K wrote:For example, take your choice of shields on thugs or SCs. Maybe you have Nature and some magic with no shield choices: do you make a Totem Shield, a Vine shield, or a Eye shield?
Good general point. Although Totem Shields also cost Astral. Your real third choice is hide shields, which you will not use because they suck.
K wrote:For example, take your choice of shields on thugs or SCs. Maybe you have Nature and some magic with no shield choices: do you make a Totem Shield, a Vine shield, or a Eye shield?
Good general point. Although Totem Shields also cost Astral. Your real third choice is hide shields, which you will not use because they suck.
-Username17
Right. I always get those confused because I never make either and they look alike.
I figure that I should probably write up a list of how to use all the artifacts.
The Race
If you intend to build these items, you should build them quickly. Because if someone else can build them, they will.
The Chalice (Nature-4, Astral-3)
The Chalice automatically heals afflictions in the province where its user is standing. While it is only one province, it works faster than Gift of Health. It is primarily for Tartarian factories, and it is super good.
Gate Stone (Earth-6, Astral-6)
The commander who has this equipped can teleport with their entire army anywhere on the board, as if casting the high priced Astral Travel spell, but they don't even need a lab. Slap it on someone with a lot of leadership and lead big armies in as brutal raiding parties. You can raid or you can supplement with thugs and mages who can teleport/cloud trapeze/whatever to have major battles before movement, completely on your terms.
Hammer of the Forge Lord (Earth-4, Fire-3)
Twice as big as a normal hammer. Since it is a net savings over the long haul, someone will build it as soon as artifacts become available. Not the end of the world if you don't get it. Seriously, this should just go in the normal economic items section, except that the utility is so obvious and universal (you definitionally already have Construction 8) that it has an undeservedly large reputation and will be made right away.
Sceptre of Dark Regency (Death-5)
This is the largest booster in the game. Death +3 in one hand. Once it is yours, you can make Tartarians, spam ghost riders, or put up massive world or battlefield enchantments.
The Aegis (Earth-5)
It's a decent enough shield on its own, but the real importance is that it gives you the petrification passive aura of a Gorgon pretender. This is an unbelievably big deal, as this power by itself makes the Gorgon one of the most powerful combat pretenders available. Slap this on something like a Tartarian or an Arch Devil or even a Gargoyle and you have the makings of something that can rack up thousands of kills.
Economic Items
Economic Items are ones you build to improve your standing in the game rather than to win battles or take provinces.
Alchemist's Stone (Earth-1, Fire-1)
Technically an item related to economics, but a very marginal one. Having it gives you an extra 7 gold whenever you turn a fire gem into gold. Since most people don't do that at all, it doesn't come up much. Can be a life saver for Ashen Fields (who often end up making castles and temples "out of fire gems"), but most games go by without anyone making this.
The Sickle whose Crop is Pain (Death-5)
While technically used in battle, the Sickle actually isn't that great of a weapon. But every time you kill something with it, the user gets a death gem. The gem reserve caps out at 30, so you want some means of getting your gems back (such as following the user around with scouts or making regular stops at labs). You can also use it on Death Thugs like Niefel Jarls to get gems that the actual user can use next battle, but that's hard to do.
Soulstone of the Wolves (Nature-5 Earth-1)
You can use it to cast Call of the Wild for free. If you take it into battle, it casts Howl once at the beginning of combat. It has an undeservedly large reputation because it used to cast Howl every round, which was nuts. The primary use is to make a bunch of werewolves and associated chaff wolves in your own provinces. Choose a forest province to muster in, because you get 10 extra wolves if you do. You can also remote summon into poorly defended provinces, but remember that wolves (while free upkeep) are scum from the huts of scum, and even a few points of PD has a pretty real chance of chasing them away.
The Black Mirror (Astral-4, Blood-2)
This item is basically never used, because it isn't very good. It allows you to cast Mindhunt for free, which is not a big deal because mindhunt is very cheap. Secondly it dispels illusions in combat, which you really don't care about, because that is what void eyes are for. And thirdly, carrying it jacks your MR and makes the scales of the province you are in go crazy. You could use it for stealthy economic war, but it's basically too expensive for that.
Crown of the Ivy King (Nature-2)
The primary effect is that you can summon vine men every turn for free and it provides extra vine men when you do. So you can hang this little hat on a commander somewhere and they will spawn 4 vine men a turn forever. It's minor, but it's cheap. And vine men are tough and brave enough to be useful sponges even in late game battles. You can also use it instead of a normal crown when summoning vine ogres to get an extra free vine ogre, but that's worse than taking the 4 free vine men in most circumstances. It can also be used as a helmet in combat, where it provides barkskin, animal awe, and 5% regen. Remember that it is a crown, so its stats as a helmet are terribad.
