that hybrid form spirits can perceive matrix data, as opposed to other spirits that cannot.

-Username17
User avatar
mean_liar
Duke
Posts: 2187
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Boston

Post by mean_liar »

All that says is that they can use neural interfaces; it says nothing about data. If you mean casting into the Matrix then yes, that's correct, but "data" in the sense of "information stored on a computer" is not the Matrix.

I typically have a Task Spirit with AR Gloves as a hacker-in-a-box to do Data Search and Hacking tests.
sabs
Duke
Posts: 2347
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:01 pm
Location: Delaware

Post by sabs »

but a spirit cannot stick it's head into a server and go.. "look shinny" and tell you what the paydata is.

You cannot cast a spell on a nexus, and get any meaningful data. Though you could cast a spell on a nexus to overload it's circuitry and fry it.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

So... does this ESPRIT look like it would work with what the rest of you are doing?

ESPRIT Corporation
We must recognize the true state of the modern era: a permanent state of violent peace.

No discussion of Cambodia's politics and economy can be complete without discussing ESPRIT. Two of the larger political parties in parliament can be considered to be fronts for ESPRIT. The Technocratic Party is basically a sock with ESPRIT's hand up its ass, and the Queen's Party is on such incredibly friendly terms with ESPRIT that the actual Queen draws a pension from ESPRIT from the years she spent working for the company. The country meanwhile has been hitting double digit growth numbers since de Rochefort's coronation, and that basically would not happen if ESPRIT weren't pumping money into the system at a phenomenal rate.

ESPRIT is an aspiring megacorp that never quite made it, and is seriously looking for a fight to claw its way up in the rankings. Understanding their motivations is as simple as understanding that they have lately been losing some staring contests to France, which has made them look weak to other corporations who have been able to get more cooperation from their local governments. As such, ESPRIT has spent the last ten years pursuing a policy of kicking over cripples and making sure they “get their way” from as many other countries as possible. Of especial interest is the fact that they are moving their upper management positions to expanding arcologies in Kampong Som, Bangui, and Montreal. It seems highly likely that ESPRIT intends to become a bigger part of the corporate world, even if they have to move out of France to do it.
  • Joke's on them in Cambodia. There's a reason that Sofie de Rochefort kept her Queen's Party separate from ESPRIT's Technocratic Party. While her interests and theirs are aligned for the moment, that alliance won't last forever. I doubt ESPRIT realized how French their hand picked queen really was.
  • Hannibal
  • Or how Cambodian she'd become. The Queen has thrown herself into the role of assimilating into Khmer culture pretty seriously. People are calling her the “Egg Queen” because she is supposedly only White on the outside.
  • Chun The Unavoidable
Corporate culture within ESPRIT is aggressively French, especially in “frontier” areas like Cambodia or the CAE. Because of its highly formalized nature, a lot of people mistake it for Japanese business etiquette. Do not do this. If you want to get by in ESPRIT corporate enclaves, it behooves you to learn something about how they do things and not to fall back into the familiar routines of other corporate milieus.
A Short Guide To French Corporate Culture
If you are coming from a background with Japanese Corporations...
  • Make hand and eye contact. While French Corps put as much stock in formality and politeness as Shiawase, avoiding contact with people you are talking to is seen as a sign of dishonesty or weakness.
  • Drink during meetings. Light inebriation during critical discussions is seen as a sign of confidence and truthfulness.
  • Do not discuss matters of family or religion during work. These sorts of discussions are seen as irrelevant prying, and are quite insulting.
  • Do not invite coworkers for after-work drinking. Outside the office, workers are expected to mingle with corporate citizens from other departments to avoid professional/social entanglements.
If you are coming from a background with American Corporations...
  • Do not expect any decisions to be made during meetings. Meetings are for serious discussion, not for decision making.
  • Do not question a superior's decision outside of a meeting. A manager or executive's decision is final, a meeting is the time and the place to question ideas or offer alternatives.
  • Dress conservatively and formally every day, not just days when major events are expected. Your conduct is judged in many ways on how you present yourself. If you do not dress “classy” the assumption will be that you do not have class.
  • Do not raise your voice. Speaking loudly implies that you are aggressive or attempting to cover for weakness. A statement made with emphasis will be regarded with suspicion rather than importance.
  • Eat and drink during meetings. No one minds people chewing during important discussions. Meetings can be long, and it is expected that people will have lunch or dinner during the proceedings.
ESPRIT is a double A corp, and as you might expect, it produces a lot of things. They have high fashion clothing, they have a skilled positions staffing service, they have a line of self heating cuisine, and so on. But what really makes their mark is the weapons. ESPRIT Corporation is the fourth largest arms manufacturer on Earth (after Ares, Aztechnology, and Saeder-Krupp). They are especially known for PPEs – or Personal Protection Equipment (that's medical isolation materials and body armor). ESPRIT sells its weapons and armor with an aesthetic of light, elegant, and sturdy design, which understandably goes over better with armor (that you have to wear) than it does with weaponry (which you point at people). ESPRIT wholly or partially owned subsidiaries include Nestlé Foods, Danone Foods, Peugeot Automotive, ARCHOS Electronics, Nordstrom Retail, and Obstiné Construction. But they are most known for their Savalette Munitions and GECI Engineering imprints that make guns and planes.

With all these war toys being cranked out, you'd think the company would start all kinds of fights. And you'd be right. ESPRIT seems to view fighting brushfire wars to be little more than an advertising expense. Having recently kicked over sand castles in Kitara, Luba, and Haiti, ESPRIT's natural progression seems to be to pick a fight with a bigger and more dangerous foe. I'm not saying that they necessarily had Vasuki killed, but I am saying that if ESPRIT's forces acquit themselves well against the assaults on their corporate territories that the Naga are surely bringing, that they will sell a lot more military body armor and stealth aircraft next year than they sold last year.
sabs
Duke
Posts: 2347
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:01 pm
Location: Delaware

Post by sabs »

Frank, you're keeping the French "Lords of War" culture for ESPRIT? The we sell quality, affordable weapons to any(one)/(government)/(2bitdictator) with cash money?

On the Corporate thing? That's very spot on.

The one thing I might add.

* Address people formally. Unless you are speaking directly to a co-worker from your department who you know well, everyone is Monsieur Dupuis, Madame Channel. Noone addresses coworkers by their first name, unless they are close co-workers.
Surgo
Duke
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Surgo »

hermit wrote:
Surgo wrote:I volunteer to lay it out in a book like we did with the Tomes PDF, if you wish.
That would be very cool. Best would be a design that looks as similar to an SR book as legally possible, login screen and all, but I'm not sure about the legality there.
Just send me the completed stuff in the order you want it to appear.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

Nag Kampuchea: Serpents In The Temple
We honor the children, whose minds are not corrupted by the sins of so-called modernity.
Posted by: VanHelsing
Naga History Timeline
2065: Vasuki is seven times crowned king of the Naga. Nag Kampuchea declared as a kingdom made of pieces of Cambodia and Thailand.
2066: Nag Kampuchea formally seizes all corporate territories within their borders. The Corporate Court rules against them, but does not authorize funds for an invasion.
2067: Sofie de Rochefort crowned Queen of Cambodia. Nag Kampuchea refuses to accept her and recalls all ambassadorial staff.
2068: Nag Kampuchea enters a formal military alliance with the Plig.
2073: Vasuki is assassinated. The council of princes now runs the country and officially condemns Cambodia. War is declared.
Understanding Nag Kampuchea requires understanding their version of Hinduism. Because their entire society is shaped by it. And for those of you who are familiar with how Hinduism generally works in Bali or Vijayanagara, it is really important to understand that Naga hatch from eggs. Nagas do not necessarily touch their biological parents at any point during their lives, and their caste need not bear any relationship to the caste of their biological parents. Naga also have sex in big snakey orgy balls, so even if they cared who the biological father of a new serpent was (which they don't), they wouldn't know. A newly hatched Naga is assigned a caste based on scale pattern, magical ability, and in rare cases: number of heads (more is good). And to the very best of their ability, the Naga push the same system onto humans in their kingdom.

