Dominion 3 Strategy & Questions

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:23 pm

All of those are perfectly viable strategies in some cases. If you're a bless nation, prophetizing random scout #42 is a good way to get some divine bless going. If you're MA/LA Ermor, you probably want to prophetize an H3 priest for the top-grade holy magic, and everyone who needs a quick morale boost for large armies can do that too.

You need to be careful with a prophet SC, but in your dominion they can be pretty nuts.

If you're EA Arco, the athiest prophet with a stone idol is quite possibly the best non-horror Dominion killer in the game.

If you're in none of the above catagories and it's early game, you should probably prophetize your starting scout and have him dominion push for you. In the den game i'm in, I prophetized a random commander for... you know, I can't quite remember. Probably one of: Banish spam, extra leadership, or dominon-killing geography countermeasures.

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:28 pm

If I have an awake pretender, I prefer to prophetize the commander then the scout, by switching the armies to the pretender and having it patrolling the first turn.

my reasoning:
Scout or Commander will spread dominion at equal rate; the difference is going to be location; scout can be used offensively or defensively (within your territory or without); commander can only really be used within your territory.

But the commander gets the advantage of providing some holy magic to your army, which I think is enough to make it worthwhile, at least in the short term.

TheNotSoEvilNecromancer · Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:54 am

Do the crystal/slave matrices sync up with spells communion master and communion slave or are they separate effects?

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:55 am

They work by casting communion master/slave before the first turn, which you have to watch for but can exploit.

K · Post by K » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:25 am

The rules for prophet-building are small:

1. Some units get better as prophets above and beyond prophet bonuses. There is a list somewhere and with some internet-fu you can find it.

2. Turning a H3 to a H4 is almost always worth it. It's not worth it if the unit is old and will die.

3. Turning a demon or undead into a prophet means you get an undead generator. Some nations even get better undead (monkey nations and giant nations come to mind, but others too).

4. Prophets don't cost gold, so turning an expensive unit into a cost free one is a small bonus.

5. You want a Blood guy or Astral guy as a prophet so you can Communion up for massive Holy action. Many an enemy has been surprised by an H7 Banishment.

6. Fliers and stealthy guys make better prophets since losing one is a pain. Escape is key.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:28 am

How long is it before you can replace a dead prophet?

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:58 am

6 turns.

TheNotSoEvilNecromancer · Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:18 am

I'm going to try to make this make sense so bear with me.

I am storming a castle with an army in Province A. Meanwhile I have reinforcements in Provinces B and C moving into Province A. Do they help my first army storm the castle or just hang out in Province A?

K · Post by K » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:02 am

TheNotSoEvilNecromancer wrote:I'm going to try to make this make sense so bear with me.

I am storming a castle with an army in Province A. Meanwhile I have reinforcements in Provinces B and C moving into Province A. Do they help my first army storm the castle or just hang out in Province A?

Hang out.

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:24 am

I have a bit of buggy stuff that might help someone, somewhere; it turns out that by using shift-B, you can blood hunt underwater. Slaves drown instantly if you take them into a fight though.

TheNotSoEvilNecromancer · Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:15 pm

Speaking of blood something has been nagging me about the Hinnom/Ashdod/Gath spectrum.

Is there any reason to ever use the Son of the Fallen as a pretender chassis? I mean besides having the ability to have a giant hairy, naked man as a god.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:13 pm

TheNotSoEvilNecromancer wrote:Speaking of blood something has been nagging me about the Hinnom/Ashdod/Gath spectrum.

Is there any reason to ever use the Son of the Fallen as a pretender chassis? I mean besides having the ability to have a giant hairy, naked man as a god.

Most gods are kind of pointless. CBM doesn't really widen the field even, just changes it. For any strategy there is a best god. ow as it happens, Hinnom really wants a Blood 4+ god in order to make blood boosters that the Melqarts and Baals will never be able to make without empowerment or a Ring of Wizardry. But even more than that, they want a Blood 5 god because that is the only way they can cast Release Lord of Civilization. Those assholes are expensive, but for what they do they are incredibly cheap.

Now personally, I think that Hinnom warrants an Earth 9, Nature 4 bless at the very least. And E9, N4, B4 costs "only" 537 points on a Cyclops. So you can still have like a Dominion and shit. But if you were going to go just Blood/Nature, he'd be pretty cheap.

-Username17

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:24 pm

It actually costs about the same for a Son of the Fallen to have E9, N4, B4 as a Cyclops. The former's base cost is only 50 vs 125 for the Cyclops, but the extra Earth level on the Cyclops and cheaper extra magic paths evens it out.

Now, SoF starts with Dominion 3 rather than 2, but what really swings it in favor of the Cyclops is that old one-eye starts with Protection 23, whereas SoF has 6. And note that the Cyclop's 23 Protection is its base protection - without any armor covering him up yet!

That's why the Cyclops is really one of the top tier Pretenders out there - his insane Prot score plus fear really shine for an SC, at least compared to the other Titans.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:51 pm

Zinegata wrote:It actually costs about the same for a Son of the Fallen to have E9, N4, B4 as a Cyclops. The former's base cost is only 50 vs 125 for the Cyclops, but the extra Earth level on the Cyclops and cheaper extra magic paths evens it out.

Now, SoF starts with Dominion 3 rather than 2, but what really swings it in favor of the Cyclops is that old one-eye starts with Protection 23, whereas SoF has 6. And note that the Cyclop's 23 Protection is its base protection - without any armor covering him up yet!