Igor Könhelm's Tome (Air-2, Death-2)
You could theoretically use this to gain Storm Power so that a flier could fly during storms and travel around with a juiced up flying thug next to someone else carrying a staff of storms. That would work. What you usually actually do is give both items to an air/death caster and have them crank out 16 Corpse Men per turn. Corpse Men are basically just a wall of meat, but 16 of them is a lot.
The Magic Lamp (Astral-4, Fire-4)
Gives you the special action where you destroy the lamp and bring forth the unique and very powerful Djinn. He's really good, but anyone can take him from you by building the lamp again. A nice boost if no one else has Astral and Fire, but even then it's questionable whether equipping the Djinn with anything is worth the risk.
Sword of Justice (Fire-3, Astral-3)
It's worth +1 Holy. Holy boosts are pretty rare and can allow reanimators to make better undead or prophets to improve the morale of the whole battlefield.
Sword of Injustice (Death-4)
Like the Sword of Justice, it is primarily for allowing reanimators to reanimate better. Has the added bonus of casting Protection of th Sepulchre at the start of battle, which increases the MR of a bunch of the undead on your side.
Thug Equipment
Amon Hotep (Fire-5, Astral-5)
Despite frankly terrible stats as a helmet, this is the biggest helmet around. It cast Invulnerability on you, which hoses your poison resistance but gives you a huge natural protection on head and body. Also it provides Awe, 50% Fire Resist, and +5 MR. It is unremovable, and also allows you to cast the mummification ritual that brings back fallen living members of the hall of fame as mummies. Makes a good combo with armor that has great side effects but lousy stats as armor like Rainbow Armor, Shroud of the Martyr, or Hydra Skin.
Armor of Virtue (Astral-3)
This is like a shroud of the martyr but scaled up to real armor. It also casts Ritual of Returning on the user whether they like it or not, which yanks them back to the capitol if they take serious damage from anything. As such, the optimal thing to put it on is something that isn't sacred ad doesn't have Astral magic while you happen to be a bless rush nation. Most factions are simply grabbing it before Mictlan puts it on an Archdevil.
Aseftik's Armor (Earth-4)
Unremovable armor. Slows you down considerably and has a near crushing encumbrance of 6. It provides +3 to MR and a +8 to morale. Is really good from a protection standpoint, but generally only useful to thugs who have encumbrance under control (for whom the morale is usually wasted).
Barrier (Earth-4)
Despite having the best shield stats in the game (Parry 11 and protection block of 40) and providing Fire and Electricity Immunity, this shield is almost useless for most thugs. The drawbacks are a huge increase in encumbrance and a huge decrease in movement rate. A thug needs to be enc 0 or have a lot of reinvig and fly to make this shield worth using. But on something like a Gargoyle or a Banelord wearing winged sandals, it's very impressive.
Boots of the Planes (Astral-5)
Downside: horrors will eventually murder the user. Upside: until then you can move anywhere in the world during the magic phase. This makes for a very good raider, and can take a lot of provinces. It's not unbeatable, remember that wherever you go, you'll still be there during the movement phase, so if the enemy happens to be moving into whatever province you're raiding, you'll fight normally.
Ember (Fire-2, Water-2)
Fire Resistance, Cold Resistance, very high base damage, and provides both a fire burst and a cold burst on every attack. It's like using a firebrand and a frostbrand at the same time. Good for any Thug really.
Fenris' Pelt (Nature-3)
Mediocre but light armor by itself. It makes the user go berserk, so they never run but also can't buff themselves up with magic. Begins every battle with a Howl. You can use it effectively by either plopping it on a slow character in the back who is stuck behind a crowd of troops (or even a crippled commander who won't be able to reach the front lines), in which case you're just shoring up the morale of your army while starting the battle with some distracting chaff behind the enemy. Or you can put it on a no-magic thug that you actually don't want to run away like a Bane Lord.
Flesh Ward (Blood-5)
Rarely used. It's armor that gives a bonus to blood magic. Also bonus strength and reinvig. The armor value is dreadful but it comes with Blood Vengeance. All in all it's something you probably wouldn't reach for over the non-unique Armor of Souls, except that it cannot be removed and horror marks you, so you definitely wouldn't use it by choice.