What this means in practice is that when a child passes nursing age that they are judged as to their caste by assensing and then raised by their caste. Each caste has its own children's crèches, and children assigned to them are raised by the crèche. And while this is supposed to make it so that every human being is as “placed” as every Naga is, it's important to note that this program has only been going for 8 years, meaning that the oldest of this new generation of fatherless humans is only ten years old. It remains to be seen whether Vasuki's predictions of perfect placement will bear fruit.
  • The program has only been going on a large scale since the Naga seceded from Cambodia and Siam, but they started the program while they were still a revolutionary group around Angkor. The oldest of the fatherless are closer to 25.
  • Chun The Unavoidable
  • It's actually not that new of an idea, various Khmer tribes have been doing this for over a thousand years (including the tribes called the “Naga” in Chin, Nepal, and Assam). Heck, the Khmer Rouge did the same thing for their child soldier program.
  • Heartfinder
The Naga recognize seven castes of humans and seven castes of Naga. None of them match exactly to the four main castes recognized by mainstream Subcontinental Hinduism, though some of them share names. They are Kshatriyas (Warriors – Red Scales), Airavatas (Keepers of Knowledge – White Scales), Vyasas (Workers with Water – Blue Scales), Takshaka's (Workers of Wood – Orange Scales), Shudras (Traders and Service Workers – Purple Scales), Kauravas (Providers of Food – Yellow Scales), and Kaliyas (Workers of Magic – Green Scales). It is important to note that while every human in the Kaliya caste can work magic, some Naga who are in the Kaliya caste can't. Indeed, a majority of Nagas of all castes can use magic, and the green scaled mundane Nagas ar put to work finding reagents for alchemy and such. To make things even more complicated, each of the seven main castes is subdivided into several smaller castes that have even more specialized division of labor.
  • The castes don't have the same ranking for humans as they do for Nagas. A yellow scaled Naga is a well respected hunter, while a human Kaurava is a peon who works in the rice paddies.
  • Simba
The different castes apply differently to humans and Nagas. It is completely taboo to use a control spell on a Naga, and hearing that someone did so is treated like if someone had skinned a Naga and worn their scales as a jacket. But using a control spell on a pangolin – or a human – is no big deal. Labor is divided differently, with humans being given substantially more of the menial labor and Naga being given more intellectual pursuits. Nonetheless, not all Naga are given the royal treatment. Menial labor is still required of Naga who are “low” castes, and mating among the Naga is apportioned by rank, where the lowest caste Naga do not mate at all and the higher caste Naga have many wives or husbands. Humans are not expected to be polygynous/polyandrous, and have monogamous arranged marriages that are always within the caste.

The Princes Council
The king is dead, but he is still the King.

King Vasuki is the head of state of Nag Kampuchea. He was declared to be the eternal King of the Naga when the country was created, and that hasn't changed just because he is dead. Vasuki doesn't appear to be secretly alive, nor has anyone made any credible testimonies of seeing him in ghost form, but he remains the head of state. It isn't just that they haven't gotten around to crowning a new king, they literally don't have a succession. Which leaves all the power in the hands of the Princes Council – which is a group of 27 Nagas of various colors who all hold the rank of prince. And all of their jobs are to interpret and relay the order of Vasuki. Which they are doing. Even though Vasuki is dead, and very clearly not issuing any orders to anyone.

Practically this means that Nag Kampuchea now has 27 separate monarchs who can nominally rule by decree and issue orders to anyone. As you might expect, there appear to be different factions within the council, and I'm not sure anyone knows who all the factions even are. But it is a safe bet that within a few years there will be less than 27 members of the council, one way or another.

The most apparent divisions to outsiders are the ideas of what to do about modern technology (with a minority wanting to modernize and the majority being neo-Luddites), and how to prosecute the war. The second one is important, not only because it means that as yet the Nag Kampuchean military strategies have appeared as disjointed and uncoordinated as they in fact are, but also because it means that there is really no “one” available to negotiate with. Nag Kampuchea appears to be putting together an insurgency against both Cambodia and Siam that they probably can't put a stop to even if they wanted such an outcome.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

Nagas Are Not Metahumans
You'd think that the inhumanity of a reptile would go without saying. But constant reminders are apparently necessary.

Metahumans are mammals that are all hominids. Nagas are cold blooded snakes. Nevertheless, it is necessary to constantly remind one's self that a Naga is not a metahuman and does not value metahuman things. It is natural to anthropomorphise things, and even considered progressive to think of giant trolls as being subject to the same basic human drives as an elf or dwarf. And while this sort of thinking can get you into a little bit of trouble when you realize that trolls legitimately aren't bothered by long periods of social isolation while orks go crazy in solitary confinement even faster than a human, with Naga it is a whole different ball game. It's not a metahuman, it's an 8-10 meter long very broad snake. They don't have the same kinds of motivations as you or me, because they are not the same species.

Now that the obligatories are out of the way, let's discuss the actual differences between monkey and serpent. For starters: body language. They don't have hands or feet, and while their faces are no less expressive than a dwarf's, those expressions mean different things. Naga don't smile. They have fixed fangs in the front of their mouths, and showing them is a threat display. Standing up is something they do in order to strike, that's a threat display too. It's a good thing that even giants are less than 4 meters tall, which makes metahumans look comical to Naga with our constantly threatening posture, but seriously they feel slightly uncomfortable around humans unless those humans sit down. Dancing, or even swaying back and forth, that's a threat display too. Don't dance in front of Naga. Also, Naga don't have eyelids and never blink. They don't consider staring to be a problem and consider either party looking away to be an end to any conversation. Fast movements are something that prey animals do, Naga are a top predator and their first instinct is to bite at things the move suddenly. Another part of the lack of hands is that Naga do not talk with their hands. At all. They don't waggle their tail or bob their head around either. All body language is expressed with the expressions on their eerily stationary face.

As for temperament, Naga really are non-metahuman there as well. They are not warm blooded, and so they literally have their body and thought processes slow down in cold areas. That probably won't come up in Nag Kampuchea, but it means that their mood is almost linearly related to the temperature, with their maximal happiness achieved when it is like 50 degrees out. The temple fortresses are basically uninhabitable to humans, as they keep the palace thermostats at levels that will make you vomit. It also means that Naga are intensely diurnal. There are some metahumans that like to sleep at night, but Naga take that to an extreme that you will never see in any hominid. They are also incredibly territorial. An unknown or unaccepted creature going into their territory is rude to a degree that is difficult to even imagine.

Lots of Naga have magical abilities. And they are called “shapers” because they almost always know telekinetic or shaping manipulations. Other Naga can only do very crude manipulation of objects, because they have no hands. And their practices reflect the fact that each Naga is very likely to only be able to use their mouth. This is perhaps most astonishing to metahumans when it comes to Naga funerary practices. It is considered normal in Naga society to bite the head off a deceased person and to dump the head in a pile of other heads. The whole “head piles” thing makes a lot of metahumans flip all the way out, but try to turn on your cultural relativism when contemplating it. It really is a natural response to the lack of hands thing. Art has also conformed to Naga physical capabilities. They do a lot of painting but textiles are virtually unheard of (and correspondingly valuable among the Naga).

Naga in Amazonia, Malaysia, or the various extraterritorial corporations often fully embrace the Matrix as a means of controlling things without hands. Of achieving the advantages of metahuman society. And Nag Kampuchea's official stance on that is a negative one. The Matrix was viewed by Vasuki as an assault on Naga society, and the kingdom was largely created in opposition to it. When the second Crash occurred, Vasuki spoke of it as a blessing. Nag Kampuchea has done almost nothing to rebuild its shattered information backbone.

