"Design & Development: Magic Item Compendium"

[User3]

1173576430[/unixtime]]One of the most popular magical items for many 3.0 playing years (and early 3.5 playing years) was the Blindfold of True Darkness located in the A&EG.

It was a hideously undercosted item that granted 60' blindsight (not blindsense, mind you) with a minor drawback that could easily be worked around. All for a measly 9,000 GP.

Once 3.5 came about and DMs started getting savvy to the revised magic item creation rules, they realized how stupidly cheap the item was and slapped on their own revised cost for the Blindfold. Which, FWIC, was around 18-30K depending on the DM. Nobody used the Blindfold anymore after that.

So ....

Is a newly revised Blindfold of True Darkness in the new Compendium?

Yeah, it's in there, for 9K.

[Judging__Eagle]

1174100667[/unixtime]]

1173576430[/unixtime]]One of the most popular magical items for many 3.0 playing years (and early 3.5 playing years) was the Blindfold of True Darkness located in the A&EG.

It was a hideously undercosted item that granted 60' blindsight (not blindsense, mind you) with a minor drawback that could easily be worked around. All for a measly 9,000 GP.

Once 3.5 came about and DMs started getting savvy to the revised magic item creation rules, they realized how stupidly cheap the item was and slapped on their own revised cost for the Blindfold. Which, FWIC, was around 18-30K depending on the DM. Nobody used the Blindfold anymore after that.

So ....

Is a newly revised Blindfold of True Darkness in the new Compendium?

Yeah, it's in there, for 9K.

Hilarious!

[Brobdingnagian]

Okay, so, a refix for the system I posted previous.

A character wielding a masterwork weapon has an enhancement bonus on that weapon equal to 1/4 their BAB, rounded down (minimum 0). If they are wielding a non-masterwork weapon or a natural weapon and they otherwise qualify for this bonus, they instead get a +1 bonus on their attacks and weapon damage rolls as an extraordinary ability.

A character wearing masterwork armour or masterwork clothing has an enhancement bonus to their armour equal to 1/4 their total character level, rounded down (minimum 0). If they are wearing no armour and they otherwise qualify for this bonus, they instead gain a +1 bonus to their armour as an extraordinary ability.

A character who has a masterwork item (50+ GP) in any one magical slot has a resistance bonus to all saving throws equal to 1/4 their total character level, rounded down (minimum 0). A character who has no masterwork item to use but otherwise qualifies for this bonus instead gains a +1 bonus to all saving throws as an extraordinary ability.

At 5th level, a character gains a +2 enhancement bonus to one ability score of their choice. At 10th level, the previously enhanced ability score increases by 2, and the character gains a +2 enhancement bonus to two more ability scores of their choice. At 15th level, all previous enhancement bonuses increase by 2, and the character gains a +2 enhancement bonus to their other three ability scores. At 20th level, all enhancement bonuses increase by 2. The total progression would look like this...

5th: +2/0/0/0/0/0
10th: +4/+2/+2/0/0/0
15th: +6/+4/+4/+2/+2/+2
20th: +8/+6/+6/+4/+4/+4

A character must have at least one masterwork item (worth at least 50 gp) in a magical slot per ability score to be enhanced to gain these bonuses; otherwise, they are halved.

Further enhancement bonuses can be bought as normal, in case you want to get something you can't through level progression (a sorcerer with a +4 waraxe).

--------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, I think that about covers it.

[Cielingcat]

Why do we even need to require Masterwork items? Couldn't we just give them these bonuses, and save their item slots for interesting things like Rings of Power or The Goggles (which do nothing)?

[Catharz]

1174154512[/unixtime]]Okay, so, a refix for the system I posted previous.

A character wielding a masterwork weapon has an enhancement bonus on that weapon equal to 1/4 their BAB, rounded down (minimum 0). If they are wielding a non-masterwork weapon or a natural weapon and they otherwise qualify for this bonus, they instead get a +1 bonus on their attacks and weapon damage rolls as an extraordinary ability.