Harvest Blade (Bood-3, Nature-1)
It always hits because every attack is an area explosion that does a lot of damage and also gives victims limps. It also makes the user go berserk on turn zero, so it's great for something like a Banelord or Gargoyle that doesn't have any magic to buff themselves with anyway. The automatic hitting and leg wounds make it good against enemy thugs (especially ones that hide behind mirror image), and the area damage makes it good at clearing chaff. It's just a great weapon, if you don't mind losing out on your own ability to buff.
Infernal Sword (Blood-1, Fire-1)
Sends targets to the Inferno on a hit, no save. Sometimes even better than killing enemies, especially immortal ones like Wraith Lords and Vampire Lords. An absolutely stellar anti-SC weapon, and it's really cheap.
Krupp's Bracers (Earth-2)
Twice the bonus of bracers of protection and grants 3 points of reinvig. Very good item for any thug who doesn't want to die in melee (which is all of them). Even better for a thug who has a non-zero encumbrance or who likes to cast spells before combat.
Mage Bane (Earth-6)
It provides a big boost to MR and if you hit a magic being with it, they must save or die. More importantly, anything you damage with it also takes a big pile of fatigue damage, so it can shut down literally anything in 2 hits. Decent for fighting enemy super thugs, not that useful for anything else.
The Gift of Kurgi (Blood-5)
Totally bizarre item. Downsides are numerous. Makes you go insane, may get you lost in time and space, and you will get attacked by horrors. But it also makes you fly in storms and be ethereal and have luck and cause super fear like you were a horror. And it lets you remote summon lesser horrors on enemy provinces. And it lets you spam lesser horrors into whatever battle you are in (which you generally don't want to do, because of the whole thing where you are super horror marked.
Monolith Armor (Earth-4)
The biggest armor in the game. Also provides regeneration. Comes with so much encumbrance and movement reduction that it is wasted on anything that isn't encumbrance 0 and flying.
Procas's Axe of Rulership (Blood-2, Earth-1)
Picus's Axe of Rulership (Death-2, Earth-1)
The axes of evil really are a pair of weapons you want to use together. Each one is a decently hard hitting ax that adds bonus armloss battle afflictions. When used together you get a bunch of stat bonuses and cause a bunch of fear. Decent for fighting other thugs or for fighting armies. It's not usually a first line setup, but it works.
The Sharpest Tooth (Nature-2, Astral-1)
It provides poison damage that isn't classified as poison and bypasses poison immunity. It's basically useless. It kills things slowly enough that it doesn't justify itself against anything but a SC. But it kills SCs slow enough that you don't even win that fight.
The Stone Sword (Earth-4)
Every time you swing it, there is a large area petrify effect. Like the spell. Save or die, and paralysis even if you pass. The large area covers the wielder most of the time. This sword will get the user killed unless they are immune to it, which is just stone creatures. Gargoyles, Golems, and those Marble Oracles from MA Agartha are just about the only thugs in the game who can use it at all. But it's super awesome in their hands.
The Summit (Earth-5)
It's an ax that hits really hard. That's it. It's actually rather uninteresting and rarely made. It does a lot of damage to a single target, but that's only really justified against thugs. And in most cases, the enemy will have thugs that you could use specialist items like moonblades or herald lances and do more damage still for a lot less and get groovy side effects.
The Tartarian Chains (Earth-4, Fire-2)
These are weird. Every foe you hit with them has to make a save or join you. Of course, they also just got hit in the face by a thug with a magic weapon, so they are likely wounded or dead. That and the user gets periodically assassinated by Ashen Angels, so it's not a really great weapon. But interesting, certainly.
Twin Spear (Death) (Astral-1, Death-1)
Doesn't hit terribly hard, but it gives Luck and bonus leadership to the wielder. Sometimes useful just to hand to a caster because it's an upgrade to a lucky pendant that doesn't take a misc slot. It also makes a crappy soulless on your side every time you kill something with it. This increases survivability in a thug noticeably, because they generate their own distracting chaff. Remember that it doesn't give undead leadership and the soulless need undead leadership to not melt (although they will still distract some enemies in melee even while melting, so it's not a complete loss). It seems like you should want to combine this with the other twin spear, but you don't.
Unquenched Sword (Fire-6)
It gives berserking and casts heat from hell every battle. The obvious use is to put it on a thug (who will not run away because they will go berserk) and grind armies down with the heat from hell. It also hits very hard just as a sword. The user needs to be fire immune, because the heat from hell will not spare the user, and the berserking will already be putting a strain on fatigue.