Then there are the Naga emeralds. They are beautiful and valuable. And they act as effective ritual links, because they are actually made inside the bodies of Naga. Every so often, they will just cough one up. They grow in a gizzard like pouch where food (that is normally swallowed whole) is crushed and ground up as part of digestion. In essence, Naga chew their food after swallowing it. And they use hardness 7.5 crystals to do it. Naga can therefore chew bones and even glass without noticeable effect or problem.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Wouldn't a naga lack the jaw strength and dentition to bite off another naga's head? I mean, not to be a wet blanket or anything, but...

Also, the large size of the naga would really go a long way towards making it act less cold blooded (surface to volume and all that). And there are nocturnal snakes in hot climates; they also lack the cooling mechanisms necessary to survive particularly hot temperatures.

That said, nagas are also magical.


P.S. I really enjoyed the section on naga etiquette, as well as the suggestion of corporate naga spiders.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

Well, Naga are supposed to have incredibly muscular faces, so I imagine they could probably chomp the head off a fallen naga (or a human). Also ties in with the ancient Naga Tribe's funerary practices of chopping heads off and putting them in piles.

Ayway, here's the first draft of the Cambodia section:

Republic of Cambodia: New Dreams and Old
Pride fills the heart, but food fills the belly.
Posted by: Kangean
Cambodian History Timeline
1945: Imperial Japan's occupation of Cambodia ends.
1953: French colonial rule ends in Cambodia.
1970: Monarch of Cambodia deposed by right wing coup.
1975: Khmer Rouge takes over and begins its brutal genocide campaign, 2 million die.
1979: Vietnamese forces conquer Phnom Penh, Khmer Rouge ousted, but pockets of insurgents continue a reign of terror in the wilderness. First Vietnamese Occupation begins.
1989: Vietnamese forces leave Cambodia, Khmer Rouge vows to reconquer country.
1992: Cambodia becomes a UN protectorate.
1993: Cambodia becomes an independent republic again, Prince's party wins highest fraction of the vote.
2007: Those Khmer Rouge leaders as were still alive finally brought to trial for crimes in the “killing fields”.
2011: VITAS hits a poorly managed Cambodian healthcare system, 2 million die.
2012: The first Naga appears in Siem Reap, many worship it as a divine being.
2013: Cyclone Tanaguk devastates Cambodia's crops, mass starvations begin and hundreds of thousands of refugees flee to Thailand and Vietnam.
2014: Giant creatures now thought to be spirits appear in Ratanakiri. They become known as the Plig, and they devastate the villages in the area. As the Khmer people flee, the jungle grows up behind them.
2022: In the wake of waves of VITAS II, Sino-Khmer criminal syndicates take control of the government. Vietnam conquers Phnom Penh again, and the syndicates resort to insurgency.
2028: Vietnamese soldiers withdraw from Cambodia. The Plig expand their jungle into Stung Treng.
2029: In the wake of the Crash, Thailand falls under military rule and invades all of its neighbors, Cambodia loses quickly and becomes a vassal state.
2034: Insurgents from a disparate alliance of Sino-Khmer criminal syndicates force the withdrawal of Thai military. Cambodia is classified as a “Narco State” by the Corporate Court and loses all lines of credit.
2037: Vietnamese forces invade Cambodia and begin the Third Vietnamese Occupation.
2043: With the last of the Sino-Khmer criminal syndicates crushed, Vietnamese troops withdraw. Cambodia's monarchy is restored.
2056: ESPRIT Industries breaks ground on an arcology in Kampong Som.
2058: The Nagaraja Vasuki declares that the Cambodian monarchy is illegitimate and a civil war begins to take shape.
2062: The Four Winds Triad allies itself with the naga, and begins an insurgency in Northern Cambodia.
2063: ESPRIT Industries wage mage Sofie de Rochefort finds the lost Preah Khan – entitling her to be queen of Cambodia by ancient laws.
2065: Using the confusion of the Second Crash, the naga forces seize several provinces of Cambodia and Thailand. Vasuki claims Naga dominion over all Khmer people, and is seven times crowned Nagaraja over the new nation of Nag Kampuchea. Recognition is swiftly granted by Amazonia, Azania, Assam, Myanmar, and Manchuria.
2066: Tribal peoples allied with the Plig apply for and receive United Nations recognition for a country composed of portions of Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand. Cambodia's uncontrolled Northeastern provinces are awarded to the Montagnard Confederation.
2067: Sofie de Rochefort marries prince Narodorom and is crowned Queen of Cambodia. New elections are held, and the “Queen's Party” wins the most seats in parliament.
2068: Cambodia has an economic boom with heavy corporate investment. Immigration restrictions are eased, and millions of people move from more depressed regions – most notably Java and Myanmar.
2073: The Prince's Council of Nag Kampuchea formally accuses Cambodia of the assassination of Vasuki, war is declared.
It's hard to imagine sometimes, but from the glittering malls to the massive apartment complexes, essentially the entire city of Phnom Penh is brand new. Just ten years ago, this place was a crumbling ruin and the city we live and work in today did not exist in a recognizable form. Cambodia's economy was completely devastated by years of war and neglect, and by the time the queen took over, the country had hit total rock bottom. A successful secession of the Northern provinces, negative real economic growth, negative population growth, net outflow of both natural resources and currency, and respect for governmental institutions so low that criminal gangs didn't even bother bribing them. It was bad. And yet, in the years since Sofie de Rochefort has been Queen, all those indicators have turned around. There was even talk of putting pressure on the Naga to give back key cultural sites. Not because the Naga had attacked Cambodia (though they did do that this year), but simply because Cambodians are finally feeling strong and optimistic enough about the country's future to want someone else to give some concessions for a change.

Historically, Cambodia has been a monarchy ruled by a king. Since the rise of the Khmer Rouge in the late 1960s, that's been a bit dodgy, with periods of no king at all and periods of constitutional monarchy, and periods of kakocracy with criminal gangs in control of things, and periods of Vietnamese occupation. That has left the traditions in a bit of turmoil. But the way it used to work was that there was a sacred sword called the Preah Khan Reach (Preah Khan just means “sacred sword” – believe me when I say that Cambodians are not confused about which sacred sword you are talking about) and only the king could hold it and holding it made you king. It's like Excalibur for England. All coronations were required to use it, and even when the country was conquered by force, the conquerer was not accepted until they successfully drew the sword. It tells the future of the Cambodian lands, sharpening itself in times of war and gaining a tinge of rust when times will be bad. In 1970, it turned rusty and vanished during Lon Nol's ill fated coup, predicting that the Khmer Rouge would take over and began their massacres. And 93 years later it was found again by a corporate wage mage named Sofie de Rochefort. We now know that the Preah Khan Reach is a powerful magical artifact that among other things allows the holder to control the flow of water through the rivers of the country.

Nevertheless, many traditionalists opposed crowning Sofie de Rochefort, for a number of reasons. She wasn't Cambodian for one, and because she was only 28 at the time, but mostly it was because she was (and is) a woman. Cambodia has historically never had a Queen. The monarch has always been a King and he normally takes many consorts. This crisis dragged on and on but was brought to a close in 2067, when Sofie de Rochefort married prince Narodorom, the old king abdicated, and the privy council selected Narodorom as King and Rochefort as Queen. Some people think she's the Queen because she has the sacred sword, some people think she's the queen because she is married to the King, but everyone agrees she is the Queen. And while she runs around giving literal monarchial blessings to agriculture that actually work, she makes a big show of respecting the political process by allowing everything to go through parliament. Of course, she also sponsors a wildly popular “Queen's Party” that stands for election and is basically her cult of personality, but she is very clear that she intends to get her way in parliament only so long as her people keep doing well in elections (which they have now done twice).