So a 1st-7th level Fighter uses a +1 weapon, while at 5th level a druid or wizard gets a +2 weapon? Hmm...

[dbb]

1174156518[/unixtime]]Why do we even need to require Masterwork items? Couldn't we just give them these bonuses, and save their item slots for interesting things like Rings of Power or The Goggles (which do nothing)?

If we just got rid of all items -- and why stop there? spells and feats have the same problems -- that grant naked numerical bonuses, I am inclined to think the game would be much improved for the exercise.

--d.

[erik]

1174156518[/unixtime]]Why do we even need to require Masterwork items? Couldn't we just give them these bonuses, and save their item slots for interesting things like Rings of Power or The Goggles (which do nothing)?

My initial thought on requiring masterwork items was that I didn't like the flavor of a high level fighter with a rusty steak knife having that be a more powerful weapon than Excalibur. But I get your point and it definitely needs polishing. Especially so I don't have people getting masterwork pants for the armor bonus, and monks getting masterwork manicures and pedicures for their attacks.

So I'm on the fence.

I'm likely to rescind my requirement of masterwork for armors, but not for weapons and simply count Improved Unarmed Strike as having masterwork natural weapons for the purpose of a character's innate weapon enhancement bonus... so suck it Ki Strike! I feel no need to give enhancement bonuses to the natural weapons of critters.

If we just got rid of all items -- and why stop there? spells and feats have the same problems -- that grant naked numerical bonuses, I am inclined to think the game would be much improved for the exercise.

I don't like the notion of getting rid of all items, since many items are often cool and make players happy. I do like the notion of getting rid of spells that just grant +'s. Though many spells may grant bonuses by virtue of their effects (say like Enlarge Person).

Even moreso, I like the notion of trimming down the number of possible bonus types to cut down on the shitty mechanic that encourages (requires) gathering little bonuses from every tree to get a fat bonus to cock slap your enemies with.

I could totally get rid of luck, inherent, profane, sacred, insight, competence, resistance, and enhancement by bundling all of those up and calling it a generic "magic" bonus. Also I'd bundle natural armor into armor bonus- more on that later.

That would leave me with Magic, Attribute, Size, Deflection, Dodge, Armor (natural/armor), Shield, Cover, Circumstance and Racial. (and unnamed)

Shield and Armor bonuses are actually already separated to some extent, so making the distinction complete is really just a clarification of terms.

I'll need more work on bundling natural armor and normal armor. I don't like the notion that a critter with +21 natural armor can slap on some full plate for another +8. If something is penetrating the +21 of his skanky solar hide, then it ought to be tearing through the +8 as well. Sure, there ought be some sort of bonus for having additional armor, but simply stacking both seems redonkulous to me- so I'll find middle ground somewhere.

[edits-typoes, separated Shield and Armor bonuses per Draco's wise suggestion, and added explanation]

[Draco_Argentum]

Shield has to stay seperate otherwise we're back to it being a special armour bonus that stacks with some armour bonuses.

[erik]

That's fair. I'll edit it to separate Shield Bonus from Armor Bonus. I've always been annoyed by there being two armor bonus terms, one of which included shields.

[Judging__Eagle]

Clikml:

On natural and worn armour not stacking.

I'd say otherwise.

"Armour", like fullplate spreads the blows impact or even deflects the blow.

While natural armour is actually denser material that can't be penetrated.

Maybe natural armour should simply be a degree of DR that is X/- ?

That way it counts for what it really does, actually stop damage from touching your insides. Not deflecting or spreading the force of a blow.

[dbb]

1174186671[/unixtime]]

If we just got rid of all items -- and why stop there? spells and feats have the same problems -- that grant naked numerical bonuses, I am inclined to think the game would be much improved for the exercise.