Woundflame (Death-4)
It's not just that it diseases the wielder, although it does do that. Woundflame is almost never used because spending a lot of gems so that a thug can kill things slowly and painfully is simply a waste.
Caster Equipment
Ardmon's Soul Trap (Blood-3, Astral-1)
At the start of every battle, some random ghosts show up. Most of them have Earth or Fire magic, and will cast unscripted spells on your behalf. The actual effects of holding the item are bad. You lose strength and get bonus fatigue every round. Plus you get surrounded by ghosts with a chill aura. The ideal user is seriously a mound king.
Boots of Antaeus (Earth-4, Nature-1)
Instead of choosing between getting a bonus to earth magic with earth boots or getting reinvig with boots of the messenger, you get both. Also you regenerate. It is the ideal footwear for a Cyclops pretender, or any earth caster that might take damage (like a Pan intending to cast earthquake). Outside of battle, it's basically a really expensive pair of earthboots, so it's basically just for battle casters.
The Boots of Calius the Druid (Nature-3)
They are boots, they provide reinvig 10. That will allow a caster to knock themselves out an extra time every 10 rounds of combat, it's a pretty big deal for a big battle caster.
Carcator the Pocket Lich (Death-3)
Having him in your pocket causes curses to randomly sprout in the army. That is bad. But you get an unscripted Death 5 caster. That is not a joke. Death 5, every battle.
Crown of Overmight (Fire-5, Earth-3)
Ruins your movement in combat and cannot be removed. But it gives you a huge amount of bonus leadership and lets you itemspam Charm, which is a pretty nice spell.
The Flailing Hands (Death-2)
It's basically just a Skull Staff, but it gives you a bonus to your MR and increases the penetration of your own spells. It is strictly superior to a Skull Staff for a battle caster, and costs the same.
The Green Eye (Nature-2)
It grants a penetration bonus and also drops a bonus casting of Sleep every round. Can be placed on any caster as long as they are far enough forward to get the sleep off. It's not a combo with anything, it's just a void eye that comes with an attack spell every round.
The Horror Harmonica (Astral-5, Death-4)
The first thing that happens is Wailing Winds goes off every battle. That hits the battlefield with random fear effects every round. The second thing it does is to allow the user to itemspam Call Horror. Not "lesser horror", an actual Horror. Horrors are not on your side, so using the harmonica at all is an attempt to make the battle come out as a tie. Pretty expensive for a niche tactic to try to scatter and destroy an enemy army without actually "winning" the fight, so it is seldom used. But in its proper niche it can be part of a teleport ambush that completely destroys an opponent's grand army and breaks the morale of the player.
Nethgul (Astral-3, Water-2)
Nethgul casts 2 random astral spells a turn for the entire battle. Half of the spells are decentish attack spells (Paralyze, Soul Slay, Mind Burn), one of them is a damn fine buff (Body Ethereal), and the other two are Horror Mark and Blink. There is a small but real chance of Nethgul getting the user killed by blinking them into a horde of enemies. Other than that, it is fabulous. Put Nethgul's user next to something you wouldn't mind having Body Ethereal cast on, and definitely throw him in anywhere you're planning a horror based strategy, 1/3 of a horrormark per turn isn't nothing.
O'al Kan's Sceptre (Fire-2)
Somewhat better and yet cheaper than a wand of wild fire. Itemspams Fireball. Does some other stuff, but you build it because 10 gems for an itemspammed fireball is very cheap.
The Oath Rod of Kurgi (Astral-2, Blood-2)
It itemspams Horror Mark. Really not that interesting unless you're doing a horror calling thing, and even then it's a bit on the pricey side.
Orb of Atlantis (Water-4, Earth-1)
It's an extra water magic point in a misc slot. Nothing that a cheap as free water bracelet couldn't do, but it stacks. It also lets you bring a lot of troops underwater and can itemspam lesser water elementals. Lesser water elementals are lame at a cost of a gem a piece, but item spammed for nothing they are quite awesome. A diverse item that is useful in a lot of circumstances, but which usually ends up being used to itemspam surprisingly resilient elementals in battle.
Robe of Calius the Druid (Nature-2)
The robe gives you 50% resist to shock, fire, and cold. Also +3 to Magic Resistance and water breathing. A great toy for a caster who does't want to be killed by spells. It's of no use for a thug, because it uses the armor slot and provides no protection.