But remember what I said about everyone agreeing that Rochefort is Queen? Well... not exactly. The problem is that the Naga exist too. And mythologically, the entire race of the Khmer people, and the line of Kings in particular, are supposed to be descended from the Naga. The Preah Khan Reach exists because the Naga made it in ancient times. And the Naga don't like the Queen. You can go ask them yourself, because they seceded from Cambodia and created the rival state of Nag Kampuchea in 2065. There are not a small number of people who feel that all of Cambodia should join Nag Kampuchea in order to be part of the rightful kingdom. Of course, this feeling is not universal and is held by practically no foreigners, which is probably one of the reasons that Cambodia has been so keen to allow immigrants to come into the country since the Queen ascended to the throne.

Ten years ago, the royal armed forces were bullshit, armed with archaic weapons built by the People's Republic of China (seriously) or whatever the Vietnamese had left here back in the 40s (if they were lucky). The only really effective military powers in the country were ESPRIT Industries and the Naga dissidents. So it's not really surprising that Nag Kampuchea was able to secede during the crash. Since the new regime came in, a major campaign of easternization has begun. Not only has the government been spending to acquire military equipment from ESPRIT and Vietnam, but a concerted effort has been put in place to model the military on more successful models like the Japanese or Vietnamese systems. Cambodia's armed forces even have their own samurai. It is a fair bet that the country will not fold as easily as it did in '65. Which is a good thing, because Phnom Penh is not actually that far from Agkor.
  • That's not a typo, and he doesn't mean “westernization”. The dominant military powers in the region are Japan, Vietnam, and Australia, in that order. When a military wants to modernize in Southeast Asia, they look East.
  • Hannibal
  • It's not just the military. Trid shows and clothing styles come from Tokyo, Hong Kong, Vladivostok, and Seoul. If you want to modernize anything in that region, you look East.
  • Mamasan
ESPRIT Corporation
We must recognize the true state of the modern era: a permanent state of violent peace.

No discussion of Cambodia's politics and economy can be complete without discussing ESPRIT. Two of the larger political parties in parliament can be considered to be fronts for ESPRIT. The Technocratic Party is basically a sock with ESPRIT's hand up its ass, and the Queen's Party is on such incredibly friendly terms with ESPRIT that the actual Queen draws a pension from ESPRIT from the years she spent working for the company. The country meanwhile has been hitting double digit growth numbers since de Rochefort's coronation, and that basically would not happen if ESPRIT weren't pumping money into the system at a phenomenal rate.

ESPRIT is an aspiring megacorp that never quite made it, and is seriously looking for a fight to claw its way up in the rankings. Understanding their motivations is as simple as understanding that they have lately been losing some staring contests to France, which has made them look weak to other corporations who have been able to get more cooperation from their local governments. As such, ESPRIT has spent the last ten years pursuing a policy of kicking over cripples and making sure they “get their way” from as many other countries as possible. Of especial interest is the fact that they are moving their upper management positions to expanding arcologies in Kampong Som, Bangui, and Montreal. It seems highly likely that ESPRIT intends to become a bigger part of the corporate world, even if they have to move out of France to do it.
  • Joke's on them in Cambodia. There's a reason that Sofie de Rochefort kept her Queen's Party separate from ESPRIT's Technocratic Party. While her interests and theirs are aligned for the moment, that alliance won't last forever. I doubt ESPRIT realized how French their hand picked queen really was.
  • Hannibal
  • Or how Cambodian she'd become. The Queen has thrown herself into the role of assimilating into Khmer culture pretty seriously. People are calling her the “Egg Queen” because she is supposedly only White on the outside.
  • Chun The Unavoidable
Corporate culture within ESPRIT is aggressively French, especially in “frontier” areas like Cambodia or the CAE. Because of its highly formalized nature, a lot of people mistake it for Japanese business etiquette. Do not do this. If you want to get by in ESPRIT corporate enclaves, it behooves you to learn something about how they do things and not to fall back into the familiar routines of other corporate milieus.
A Short Guide To French Corporate Culture
If you are coming from a background with Japanese Corporations...
  • Make hand and eye contact. While French Corps put as much stock in formality and politeness as Shiawase, avoiding contact with people you are talking to is seen as a sign of dishonesty or weakness.
  • Drink during meetings. Light inebriation during critical discussions is seen as a sign of confidence and truthfulness.
  • Do not discuss matters of family or religion during work. These sorts of discussions are seen as irrelevant prying, and are quite insulting.
  • Do not invite coworkers for after-work drinking. Outside the office, workers are expected to mingle with corporate citizens from other departments to avoid professional/social entanglements.
If you are coming from a background with American Corporations...
  • Do not expect any decisions to be made during meetings. Meetings are for serious discussion, not for decision making.
  • Do not question a superior's decision outside of a meeting. A manager or executive's decision is final, a meeting is the time and the place to question ideas or offer alternatives.
  • Dress conservatively and formally every day, not just days when major events are expected. Your conduct is judged in many ways on how you present yourself. If you do not dress “classy” the assumption will be that you do not have class.
  • Do not raise your voice. Speaking loudly implies that you are aggressive or attempting to cover for weakness. A statement made with emphasis will be regarded with suspicion rather than importance.
  • Eat and drink during meetings. No one minds people chewing during important discussions. Meetings can be long, and it is expected that people will have lunch or dinner during the proceedings.
ESPRIT is a double A corp, and as you might expect, it produces a lot of things. They have high fashion clothing, they have a skilled positions staffing service, they have a line of self heating cuisine, and so on. But what really makes their mark is the weapons. ESPRIT Corporation is the fourth largest arms manufacturer on Earth (after Ares, Aztechnology, and Saeder-Krupp). They are especially known for PPEs – or Personal Protection Equipment (that's medical isolation materials and body armor). ESPRIT sells its weapons and armor with an aesthetic of light, elegant, and sturdy design, which understandably goes over better with armor (that you have to wear) than it does with weaponry (which you point at people). ESPRIT wholly or partially owned subsidiaries include Nestlé Foods, Danone Foods, Peugeot Automotive, ARCHOS Electronics, Nordstrom Retail, and Obstiné Construction. But they are most known for their Savalette Munitions, Thales-Raytheon, and GECI Engineering imprints that make guns and planes.

With all these war toys being cranked out, you'd think the company would start all kinds of fights. And you'd be right. ESPRIT seems to view fighting brushfire wars to be little more than an advertising expense. Having recently kicked over sand castles in Kitara, Luba, and Haiti, ESPRIT's natural progression seems to be to pick a fight with a bigger and more dangerous foe. I'm not saying that they necessarily had Vasuki killed, but I am saying that if ESPRIT's forces acquit themselves well against the assaults on their corporate territories that the Naga are surely bringing, that they will sell a lot more military body armor and stealth aircraft next year than they sold last year.

ESPRIT has several installations throughout Cambodia, and is the largest single corporation here. ESPRIT's red boutiques carry lots of Japanese wares, as ESPRIT still has a special relationship with Monobe (each company owning a seat on the board of the other). Because of Cambodia's relaxed immigration policy, ESPRIT can still expand cheaply in the Republic. Similarly, because of the expanding job marketplace, immigrants keep coming to Cambodia voluntarily. It is not at all clear what will happen to ESPRIT or society at large when the rapid expansion inevitably slows down. Fourteen percent growth is only possible because the country had hit bottom in the recent past, if there is any plan for what to do when the route of expansion of “rebuilding” comes to an end, it isn't public knowledge.

Immigration and You
I no longer recognize my home. It has become someone else's home.

Six years ago, Cambodia's population hit rock bottom. Between wars and plagues and grinding poverty, there were waves and waves of people leaving the country. From a high of about 15 million people early in this century, the population had fallen to less than 8 million by 2067. And most of that is Khmer diaspora. People who simply could not handle living in a narco-state with no jobs and no healthcare to speak of. As the country's economy has been hitting double digit growth figures since then, the population has boomed up to a bit under 14 million. And most of that population growth has been immigrants. As you might imagine, this has caused some friction. And where there is friction, there are business opportunities.

