Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a sta

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Judging__Eagle
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Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a sta

Post by Judging__Eagle »

When Races of War was discussed, the lack of the Quick Draw feat (or similar) was hand waved with the statement that Sleight of Hand lets you do the same as a free action.

The problem is that I don't see how it can.

Sleight of Hand


Sleight Of Hand (Dex; Trained Only; Armor Check Penalty)
Check

A DC 10 Sleight of Hand check lets you palm a coin-sized, unattended object. Performing a minor feat of legerdemain, such as making a coin disappear, also has a DC of 10 unless an observer is determined to note where the item went.

When you use this skill under close observation, your skill check is opposed by the observer’s Spot check. The observer’s success doesn’t prevent you from performing the action, just from doing it unnoticed.

You can hide a small object (including a light weapon or an easily concealed ranged weapon, such as a dart, sling, or hand crossbow) on your body. Your Sleight of Hand check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone observing you or the Search check of anyone frisking you. In the latter case, the searcher gains a +4 bonus on the Search check, since it’s generally easier to find such an object than to hide it. A dagger is easier to hide than most light weapons, and grants you a +2 bonus on your Sleight of Hand check to conceal it. An extraordinarily small object, such as a coin, shuriken, or ring, grants you a +4 bonus on your Sleight of Hand check to conceal it, and heavy or baggy clothing (such as a cloak) grants you a +2 bonus on the check.

[/i]
Drawing a hidden weapon is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
[/i]

If you try to take something from another creature, you must make a DC 20 Sleight of Hand check to obtain it. The opponent makes a Spot check to detect the attempt, opposed by the same Sleight of Hand check result you achieved when you tried to grab the item. An opponent who succeeds on this check notices the attempt, regardless of whether you got the item.

You can also use Sleight of Hand to entertain an audience as though you were using the Perform skill. In such a case, your “act” encompasses elements of legerdemain, juggling, and the like.

See also: epic usages of Sleight Of Hand.
Sleight of Hand DCs Sleight of Hand DC Task
10 Palm a coin-sized object, make a coin disappear
20 Lift a small object from a person
Action

Any Sleight of Hand check normally is a standard action. However, you may perform a Sleight of Hand check as a free action by taking a -20 penalty on the check.
Try Again

Yes, but after an initial failure, a second Sleight of Hand attempt against the same target (or while you are being watched by the same observer who noticed your previous attempt) increases the DC for the task by 10.
Special

If you have the Deft Hands feat, you get a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks.
Synergy

If you have 5 or more ranks in Bluff, you get a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks.
Untrained

An untrained Sleight of Hand check is simply a Dexterity check. Without actual training, you can’t succeed on any Sleight of Hand check with a DC higher than 10, except for hiding an object on your body.




Really the only stuff you can 'hide' is small objects; or any object that's one size smaller than yourself.

Meaning most one handed weapons (that can be used two handed as well, but that's beside the point).

So, the longsword is okay for the human to hide, the greatsword isn't.


The only disproof that I have of the "SoH is quickdraw for free" statement is that drawing the weapon isn't an SoH check, so you can't take -20 on the check and do it as a free action.



What I propose is the following: Make weapon drawing linked to BaB.

It is already partly linked, in that +1 BaB means that you can draw weapons as part of movement (such as charging).

[url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#draworSheatheaWeapon wrote:Draw or Sheathe a Weapon[/url]]
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.


So, this is my take on Weapon Drawing:

---------------------------
Drawing a Weapon:

People who have better fighting training and experience know that not only handling your waepon is important, being able to have the right weapon at the right moment is also important.

This is an attack option that any character that can use a weapon can exercise, these guidelines replace the drawing weapons rules in the PHB.

Base Attack Bonus: Option
+0 Drawing a Weapon is a move action.
+1 You may Draw a weapon as part of a regular move
+6 You may Draw a weapon as a swift action, you may only draw one weapon per round in this manner. Even if you have more than one swift action per round.
+11 You may Draw a weapon as a free action, you may only draw one weapon per round in this manner. You may draw a single weapon as a Swift Action (as allowed for having +6 BaB) in addition to drawing one as a free action.
+16 So long as you have at least one hand free you may make attacks with any weapons that you can currently draw and wield normally . This benefit allows you to use different weapons in the same round.