Rod of Death (Death-1)
It itemspams Control the Dead. A powerful, but highly situational spell that has a short range and no effect at all unless your opponent is fielding undead. But it's nearly free, so when your enemies have zombie adjuncts, you might as well build it and hang it on a commander.
Sceptre of Corruption (Blood-4)
Cannot be removed and horrors will eventually come and slay the user. But it lets you itemspam banefire, which is pretty hardcore. And hey, when the horrors finally come and kill your commander, you've only lost an indie commander and some blood slaves.
Sun Slayer (Death-5)
Sun Slayer is a badass two handed sword that operates as a standard of the damned and a skull staff at the same time. And then unlike either of the starting items, it's a badass weapon in its own right. All of these things are good. Item spamming Drain Life is very powerful, and getting +1 Death Magic from your hands is never bad. But it's expensive, and the things it does are often not super synergistic. If you're getting in melee you probably aren't casting, and if you're item spamming you don't need a bonus to real magic. So most of the time you're paying a premium to get multiple cool effects grafted together in such a way that they step on each other's feet. But you can use it effectively. It's nice having a Drain Life spammer who can actually defend themselves in melee.
Tempest (Air-5)
It lets you item-spam Thunderstrike. That spell normally costs 50 fatigue and is worth every sweat drop. It also auto-casts Storm like a Staff of Storms and makes the user immune to electricity. You can also hit people with it, and it's basically a two handed, shock-themed firebrand. But you actually get it to slap on someone cheap with boots of quickness to get someone who is several times as deadly as a Caelum evoker.
Trident from Beyond (Astral-2, Water-3)
Hits incredibly hard as a weapon. But the real point is that it gives a water magic boost and is a lot easier to make than a staff of the elements. A indispensable portion of Atlantis or Rlyeh's biggest water caster.
Twin Spear (Blood) (Astral-1, Blood-1)
Lets you itemspam Lesser Horrors. Lesser Horrors are neutral and not something you should spam in a battle you intend to win. And they are lesser, meaning that they aren't really good enough to beat an enemy force by themselves. Still, if you are going to do a Horror Harmonica strategy or something, you should have someone on the sidelines with this spear cranking out a couple of Lesser Horrors on top of whatever else you are doing to make the battlefield inhospitable.
Winter Bringer (Water-2)
Itemspams Falling Frost. This can kill a lot of enemies. It is not uncommon for Wintebringer's holder (who is usually an indie commander or something equally cheap and pointless) to get on the hall of fame just because spamming Falling Frost is a big deal.
Miscellaneous Equipment
The Ankh (Death-5)
Gives the user a bunch of shock resist for no discernible reason. But the big deal is that it cast Life After Death at the beginning of every battle. This brings back any of your dying living units as a near worthless unarmed soulless. Soulless have deadful stats, but they are undead and have no upkeep. So you can profitably allow your own priests to die (or even kill them off with Foul Vapors) and get zero upkeep reanimating priests. Still, the number one use is to field a bunch of crappy chaff forces and allow their extra life as crappy chaff to double the time it takes your enemies to hack their way through. Note that there is no particular reason for anyone important to be literally carrying the Ankh. It could be in the possession of an indie commander. The point is that it is there, not who holds it. So it's basically slotless.
The Ark (Fire-5, Astral-5)
Only turns on during battle. Every unit that is not both sacred and friendly on the battlefield has a chance of suffering random afflictions each round of combat. Some of those afflictions are blindness, disease, and straight up death. Note that it also hits your own non-sacred units, so the bearer ad everything you want to survive a battle with th Ark in it needs to be sacred. The easiest way to use it is to strap it to a sacred SC like a Hinnom Giant, and then send them into battle alone. But it can also be carried into battle by any sacred unit at all - even a village Priest. It affects the battle the same way whether it is physically held by someone mixing it up or by some sacred dude standing around in the back. Generally best suited for nations that can field whole armies of sacred units like Mictlan or Marignon, but the sacred SC strategy also exists.
Bell of Cleansing (Water-2)
It smites demons on its own. It's not worth building unless you are fighting someone who has a lot of demons. And then you might as well hang it on an indie commander or something.
The Flying Ship (Air-4)
The Flying Ship allows the user to move as if flying and to take along any number of units under their command (well, up to 500 size units worth of troops, which is usually the same thing). It works like a Flying Carpet, but more so. It's incredibly useful for raiding, but the user need not be anything special by themselves.
Holger the Head (Death-1, Earth-1)
It gives you a slow moving headless hoburg champion every battle. It's basically about on par with a bottle of living water, but it's an artifact. Amusing, but not particularly good.