The native Khmers, of which there are about seven and a half million, were the undisputed majority of the country until fairly recently. Like, seriously over ninety percent of the people looked Khmer, spoke Khmer, and ate Khmer food. Anyone over the age of ten remembers things being like that or they are from another country themselves (or in the case of the early immigrants, both). Immigration has come with prosperity, but it has also come with the rise of ethnic gangs. The Năm Cam gang tries to overthrow Vietnam from Cambodia, the Myanmaran warlords try to turn the refugee camps into more Myanmar, and the Four Winds Triad tries to annex more of Cambodia into Nag Kampuchea. Criminal ethnic gangs really have been pushing the country into cross-border conflict with all of its neighbors. This isn't just a theoretical problem either, as the overextension of Chen gangs seriously provoked the Vietnamese army to flatten the place in 2037. With the country going to war with Nag Kampuchea and Siam, fears that criminal activity may draw the Vietnamese to conquer the place again are rather high in the talk show rotations.

With all the immigration, it can be hard to keep track of who all these people are. It isn't just Khmer anymore, and that means that for the first time in generations, you can have “weird” behavioral patterns in Phnom Penh and have people accept that as normal. Here are the most major non-Khmer ethnicities in Cambodia:

Cham
The Cham people are a despised, but native minority. Of the roughly half million Cham, almost all are either “Muslims” or Nagavenshi Hindus. While we have to use finger quotes to talk about their Islamicness (Cham Muslims do not even wear colorful Malaysian style scarves and most only pray on Fridays), the fact that the Hindus are unabashed supporters of the Naga has made them incredibly unpopular with the local authorities. They live in the south, mostly along the Vietnamese border in Kampong Cham – which is pretty much on the other side of the country from the Nag Kampuchea border. Nevertheless, there is quite a concern that Cham people will take up arms on behalf of the Naga, they did do it before in 2065. Also of concern is the growing communication between the local Cham and the Cham of Pattani – because the Pattani Cham are crazy Muslims. Like, the blowing yourself up to kill infidels kind. Kampong Cham has its own little Islamic insurgency going, as it turns out that Apostasy is an even bigger crime to conservative Muslims than Paganism is. Mostly they've been targeting Islamic Cham who aren't Islamic enough, but that could change. The Cham have their own language, but you don't have to learn it unless you want to run with a Chamic gang, because they all speak Khmer or French or both.
  • The Cambodian parliament has seriously considered making a Cham registry, to keep track of all the potential Cham dissidents. It didn't pass this time, but it sounds disturbingly like policies used in Sri Lanka and The United States.
  • Immortal
  • Just because it didn't pass doesn't mean they aren't doing it. You don't think that Zeta-ImpChem got the contract to make a genealogy database for the country for health reasons, do you?
  • Mamasan
Vietnamese
Between the numerous invasions and the recent economic investment in Cambodia by the Khouang Combine, there have been a lot of Vietnamese people passing through Cambodia. But for all the Vietnamese who've been through the country, there are still less than a million Vietnamese actually living here. The local Vietnamese joke is “Cambodia: nice enough to invade, but you wouldn't want to live here.” That goes over about as well with the natives as you'd expect. But the Vietnamese expats are nothing like unified. There are basically two camps: the ones who like the nation of Vietnam, and the ones who hate it. The former camp is generally rich and powerful – folks who came in with the Vietnamese army and bought up land when it was cheap and made a killing or who came in with the Combine and make corp money. The latter group has an incredible wealth disparity, as the majority eek out a marginal existence while the leaders of the Năm Cam gang rake in mad money.

Chen
The Chen are what the Cambodians call Chinese people. Most of them are Cantonese or Teochiu, which means that one way or another they have family in Hainan or the Canton Confederation. There are about half a million of these people. Back in the 30s and 40s, a coalition of Chen dominated drug cartels pretty much ran the place, and they ran it into the ground until the armies of Vietnam came and shot them all in the face. Still, a not-inconsiderable number of Chen managed to get out of the game and “go legit” before the hammer and sickle came down. So there are a fair number of Chen growing up with money that they didn't personally have to shoot anyone for, and they go to the best corp schools and speak flawless French and run businesses and stuff. But there are also Chen who gravitate back to the Triads. Yeah, you'll never hear about the Triads that the Vietnamese busted up (on account of them being busted up), but many join the Four Winds or the Red Lotus. And the Four Winds Triad runs guns to the Naga.

Javans and Sunda
I'm a Javan myself, and I can tell you exactly what makes Sunda different from Javans. But nobody in Cambodia can, so Javans and Sunda get lumped together something fierce. The thing is though, that through the magic of ethnic discrimination, it is becoming true. The Urang Sunda are discriminated against in the same way and by the same people as actual Javans, and that has pushed the people together in a way that has not happened in the actual Republic of Java. Urang Sunda in Cambodia are more nationalistic about Java than actual people who live on Java. It's wacky. But despite how misty eyed they get about the Green and White, Javans in Cambodia are also very nationalistic about Cambodia. Originally Cambodia brought in about a million people from the Republic of Java, mostly as construction workers for the major development programs of the late sixties, most of the original wave of immigrants have been fast tracked into citizenship with the Queen's Employed Person Road to Citizenship plan, so they aren't going anywhere. In fact, as people follow family members, our numbers have swelled to roughly twice that.
  • The first construction projects were less ambitious than the “New Cambodia” stuff the Technocratic Party is jamming through parliament now, but it was also much less mechanized. There just isn't the need for construction labor today that there was five years ago. A lot of the new Javans get jobs in the expanding manufacturing and service sectors. The rest... well there's always the army and the expanding Javan criminal gangs.
  • Kerrigan
French
There are about a million Europeans living in Cambodia today, which makes it the country with the highest percentage of Europeans in it in Southeast Asia unless you count Singapore Incorporated as a country. The French have come back to Indochina in a big way, and while they have the rallying cry “This time will be different”, a lot of people are unconvinced. Still, White people have on average better education, better health, and more technical training than the locals and are hired preferentially for the better jobs. That causes some resentment too. An important thing to remember though is that if something bad happens to some poor person, that gets handled by the Khmer Police. If something happens to a rich or important person, that gets handled by the Royal Cambodian Military Police. But if something bad happens to a White person, that gets handled by the ESPRIT Investigative Forces. So a lot of low end criminals keep away from French people. You might even see them clear out of a club just because French people came in.
  • If you're White in Cambodia, you are considered French. It doesn't matter if you're from the Scandinavian Union, Poland, or California, you are “French” to everyone who lives here.
  • Monkeywrencher
Burmese
The Javans may be the “good” immigrants, but the Burmese are surely the “bad”. There are nearly a million refugees from Myanmar living in Cambodia, and very few of them have jobs. There are refugee camps all along the coast and the government is basically at a loss for what to do with them. The parallels between them and the Cambodians living in Siam, Malaysia, and Vietnam are too obvious to ignore, but that doesn't mean anyone is happy about it. The camps are filled with crime and divided on ethnic, tribal, and racial grounds. Christian gangs monopolize aid from Europe and Africa despite their small numbers and it drives tensions up even higher.

Phnom Penh
New is a good adjective, but under the circumstances it hardly needs to be said.