Weapon Types and how they modifiy drawing ease:

Two-Handed weapons (Objects your size that are a light load): Your BaB counts is 2 points lower, with regards to drawing.

Normal Weapons (objects one size smaller than yourself): Your BaB counts as normal, with regards to drawing.

Light Weapons (Objects two or more size categories smaller than yourself): Your BaB counts as if it were 2 points higher, with regards to drawing.

If you have the Two Weapon Fighting Feat, you may draw two weapons that are smaller than your size isntead of one.
-----------------------


Yes, I seriously think that a fighting character should be able to attack with a sword, then use two darts to hit someone, then pull out their longspear and hit an other target. At 16th level.

Since 16th level is the level when a fighter can burrow through a mountain with just a pair of adamantine daggers.

In any case, the standard request for comments, concerns and flames comes at the end of this post.
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Fwib
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by Fwib »

nevermind.
CalibronXXX
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by CalibronXXX »

I'd honestly just go with

BaB
+0 Drawing a Weapon is a move action.
+1 You may Draw a weapon as part of a regular move.
+6 You may Draw a weapon as a free action.

I see no reason for it to get any more complicated than that.
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by JonSetanta »

Just play as a spellcaster, harharr :ohwell:
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Judging__Eagle
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Calibron at [unixtime wrote:1178645445[/unixtime]]I'd honestly just go with

BaB
+0 Drawing a Weapon is a move action.
+1 You may Draw a weapon as part of a regular move.
+6 You may Draw a weapon as a free action.

I see no reason for it to get any more complicated than that.


Because characters with higher BaB should notice a difference, and characters who have a BaB that no one else in their group will have should notice an even larger difference.
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by User3 »

Maybe you should make TWF double your draws; otherwise, double-throwers seem screwed (AFAIK). Sadly, I didn't find a firey emoticon, though.
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by tzor »

Judging__Eagle at [unixtime wrote:1178643649[/unixtime]]So, the longsword is okay for the human to hide, the greatsword isn't.

Which, on the other hand, is whymost Highlanders would insist that you need a feat on the opposite side to allow them to hide thier greatsword. In the end there can only be one ...
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Judging__Eagle
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1178650271[/unixtime]]Maybe you should make TWF double your draws; otherwise, double-throwers seem screwed (AFAIK). Sadly, I didn't find a firey emoticon, though.


Actually, drawing pairs of light weapons and normal weapons for a TWFer is normally permitted.

I should make a note of that.

Also, ammo has always been free to draw.

So a rogue uses darts, not daggers.
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by Cielingcat »

Bam!
However, you may perform a Sleight of Hand check as a free action by taking a -20 penalty on the check.
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by User3 »

Judging Eagle wrote:Actually, drawing pairs of light weapons and normal weapons for a TWFer is normally permitted.

I should make a note of that.

Also, ammo has always been free to draw.

So a rogue uses darts, not daggers.
Yeah, I should've said "note it to keep it how it was, because it could be interpreted to cease to be" - I think I'll hate dummy subjects now ... Also, AFAIK, Cielingcat speaks the truth, but I'd still support yours as a revamp. On another note, though, yeah, ammo is free, but let's let (I think I'll hate myself now for the ridiculous writing) the damn rogues throw daggers - it's what they do in fiction!

Cielingcat: do you have an emo image handy? I wanna cry ... :lmao:
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Yeah, but it never says anywhere that you make a SoH check when you draw a hidden weapon.

The check was made to either steal something or hide the weapon in advance.
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Re: Weapon Drawing & BaB: Since drawing a hidden weapon is a

Post by Cielingcat »

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1178656607[/unixtime]]
Cielingcat: do you have an emo image handy? I wanna cry ... :lmao:


Oh, and the check is for you to draw it unnoticed; the -20 just makes it really likely that people will see you drawing your weapon.
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