Percival the Pocket Knight (Earth-2, Nature-1)
It's like a bottle of living water, but you get a protection 20 knight who is resistant or immune to most energy types. Being a mounted unit and thus very fast, he does a better job of intercepting enemies and tying them up than most battle spawning units. Probably worth half again what a bottle is, and coincidentally costs that much exactly.
Sandals of the Crane (Astral-1)
Causes the wearer to teleport randomly around the battlefield. Very difficult to figure out a legitimate use for these.
The Sword of Aurgelmer (Astral-5)
Curses the wielder and gives luck. More importantly, it casts Will of the Fates at the start of every battle, before your enemy can take a single turn and costing zero fatigue. It is incredibly powerful, but like The Ankh it doesn't really need to be carried into battle by anyone special. The user's job is done on turn zero, and they can seriously run away when turn 1 comes around. May turn battles, but there is seriously no reason to put it on a thug or caster, nor does it make the user into a caster.
Unique and Useful Boosters
I don't have anything to add to this part of the list, so I left it as-is.
Tome of High Power (Air-2, Astral-2)
Boosts Air and Astral by 1 each, miscellaneous.
The Forbidden Light (Astral-4, Fire-4)
Boosts Astral and Fire by 2 each, miscellaneous. Cannot be removed. Auto-casts Solar Brilliance in battle. Attracts Horrors.
Dimensional Rod (Astral-3)
Boosts Astral by 1, 1-hand. Cannot be removed. Will cause insanity and Horror Marks.
The Black Book of Secrets (Blood-2, Death-2)
Boosts Blood and Death by 1 each, miscellaneous.
The Tome of Gaia (Nature-2, Earth-2)
Boosts Earth and Nature by 1, miscellaneous.
The Jade Mask (Death-6, Nature-3)
Can only be equiped by a Cold Blooded unit, but not just C'Tis national units. Boosts Death by 2, head.
The Sword of Many Colors (Earth-4, Astral-3)
Boosts all Elements by 1, 2-hands. Also useful for Super Combatants.
Pebble Skin Suit (Blood-3, Earth-1)
Boosts Earth by 1, Body. Cannot be removed. May turn wearer into a troll in time, but this is usually an improvement.
The Ruby Eye (Fire-3)
Boosts Fire by 1, miscellaneous. Cannot be removed. Also, generates water gems.
Tome of the Lower Planes (Astral-3, Blood-2)
Boosts Blood by 1, miscellaneous. Also increases the odds that the bearer will escape from Inferno or Cocytos.
Orb of Atlantis (Water-4, Earth-1)
It's an extra water magic point in a misc slot. Nothing that a cheap as free water bracelet couldn't do, but it stacks. It also lets you bring a lot of troops underwater and can itemspam lesser water elementals. Lesser water elementals are lame at a cost of a gem a piece, but item spammed for nothing they are quite awesome. A diverse item that is useful in a lot of circumstances, but which usually ends up being used to itemspam surprisingly resilient elementals in battle.
It also lets you bring a lot of troops underwater
Never do this. It will lead to hilarious and predictable disaster if anyone has a wish caster.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
Orb of Atlantis (Water-4, Earth-1)
It's an extra water magic point in a misc slot. Nothing that a cheap as free water bracelet couldn't do, but it stacks. It also lets you bring a lot of troops underwater and can itemspam lesser water elementals. Lesser water elementals are lame at a cost of a gem a piece, but item spammed for nothing they are quite awesome. A diverse item that is useful in a lot of circumstances, but which usually ends up being used to itemspam surprisingly resilient elementals in battle.
It also lets you bring a lot of troops underwater
Never do this. It will lead to hilarious and predictable disaster if anyone has a wish caster.
Honestly if your opponent wants to spend a lab turn for a level 9 mage and a hundred gems to snipe a single leader and a pile of chaff, he's welcome to do that. If I can drag a hundred maenadsor something under water and flush a wish I regard that as time well spent. I mean, that's seriously one less Seraph that your opponent has.
A hundred bullshit infantry is totally awesome under water, because most major battles are decided by Sharks, and warm bodies keep the battles from ending and keep the sharks fed. And getting Siege value under water is actually quit difficult, and is totally needed because there are so many kelp forts. But trading a hundred bullshit infantry for an enemy Seraph is totally worth it. A thousand gold down the drain to kill This? Done and Done.
fectin wrote:The logic makes sense, but how does the infantry dying kill the Seraph?