I don't like the notion of getting rid of all items, since many items are often cool and make players happy. I do like the notion of getting rid of spells that just grant +'s. Though many spells may grant bonuses by virtue of their effects (say like Enlarge Person).

I'm sorry, I expressed myself poorly. I didn't intend to convey "get rid of all items" but rather "get rid of all items that grant naked numerical bonuses". Adamantine sword with the Flaming special quality? A-OK. +1 sword? Gone.

In the likely event that numerical bonuses are here to stay, though, I'd certainly be all in favor of reducing the number of different types.

--d.

[Cielingcat]

Yeah, I never got how DR and NA are supposed to be different.

On magical artifacts: In this system, Excalibur is still better than a steak knife, because Excalibur has its own magic. It doesn't have straight numerical +s, because those are boring and unthematic, but it does have cool powers like... Well, I'm drawing a blank on Excalibur, but other magic swords like Sting or whatever get to keep their special abilities.

The +5 Longsword should die a horrible death, but Narsil is a staple of the genre and we want to keep it. And like all things that you have to choose between, it should do stuff other than give straight bonuses.

[Draco_Argentum]

Some numeric bonuses are okay. Magic that grants great strength is fairly common in stories. There just needs to be far less bonus types.

I'd also favour giving people only four wearable slots so that the number of items can be reduced.

[Brobdingnagian]

Why do we even need to require Masterwork items? Couldn't we just give them these bonuses, and save their item slots for interesting things like Rings of Power or The Goggles (which do nothing)

As I recall, any magical item is a masterwork item, yes? So, say you want a Ring of Protection. You also qualify for the saving throw bonus. You get your Ring of Protection, and use it as your slotted magical item for the saving throw bonus as well.

As for NA as DR... ever read the "Armour as DR" rules in Unearthed Arcana? That actually works fairly well in the case of the NA. Not so much in the case of regular armour, but it might be a good system to use for monsters.

[Cielingcat]

You should probably just give them the Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural Armor as well. People who want to be in melee have to get both of those to compete at all, and so there's no real point in forcing them to wear gaudy jewelry and squander their wealth on it.

[Judging__Eagle]

Someone mentioned that they don't want the fighter to wield a rusty blade like excalibur.

Who cares?

What if he's such a good fighter that he can defend himself against King Arthur or his knights with just a dagger?

The very capable character doing amazing things with sub-par tools is just as much a part of storytelling as the very incapable, but lucky character that has a sword that can "kill with one blow" stuff like a powerful shape-changing dragon-commanding ogre.

[Catharz]

One you mess up the system enough, it's time to start asking if it's really worth bothering.

The nice thing about Frank's Ultimate Codices with K is that they stick with what is recognizably D&D.

If you're going to give everybody of a certain level a certain bonus, and you're going to re-work all the bonus types of armor, DR, and so forth, it seems more useful to just remove all that crap from the game entirely. And when you're going to change D&D this much, why not go all in and play something like SAME?

[NineInchNall]

Well, I kinda like the idea of giving everyone bonuses as they level. Hell, you can even keep all the standard magic weapons and such in the game as artifacts.

I mean, those are really easily implemented changes.

[erik]

In a beefed-up classless/freeform homebrew DnD I ran, I had armor (natural and otherwise) grant Ablating DR equal to the armor bonus which turned damage into subdual damage. It worked fairly well for the 4 or so encounters I ran before an irritating player ruined that enterprise for me. It's likely an odd/inapplicable case since I had a long list of different rules. That said, I have no problem removing natural armor and granting normal DR in its place, though it will require massive revisions of critters, including possible changes in their quantity of DR/NA.

I'm still for stuff like spells that make you stronger, just not stuff that is +X damage or +X to hit, sans any special circumstance.

By getting rid of a bunch of the bonus types however that problem mostly gets solved. Magic Weapon, Divine Favor, Improvisation, etc. would no longer stack, and spells of their like could be drastically reduced/combined and the divine or natureness or whatever aspect of it would largely become flavor text.