Phnom Penh is a special administrative district. It's the capital of the country, and by far the most populous. The country really underwent fifty years of infrastructural neglect, and really only Phnom Penh and Kampong Som can be considered to be “finished” in any real way. The city used to be roughly 10% of the country's population, but today it's almost a quarter. If you leave the big city, there are still a lot of depopulated shanties where plants grow through cracks in the asphalt. But Phnom Penh itself glitters. The city is fabricated in such a narrow time period that it's actually pretty easy to get lost – telling someone to turn left at the next Asian Deconstructive Neo-Functionalist building you will get quite a bit of confusion. The whole cite is built in Asian Deconstructive Neo-Functionalism. There are some surviving wats here and there that have been refurbished nicely, but as a general rule any building you go into is going to have a rectangular footprint with tiered eaves and curved patterns in its molded façade. Good chances of it having a domed tiered tower worked into a corner if it's big. Most of the city is painted red, white, or yellow for that matter. It's colorful and elegant, but it gets monotonous after a while.

While there are about three million people living in Phnom Penh, less than a million of those people are actually Khmer. Javans actually outnumber Khmer in the Cambodian capital city. And yeah, the Human Nation doesn't like that. That might seem pretty weird, since roughly 68% of Javans are humans, but the Human Nation tailors its message to the country it operates is – in France they mostly talk about how elves are going to undermine secular society with their non-French theocratic ways and turn the entire country into a religious basket case like Tír na nÓg. And in Cambodia they've developed this entire narrative where non-human creatures and foreigners are the same thing – which is a pretty effective narrative considering the Naga and the Plig actually are trying to destroy the country. But it's left them defending a narrative where they are opposed to foreigners even from France and Java. Historically, the government troops were pretty lenient on Human Nation crime because they mostly targeted Naga, Cham, and Hmong. But that honeymoon is coming to an end now that a majority of the people they bully are productive and loyal Cambodians. Human Nation thugs get pretty decent protection money from a lot of Khmer and Chen businesses – expect one of the up and coming Javan gangs to take over that market soon. The Human Nation simply don't have their competitive advantage in the extortion sector anymore.

The prostitution market is neither unionized nor monopolized, which means that it's currently operating at a pretty low level of efficiency. One hears tales of how the 28 Cranes used to have an entire district of Phnom Penh turned into a prostitution ward. But the Vietnamese shot all the Cranes right in the face, and the last of the brothel complexes got the bulldozer treatment in '68. Phnom Penh doesn't have a proper red light district, and boy does it need one. This sector is dominated by the Yakuza in Siam and by the Vory in Vietnam, but so far no one has put in the kind of police bribing, pimp crushing investment needed to get the sex work industry up to standards in modern Cambodia.
  • Street walkers are a sketchy proposition at the best of time, and that's basically what Phnom Penh offers. Costs are low, but there is no selection or John protections. Would not recommend.
  • HugMonster
  • The brothel complexes of the late 30s were impressive, but anyone could see that they had gone too far. Sooner or later some kind of government is going to step in, and you're not going to find any government that is OK with criminal gangs running an off-grid prostitute breeding program in a fortified dungeon complex. Of course the Vietnamese shut it down.
  • Mamasan
The construction industry in Phnom Penh is mostly post-boom. Not in the whole country, but specifically in the special administrative district. Construction is therefore reorienting to produce in other areas. That restructuring is going to make people commute a lot farther from town to work, but it's also going to allow time for criminal elements to orient themselves to the new projects. There is a very real chance that the next five years of construction will have higher marginal costs than the last five years – even though the government points to an increased level of mechanization and productivity.

Phnom Penh sits at the crossroads of two of the world's great rivers (the Mekong and the Tonlé Sap), but also on the crossroads of cultures. Amok is made from Cambodian fish paste and Javan spice paste, and you can get it extruded from any vending machine in the city. Just as the Mekong and the Tonlé Sap join together in Phnom Penh, the different peoples are forming a shared identity within the city. We'll see if the metaphor holds, because those rivers also divide again while leaving the city.
Last edited by Username17 on Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

So, starting on the game information section. It's going to be ghastly:

Game Information
Since this is for Alt.War, this will all be written out of character.”

Shadowrun 4, like any published system, has its share of objectively bad rules. Spirit Essence Drain leads to Bloodzilla, the Matrix Perception Action leads to the Infinity Mirror, and so on. But this section is not about them. This is about transforming the rules into something that can handle something they were never meant to deal with: open warfare and heavy weaponry.

The 4th Edition Shadowrun rules are deliberately and completely written from the perspective of normal humans shooting pistols at each other. And for that they work pretty well. You shoot a bullet into someone and they are hurt but able to fire back. You double tap them in the chest and they pretty much fall down. That is an acceptable result. But it doesn't scale well when you get out of the humans and pistols range. When you shoot an armored truck with a powerful weapon, it is pretty much impossible to damage it – you can only bounce off its armor or blow it to pieces in one shot. And that's unsatisfying. So what we will do is to present a set of rules that put damage onto the same log scale as other skill tasks are in SR4. So that we will be able to get roughly similar results firing big weapons at big monsters as we get by firing small weapons at small monsters.

Damage and Injury
The bigger they are, the bigger a gun it takes to make them fall.

Shadowrun 4th edition experimented with a non-proportional damage system. That is, a box of injury was supposed to represent a similar amount of damage on a troll as it was on an elf – like a hit point in Dungeons & Dragons. And yes, this worked sort of OK for elves and trolls, but it completely falls apart when we deal with dogs and war machines. Things outside the human scale simply do not fit in such a system, and they never will. A small dog should drop from a single pistol shot, a light tank should be able to take two LAV rockets with serious damage. But what can be done about that? The answer is fortunately found in the mechanics of previous editions of Shadowrun: Proportional Damage. That is, when the game generates “Moderate” or “Serious” Injury, that Injury is relative to the target. A moderate injury to a small dog might have been inflicted by a sharp kick, while a moderate injury to a troll might have been inflicted with a rifle, and a moderate injury to an anthromorph combat vehicle might have been inflicted by an assault cannon. But the game generates Moderate Injury after comparing damage to soak, and we fill in the same number of boxes in every case. And that is out of the same total number of boxes in every case as well.

The way this works is that we have in all cases 10 injury boxes. Your hacker has 10 injury boxes, your troll street samurai has 10 injury boxes, your Vietnamese Amphibious Troop Transport has 10 injury boxes. If it becomes important how tough a crow or a rat is – they also have 10 injury boxes. And when injuries occur, we fill them out in distinct amounts based on what kind of Injury they are. Injuries can be Light (one box), Moderate (3 boxes), Serious (6 boxes), Incapacitating (10 boxes), or Deadly (10 boxes + dying). Here's how that looks:

Uninjured:
LMSI
XXXXXXXXXX

Light Wound:
LMSI
XXXXXXXXXX

Moderate Wound:
LMSI
XXXXXXXXXX

Serious Wound:
LMSI
XXXXXXXXXX

Incapacitation:
LMSI
XXXXXXXXXX

But how do we determine whether an Injury should be Light or Serious? We compare it to a chart. Or, if you don't want to look up the chart, every point of unsoaked damage makes the injury one level bigger. Or if you're super into math, each greater injury is the next triangular number of filled in boxes. Or if you're autistically into math, you fill in the number of unsoaked damage times one more than the number of unsoaked damage divided by 2 in boxes out of your 10 total. Anyway, we make our soak roll as normal, and subtract the hits from the incoming damage. And the more incoming damage is left, the bigger an injury we actually suffer:
Unsoaked Damage:Injury Type:Boxes Filled:
0 (or less)None0
1Light1
2Moderate3
3Serious6
4Incapacitating10
5+Deadly10*

  • *: Also, you are dying
That's a start. But unfortunately, in order to get things onto that scale, we're going to have to rewrite the input numbers for armor, weapons, vehicles, and critters. After all, with the proportional system, increasing damage by 5 is the entire difference between one shotting an opponent and bouncing off their armor (or manly chest, as appropriate). This allows us to get rid of all the silly stuff like missiles that do 120 damage, but it also means that we have to rewrite those inputs to make things work. So let's get started on that.