When your opponent gets access to Wish, they don't get all th wishes they want. They get to pump up a caster to level 9 in Astral (no small feat in itself) and then pay 100 astral pearls to make one wish. So if they us a wish to yank an orb away from a leader and drown them, they didn't use a Wish to get a pile of gold or blood slaves or summon a Seraph.
So if I can get the enemy to spend a wish drowning a commander and his retinue, that is totally worth it as long as said commander and retinue cost less than three thousand gold. Because if he wished for Gold instead, he'd have gotten 3000 gold.
The information you guys are giving is so helpful and great; thank you very much.
Another question I have: Assuming I'm eliminated between 15 and 40 turns, how long does a multiplayer game take in terms of number of days? Come the end of april I start a summer job with computer access about once per week; should I put off MPing till I get home in August?
If they retreat, do they immediately show up in the province they retreated in? So if a unit retreats from Province A to Province B, will they fight if there is another subsequent battle in Province B?
Or are retreats done after all combat is finished?
Last edited by Zinegata on Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ikeren wrote:The information you guys are giving is so helpful and great; thank you very much.
Another question I have: Assuming I'm eliminated between 15 and 40 turns, how long does a multiplayer game take in terms of number of days? Come the end of april I start a summer job with computer access about once per week; should I put off MPing till I get home in August?
MP games are usually 24 hours a turn for the first 20 turns, then 48 or 72 after that.
If they retreat, do they immediately show up in the province they retreated in? So if a unit retreats from Province A to Province B, will they fight if there is another subsequent battle in Province B?
Or are retreats done after all combat is finished?
Retreating units are placed or destroyed at the end of the phase.
So if your units are scattered by an attack in the magic phase, they will be in provinces ready to fight during the movement phase battles. If your opponent nails the province and the province you'd retreat into during the magic phase, your units are dead before your army moves into the area in the movement phase.
This is why Caelum's late game raiding can be so devastating. If they plan well, they can take several provinces in one go during the magic phase or the movement phase, because they have access to a lot of teleportable and flying troops. So they can beat an army segment and take out all retreat options simultaneously and cause 100% casualties.
If they retreat, do they immediately show up in the province they retreated in? So if a unit retreats from Province A to Province B, will they fight if there is another subsequent battle in Province B?
Or are retreats done after all combat is finished?
Retreating units are placed or destroyed at the end of the phase.
So if your units are scattered by an attack in the magic phase, they will be in provinces ready to fight during the movement phase battles. If your opponent nails the province and the province you'd retreat into during the magic phase, your units are dead before your army moves into the area in the movement phase.
This is why Caelum's late game raiding can be so devastating. If they plan well, they can take several provinces in one go during the magic phase or the movement phase, because they have access to a lot of teleportable and flying troops. So they can beat an army segment and take out all retreat options simultaneously and cause 100% casualties.
-Username17
Abusing this mechanic is the basis of the Fear-based army.
It works like this: you run around with Fear on your guys or with some of the items that cast Panic or with mages that cast Panic, Terror, or Wailing Winds (possibly with Rain of Blood). Enemies then retreat from combat and not only do you murder them as they flee on the battlefield, but you kill off those that can't be shunted off into a province.
So I try to win a game with a race before I start working on a new race, but I've gotten stuck.
The games: Small random map, 7-9 impossible AI + me.
Marveni: No trouble winning.
Awake Pheonix pretender with Air4/Fire4, growth3, order3 and then other random stuff depending on how I'm feeling (usually 1-2 misfortune). Expand fast, site search, mix slingers, carnute nobles and marveni barechests as troops, mix druids and gutuaters, sometimes win an early war, and then 15-20 turns in have Conjuration 3/Evocation 4 for earthpower + blade wind, at which point the AI can't do much to even a pair of druids and some PD.
Man: No trouble winning. Awake rainbow pretender, growth3/order3 and some other stuff. Mix Longbowmen and Tower guards. Screw with capitals using bards. Race to Mother Oak, cast it, race to gift of health, cast it, then climb various trees; use air magic as force multiplier, thug with sleepers, spam seeking arrow at targets capital to hunt down mages, diversify into death, water, earth, astral by virtue of pretender.
Then I get to my first shot at a Late Era nation; Bogarus, which I picked cause I liked the name. I've tried 8 or 10 games and never managed to get into the midgame.
Two different pretenders: Awake prince of death, dom 10, death 5, which people say I can randomly attack with on turn one. I tried that 4 times, resulting in 1 death and 3 failed province attacks. I was scripting him to attack and not cast as suggest; I was using the dominion (for awe) that was suggested. These games never went far.