[Brobdingnagian]

So, what, Whitewolf then? I recently made a Werewolf character, and it took me forever to get past all the flavour text to the mechanics.

Back on topic, though.

A guy who has awesome training could kick ass with any weapon, but shouldn't he be able to kick more ass with a better weapon? Hence, the requirement for items of a certain level of quality. But still, a little kid with a Shield of Praator, a +4 Aurorum Shadowstriking sword, and Belt of Awesomeness +6 could also kick fvckloads of ass. Hence, the ability to buy or use enhancements that you wouldn't get through levels.

This is also acting under the assumption of the Wish economy, where +4 Rings of Protection and Amulets of Natural Armour are essentially come free with your Candle of Invocation. Or, if you're not allowing the "The price difference between each enhancement is less than 15k so seperate wishes can enhance it further" cheese, +2 Rings and Amulets.

Generic +X to hit or to AC is kinda boring, yeah, but it's a mechanic, one that was created as part of the D&D game balance. It's also something that we shouldn't have to spend significant time or resources acquiring, so the fix I presented keeps the balance, but doesn't force useless expenditure of time or resources to keep it.

[RandomCasualty]

1174328618[/unixtime]]
A guy who has awesome training could kick ass with any weapon, but shouldn't he be able to kick more ass with a better weapon? Hence, the requirement for items of a certain level of quality. But still, a little kid with a Shield of Praator, a +4 Aurorum Shadowstriking sword, and Belt of Awesomeness +6 could also kick fvckloads of ass. Hence, the ability to buy or use enhancements that you wouldn't get through levels.

Yeah, mainly it's just that I think the bonuses of such equipment should really start to degrade. It shouldn't directly stack, but rather it should be some kind of diminishing setup based on the bonus you're adding to.

For instance a lizard man should get more out of wearing a chain shirt than a great wyrm should. Only because the chain mail extra protection is a drop in a bucket compared to its heavy scales, while the lizard man is actually adding a significant amount of extra protection. So I mean a dragon should need some really powerful armor suit to even matter, and even then it shouldn't grant the full bonus it would grant a soft target like a human, but only somewhat enhance the dragon's existing armor.

The same should be true of weapons too. A master swordsman probably won't see significant skill difference (not enoug h to matter on a d20 that is) when using a +2 sword compared to a +1 sword. Heck, this guy is so good, that the difference in blade enhancement is a negligible one for him.

[User3]

Frank and i play a game called Dominions III, and it has stacking natural armor and armor. The trick is, the lesser of the two counts for half.

So a thing with a natural armor of 12 and a suit of armor worth 14 has an overall armor of 20 (half of 12 plus 14).

It seems like a good compromise, but I think it might be too complicated for a pen and paper game.

[Brobdingnagian]

If that's too complicated, I hate to see what you people think of the PHB Wizard or RoW Fighter.

Wait, you wrote the RoW Fighter, and all that other good stuff. No, I'm pretty sure this is a simple enough mechanic.

[Catharz]

Wow, so I've finally gotten a chance to look at the book. I don't think they even attempted to accomplish their "mission." They've got stuff like the "blindhelm" (5' blindsense, 15k) right next to the blindfold of true darkness (30' blindsight). Yes, the helm (ironically) lets you see normally, but it still isn't worthwhile.

There's also this wierd alternate wealth by level system which seems like an interesting idea, but it actually forces you to select 40 items if you're starting at level 20 (basically 2 items per level). And it's supposed to be more streamlined. Also there are the inevitable discontinuities, such as two 10-charge 3rd level wands being "8th level" and one 20-charge 3rd level wand being "9th level."

[NineInchNall]

Yeah, the blindhelm and the blindfold thing popped out at me almost immediately. Apparently, though, there really are people who think the helm is actually worth more than the blindfold.