Optional Rule: Instant Death
You may want to institute a system for killing creatures outright with massive damage. To do this, you set a “death threshold”. That is, a number of unsoaked damage from an attack where you do not bother to keep track of a character dying and simply declare them dead. Maybe their head gets pulped like Scanners, or they get multipart shredded. But in any case, it's pretty clear that even medicine in the 2070s cannot save them. Rather unsurprisingly, the lower you set this threshold, the more often it will happen and the deadlier combat will be. If you have characters instantly die with 6 damage, in-combat instant death will happen fairly often, while if you have characters die with 9 unsoaked damage it will be almost unheard of. How deadly you want your own game is an open question.
Armor and Hardened Armor
People will be shooting at you, you may want some of this.

At high values, the SR4 armor system completely falls apart. This was never detected in playtest because high values were never part of the “street level” game that was being written. The fact that the game was unable to model a missile hitting an APC really never came up. And yet, for purposes of Alt.War, where shooting anti-material rifles at hardened targets actually is important, the rules will have to be changed into something that can handle that.

Here's the core problem: when you increase hardened armor by 3, you need to inflict 3 more damage to hurt the target at all. But if the target can be hurt at all, those 3 armor dice only generate 1 hit on average for the Soak test. So when you scale vehicles up, the smallest weapon that can hurt them at all will inflict more unsoaked damage on them than the smallest weapon that could hurt a vehicle that was less armored. At the upper end of the scale, it is literally impossible to damage tanks and great dragons without one-shot killing them. And that's before we go to a proportional damage system where only 5 unsoaked damage is enough to drop a target.

The first step is to change what Hardened Armor does. Now, Hardened Armor provides a die that always rolls a 5. There is no longer a minimum damage to play (save that of course, if you have enough automatic hits, you don't need to roll soak to take no damage). The second part is that if you have hardened armor and regular armor at the same time, that hardened armor is lost first when enemies use weapons with armor penetration numbers. The third part is that if your armor is halved by any sort of special effect like a Fire Ball spell, then hardened armor and regular armor are halved separately.

That is just the beginning though, since by these rules, the amounts of armor things are listed with are insane. So there will be a new writeup of armors, vehicles, and critters in this section. However, if you're using Shadowrun materials that are printed after this is that are not on this scale, it's best to simply divide the suggested amounts of hardened armor by 2 or 3.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

Autofire and Recoil
Something you can't understand: How I could just kill a man.

Burst fire and fully automatic fire have rules that make some people (especially gun enthusiasts) very upset, but on the whole they are functional in the basic game. Some of the things they produce are extremely weird, like how the recoil on assault cannons is completely negligible because recoil only applies to next shot so Single Shot weapons never care. Or like how the recoil on a machine pistol is much worse than the recoil on a sawed off shotgun because it's based entirely on how many bullets are fired and not on how big those bullets are. But that's not the reason that alternative Autofire and Recoil rules are being introduced in this document. That is being done because in a proportional damage system where 5 points is the difference between no wound and and an Incapacitating injury, then having a long narrow burst hand out five extra damage points is totally unacceptable, right? And as long as we have to redo the autofire and recoil system anyway, we might as well replace it with something that people like better.

Recoil And Strength
I can't hold on! I'm shooting too fast!

The first thing that is going to be done is to remove the “bullet count” recoil mechanics. This has to be done, because we need to remove the bullet count from the damage, meaning that we aren't going to be using the bullet count at all. So instead what will happen is that weapons will have a Strength listed on them, which is the Strength required to use them normally. Using a weapon with a higher required Strength than your character's Strength causes them to suffer penalties. Using a weapon in a faster firing mode or firing them one-handed causes the Strength of the weapon to rise, which means that your character has to be stronger in order to use weapons in those ways without penalties.

Exceeding Character Strength With Weapon Strength
They weren't kidding about this being a heavy pistol.

If the effective Strength of a weapon that you are using (after appropriate modifiers such as gas vents and firing modes) exceeds your character's strength by 1, you suffer a -1 dicepool penalty on your attack and a -2 dicepool penalty on any other action you take (including Defense rolls, but not including Soak rolls) until the beginning of your next initiative pass. These penalties are cumulative, so if you fired twice with a weapon that exceeds your character's Strength by 1, the second attack would be at -3 and a Defense roll made after both would be at -4. If the weapon exceeds your character's Strength by more than one, simply multiply those penalties by the amount of Strength you are short. So if you're 3 Strength down, you're at -3 for the attack and anything else you attempt is at -6 for the rest of the initiative pass.

A good rule of thumb is that if a weapon's list Strength is 4 more than the character's actual strength (before modifiers for firing modes or weapon mods), then the weapon is too heavy for the character to use effectively. Small children just can't even use machine guns, the fact that recoil would knock them over is completely secondary.
Weapon NameDamageAPModeAmmoSkillStrengthAvailabilityCost
Holdout Pistols
Cavalier Scout3-SA7 (c)Pistol (Holdout)4¥
Fichetti-Tiffani Needler5 (f)x2SA4 (c)Pistol (Holdout)45R500¥
Raecor Sting5(f)x2SS5 (c)Pistol (Holdout)36R350¥
Streetline Special3-SS6 (c)Pistol (Holdout)44R100¥
Morrissey Elan3-SA5 (c)Pistol (Holdout)37R450¥
Walther Palm Pistol3-SS/BF2(b)(Holdout)44R175¥
Light Pistols
Ares Light Fire 703-SA16 (c)Pistol (Automatic)23R350¥
Beretta 101T3-SA12 (C)Pistol (Automatic)24R200¥
Beretta 200ST3-SA/BF20 (c)Pistol (Automatic)27R550¥
Ceska vz/ 1203-SA18 (c)Pistol (Automatic)24R350¥
Colt America L363-SA11 (c)Pistol (Automatic)24R150¥
Colt Asp3-SA6 (cy)Pistol (Revolver)23R175¥
Fichetti Executive Action3-SA/BF18 (c)Pistol (Automatic)212R700¥
Fichetti Security 6003-SA30 (c)Pistol (Automatic)26R450¥
Hammerli 620S3-SA6 (c)Pistol (Automatic)18R650¥
SA Puzzler3-SA12 (c)Pistol (Automatic)315F900¥
Seco LD-1203-SA12 (c)Pistol (Automatic)23R250¥
Taurus Multi-63/4/5-SA6 (cy)Pistol (Revolver)2/3/47R200¥
Walther PB-1203-SA10 (c)/15 (c)Pistol (Automatic)29R400¥
Sakura Fubuki3-SA/BF/FA10 (ml) x4Pistol (Automatic)210R2000¥
Machine Pistols
Ares Crusader3-SA/BF/FA40 (c)Pistol (Automatic)37R700¥
Ceska Black Scorpion3-SA/BF/FA35 (c)Pistol (Automatic)38R550¥
FN 5-7C3-SA/BF/FA20 (c)Pistol (Automatic)38R600¥
PPSK-4 Collapsible
Machine Pistol
3-SA/BF/FA30 (c)Pistol (Automatic)320F2800¥
Steyr TMP3-SA/BF/FA30 (c)Pistol (Automatic)38R600¥
Ares Predator
Full Auto Mod
4-FA15 (c)Pistol (Automatic)44F700¥
Fichtti Securty
Full Auto Mod
3-FA30 (c)Pistol (Automatic)36F900¥
Heavy Pistols
Ares Predator IV4-1SA15 (c)Pistol (Automatic)34R350¥
Ares Viper Slivergun6(f)x2SA/BF30 (c)Pistol (Automatic)25R500¥
Browning Ultra-Power4-1SA10 (c)Pistol (Automatic)34R300¥
Cavalry Deputy4-1SA7 (cy)Pistol (Revolver)34R225¥
Colt Government 20664-1SA14 (c)Pistol (Automatic)36R500¥
Colt Manhunter4-1SA16 (c)Pistol (Automatic)34R300¥
Eichiro Hatamoto II6-1SS1 (m)Pistol (Holdout)510R800¥
HK Urban Fighter4-1SA10 (c)Pistol (Automatic)314F1400¥
Morrissey Alta4-1SA12 (c)Pistol (Automatic)37R850¥
Morrissey Elite4-1SA5 (c)Pistol (Automatic)46R450¥
Nitama NeMax4-1SA10 (c)Pistol (Automatic)316R1700¥
PSK Collapsible Pistol4-1SA8 (c)Pistol (Automatic)318F2300¥
Remington Roomsweeper4-1SA8 (m)Pistol (Revolver)36R250¥
Ruger Super Warhawk5-2SS6 (cy)Pistol (Revolver)34R250¥
Ruger Thunderbolt4-1BF12 (c)Pistol (Automatic)312R750¥
Savalette Guardian4-1SA/BF15 (c)Pistol (Automatic)37R800¥
Walther Secura4-1SA12 (c)Pistol (Automatic)35R300¥
Walther Secura Kompakt4-1SA9 (c)Pistol (Automatic)47R400¥
WW Infiltrator4-1SA15 (c)Pistol (Automatic)416F1100¥