Imprisoned Orcale; Astral 6; all good scales (cold 3) and dominion 8.
Try to expand as hard as possible with a mix of Voi archers, voi axemen, peshti city guard and the heavy Calvary that cost 50 gold and 42 resources (steep, eh). Usually the expansion phase goes okay, but with Marveni and Man, I'm used to coming out at the top by 3-6 provinces. Bogarus I don't even come in 1st --- usually 2nd or 3rd. I often rely on mercenaries heavily, buying all of them (which obviously would be more problematic in a MP game). Then I work up summons and start using their national summons. Usually I manage to beat one AI to the ground successfully, but then a different AI hits me from behind and does so much damage I can't recover, with another AI coming in to finish the job, or kills me outright.
I haven't really worked out if there is an uber-battle power to their mages that I'm missing. My guess is I'm supposed to be using lots of communions (which I have yet to start to fiddle with), but with no more than 16 mages researching (at 14 points, ~200 research a turn), should I be pulling half of them to hold a single battle point?
I've goten owned by Caelum, Ermor, Mictlan, Midgard, Pangea and Ulm. Any suggestions for a Bogarus strategy?
Prince of Death really should come out with Death 9 or Death 10. It's a lot of extra fear.
Bogarus is a research rush power. The cap mages make an insane amount of research. Grab some evocation and your substandard troops should be backed by real artillery. It works OK.
Orion wrote:Awake Prince of Death with Death 9 and Dom 10? That's... harsh. With that you can afford -3 scales and you waste 31 points. Is that really called for?
Not all pretender builds are for all nations. LA Ermor can totally field that guy.
He needs basic armor and a shield. Without that, you don't win battles with him even with a Fear/Awe combo. Since it takes time to build that, you can safely make him Dormant for the extra points.
That being said, Bogarus's early expansion army is several H3 casters and their horsemen, meaning you need max resource scales. Using any of their lesser troops is a trap since most have critical weaknesses.
Another pretender question:
I've been tinkering around with trying to out-bore the AI of this game (really, this is the most challenging part at the moment) and just noticed how vastly superior Ry'lehs stationary Void Lurker is to a mobile-yet-squishy standard rainbow chassis. Minimally higher path costs, but enough Hitpoints and other stats to tempt me to try out The Forbidden Light on that thing - and enough starting Astral to buy it up to Wish-capable levels and get all the path levels I need by wishing. It can survive horrors, right?
I see that it lacks slots for boosters that the standard rainbow gets, but considering that those boosters you really want to put on your pretender are the ones that can get a squishy rainbow killed .. is there any reason to pick the ordinary arch mage over the Void Lurker? It's not like site searching would be an issue when you've got Voice of Tiamat and Death and Nature mages as recruitables. And it's quite cheap on top of that.[/i]
Horror Marks on your god are never a good idea. Horrors increase horror mark levels when they attack, and gods with horror marks get an extra chance for Doom Horrors. Horror Marks also don't come off if your god dies and gets called back. If shenanigans go on long enough, your god can gt jumped by the Eater of Gods twice a turn.
K wrote:The Prince of Death doesn't need Death 9 or 10.
This is true.
He needs basic armor and a shield. Without that, you don't win battles with him even with a Fear/Awe combo. Since it takes time to build that, you can safely make him Dormant for the extra points.
Less true. I like to give my PoD earth magic, which makes it so that you don't need armor. Then I like to forge a sword of sharpness or an enchanted sword. A PoD really should be awake for maximum benefit, but I could see a dormant one with A4 E4 D5 for some nations.
That being said, Bogarus's early expansion army is several H3 casters and their horsemen, meaning you need max resource scales. Using any of their lesser troops is a trap since most have critical weaknesses.
This is basically true, you recruit an H3 and prophetize turn 1, plus getting more infantry and bowmen, you take 2 provinces or so with that army and then recall the leaders to get some of the cav you recruit in the mean time. You only recruit H3's on turn 1 and 2 though. Startets are too good to pass up on once you start getting resources in your cap.
Indies are better armored in LA too, so I get why a Fear-based SC is better for that period rather than the "stab at them until they start taking moral checks" SC.
Do you just prophetise any random commander or scout early on and when they kick it or you send them to their death prophetise an SC (wouldn't the dominion influenced hp make this dangerous?) or high level priest to give them an extra level of holy power?
Or should you just use a stealth unit to go around eroding dominion invisibly?