User avatar
Orion
Prince
Posts: 3756
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Orion »

What does being a "flechette" weapon mean in this ruleset? Frankly, Flechettes never worked right in the base rules anyway.
User avatar
Kot
Journeyman
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:44 am
Location: Bricktown, Poland

Post by Kot »

Orion wrote:What does being a "flechette" weapon mean in this ruleset? Frankly, Flechettes never worked right in the base rules anyway.
Oh, they did. On an unarmored target. They're basically for mowing zombies.
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"The only way to keep them in line is to bury them in a row..."
Orca
Knight-Baron
Posts: 877
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:31 am

Post by Orca »

FrankTrollman wrote:... exceeds your character's strength by 1, you suffer a -1 dicepool penalty on your attack and a -2 dicepool penalty on any other action you take (including Defense rolls, but not including Soak rolls) until the beginning of your next initiative pass. These penalties are cumulative, so if you fired twice with a weapon that exceeds your character's Strength by 1, the second attack would be at -3 and a Defense roll made after both would be at -4.
Should that second attack be -2, or am I not following?
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Fuck yeah; this has been a long time in coming.
FrankTrollman wrote:
Weapon NameDamageAPModeAmmoSkillStrengthAvailabilityCost
Colt Government 20664-1SA14 (c)Pistol (Automatic)36R500¥
Colt Manhunter4-1SA16 (c)Pistol (Automatic)34R300¥

Is that a joke? Government hammer?
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

Orion wrote:What does being a "flechette" weapon mean in this ruleset? Frankly, Flechettes never worked right in the base rules anyway.
Ammo is getting an overhaul. Flechette means that you're firing something like dumdums or salt rounds that fragment and cause horrendous tissue damage - but bounce off of good armor. They do +2 Damage but double the target's armor. So if your opponent has armored clothing at 3, they are no better than explosives (now +1 DV straight). If your opponent has 6 points of armor, they are no better than FMJ. And if your opponent has an armor jacket, they are worse than nothing.
Orca wrote:Should that second attack be -2, or am I not following?
-1 for taking recoil on the attack, -2 for being an action after you took recoil on the previous attack. -3 total.
Catharz wrote:Is that a joke? Government hammer?
No, the Colt Government 2066 is a weapon that has no moving parts in its firing mechanism, and can fire without being well cleaned without jamming. If you're not personally a gun bunny, or you're pulling a gun out of an arms locker to go patrolling, the 2066 is a better weapon than the manhunter.

-Username17
User avatar
Orion
Prince
Posts: 3756
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Orion »

Mechanically, however, the Government seems to be more expensive, harder to find, and less effective than the Manhunter.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

Orion wrote:Mechanically, however, the Government seems to be more expensive, harder to find, and less effective than the Manhunter.
Player characters aren't going to use either, because for a few Nuyen more you can get guns with internal smartlinks and shit. The importance of the two weapons is that the one that survives being in a mud puddle better also has the better base resale value and is thus the better choice for looting if it comes to that.

-Username17
Orca
Knight-Baron
Posts: 877
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:31 am

Post by Orca »

So it's the normal penalty for the action which causes the recoil, double for later actions in the same phase. I'd initially read it as normal penalty for attacks, double for anything else in the same phase. Got it.

Redoing ammo makes sense, especially the famous stick-and-shock. For that one the "side effect" of being disabled for a turn makes more sense than the stun damage IMO, especially when someone pulls out a machine pistol. 15S damage is fun but slightly silly.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

This is where I am going with the ammunition chart:

AmmunitionDVAPSpecial
Regular---
Armor Piercing--½ (max -5)-
Explosive+1-Explodes when Heated.
Flechette+2x2Reduced Maximum Range
Less Lethal+1Damage is N
Stick-n-Shock-1-½ (max -5)Damage is N
Target Electrocuted
Tracers--Bonus Accuracy with additional shots
Capsule Rounds-2-Damage is N
Target dosed with chemical
Subsonic--Reduced Noise.
Allows Silencer
Low Tech-+2-

Regular
The ever popular: factory standard.

Regular bullets in the 2070s are made from a variety of materials. Many of them are single pieces of plasteel or high-hardness alloys. Some of them are even steel or cupronickel coated lead. The standard composition of regular ammunition vary depending upon the weapon. When firing regular ammunition, the weapon's normal profile is used. Some special Regular ammunition on the market is:
  • Steel Coat Many weapons have steel coated bullets standard, and in any case 3rd party ammunition manufacturers produce steel coated bullets in almost every caliber you could imagine, so its price is no different from any other. Steel coated bullets are the go-to weapon against Wendigos, Fairies, and other creatures with an iron allergy.

    Silver Bullets Silver is a perfectly decent material to make a bullet out of, but it is on the expensive side. Silver bullets are used for fighting many magical creatures, most notably shapeshifters. Silver bullets are considered regular ammo, but cost 25¥ a piece. Some armorers still make their own for cost reasons.
Armor Piercing
It is my experience that anything worth armoring it worth destroying.

Armor piercing ammunition works on many different principles, from super-dense uranium (DU) to mercury cores (Jackals) to discarding sabot (APDS) to shaped charges (HEAP). These bullets are expensive, but punch through armor fairly well. Choices of ammunition are usually based on what is available for a particular weapon caliber, but for common weapons or weapons frequently used in an anti-armor capacity, choices may depend on the kinds of evidence different ammunition leaves behind.
  • Depleted Uranium (DU): DU rounds are not highly radioactive, as they are composed almost entirely out of relatively stable U238. However, they are almost as dense as pure gold and cannot pass through an x-ray or radar sensor undetected. The radiation levels are low, but unshielded they can be detected with a Geiger counter.

    Mercury Core (Jackals) Denser than lead and capable of flowing through ballistic weaves without appreciable slowing, mercury is a potent (if highly toxic) weapon. Mercury filled bullets are actually quite fragile, and deform when heated or handled roughly. Only a few weapons producers in Central Asia even make Jackals, and the source can be easily determined from the precise chemical makeup of the liquid metal they leave behind.

    Armor Piercing, Discarding Sabot (APDS) Having a dense core that discards the rest of the bullet during flight, an APDS round achieves super high velocity and great penetration at the target. The system necessarily involves the discarded casing being left somewhere along the flight path, making the scene of shooting hard to clean.

    High Explosive, Armor Piercing (HEAP) A HEAP round is made of a shaped plastique charge, often with a metal tip. On contact the explosive detonates, making a tremendous amount of force at a small point. HEAP rounds can be easily detected by chem sniffers and may suffer cook offs in the same manner as Explosive rounds can.
sabs
Duke
Posts: 2347
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:01 pm
Location: Delaware

Post by sabs »

This damage system feels familiar. Is it a revamp of the SR1/2 damage system?
Post Reply