That's why the Cyclops is really one of the top tier Pretenders out there - his insane Prot score plus fear really shine for an SC, at least compared to the other Titans.

The difference in price between the level 9 and the level 4 are pretty intense, but yeah the costs might end up pretty similar. To break it down:

Cyclops
125 base
122 for N4
122 for B4
168 for E9
---
537

Son of the Fallen
050 base
132 for N4
016 for B4
412 for E9
---
610

Now, there are advantages to the Son of the Fallen. He has a higher base Dominion, so he saves you 28 points at Dominion 6 and 35 points at Dominion 7. He also has a base blood score, so he saves you a not inconsiderable 32 points if you come out with a Blood 6. So if you go for the Dominion 7 and the Blood of 6... then the Cyclops still saves 14 points.

As a thug he's about the same. Has better skills (attack/defense 15 instead of 12), ad comes with a free magic gore, but he is out 3 points of strength and 14 points of naked protection. He is a much better combat caster because of his Precision of 13 instead of 7 and encumbrance of 1 instead of 2.

Honestly, if you were going for the E9/N4/B6 route with Hinnom to get the Grigori as your end game, the Son of the Fallen might be worth taking at Dominion 6, since you can end up buying the same number of scales that way as with the Cyclops due to the way the points happen to work out. But mostly for variety or theme. The Cyclops would still be my default go-to pretender for Hinnom or Ashdod. Especially for Ashdod, since you don't want or need the Blood on the god in the middle era.

-Username17

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:24 pm

Yep, pretty much. Starting with E3 is a huge deal if you're aiming for E9. Not to mention the fact that most (if not all) nations have the option to get a Cyclops.

Are there any other go-to-chassis like the Cyclops? I know the PoD is pretty popular for Death/SCing, and the Enchantress is favored for rainbowing (sometimes alongside the Crone or Master Lich). Plus the out-of-the box, no magic SCs like Wyrm, Dragon, Manticore, or Kraken.

Because as it stands, most Pretenders are just awful. Aside from the Cyclops all of the Titans seem to suck aside from the Lady of Springs - if only because her two water gems a turn and starting paths lets her clam really early. Forge Lord sounds promising, but you're gonna be stuck with Fire and Earth without massive points investments.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:44 pm

There are lots of go-to chasses. The straight up Oracle is a great go-to for a scales build. Say you're MA Caelum or someone else who intends to do all the heavy lifting with build-anywhere mages and wants to grab a wad of awesome scales. It's free and it comes with a good dominion. And when it shows up in the late game you even get an Astral 6 caster. That's not nothing.

A lot of the underwater factions get a lot of heavy lifting done with the Kraken. He's really cheap and he can take provinces early. That's great for Atlantis and Rlyeh.

The Blue Dragon gets a lot of use for bless rushes. You get a W9 bless (many faction's favorite bless), and you get a monster that can take provinces in the early game. Great for like a Mictlan rush or something.

Some factions have a really short list of gods. As Marignon, you get the big giant head, and since you have a flagellant army, you probably actually tak the big giant head.

If you're Late Era Ermor, you have the Lich Queen. Period. It's a national pretender that does exactly what you need your pretender to do.

And then, there are a lot of nations that seriously don't have a go-to god. Fuck, as LA Atlantis I kicked a lot of multiplayer ass with a Titan. Yeah seriously, the Air/Earth dumbass. I took him because I needed someone to make a Staff of the Elements eventually and otherwise didn't much care. I won a multiplayer game as Pangaea with a Freak Lord, because the points happened to come out right on the rainbow I happened to be making (Pangaea needs a Blood 4 god and otherwise just wants a site searcher).

-Username17

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:47 pm

I've got a question.

How can I tell which evocations are good, which are bad?

My sense is that
High precision = good
Large area of effect = good
Damage enough to kill human troops all the time = good
Armor piercing = good

Say I hit evocation 2. I have fire/air mages.

Fire Blast: Range 5, Precision 0, Damage 14+, Area of effect 1. So a small fireball nearby. That's going to be situationally useful, but generally I don't want things within range 5 of my mages...right?

Flare: Range 40, Precision 1, Damage 19+, Area of effect 1. Longer range version of fireblast. Probably pretty decent?

Lightning Bolt: Range 45, Precision 4, Damage 14+, Area of effect, single target. So flare, except single target with better accuracy.

So generally, do I want my fire/air mages to be scripted to Flare or Lighting Bolt? Or should I keep them at home to research higher evocations (I have trouble judging when I should be putting mages on the field and when to keep them researching: I usually keep them researching until I start to get killed).

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:56 pm

The various "Blast" spells seem nearly universally useless, simply because unless you've got a flying mage without anything better to do with his time you're not going to cast them more than once before going off script and also dying.

The important thing to note is that a spell deviates by an amount determined by the extent to which the range exceeds (Twice?) the total precision, so lighting bolt will be more likely to hit something when dropped into the middle of a small, dense formation at 40 squares instead of fucking around 5 squares from the edge.

Also vital to note is that dropping Flare on Abysian purebloods does ~fuckall damage. So don't do that.

Generally I wait until I have a ranged, multisquare AoE for battle evocations/enchantments. Ex: Blade Wind, Falling Frost, Thunder Strike, etc. or the large area buffs.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:02 am

I'd also make sure that what you're using is Armor Piercing. Armor can mitigate damage a fair deal.

K · Post by K » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:24 am

The correct answer in that situation is probably Lightning Bolt because it's armor-negating and all you need is it to hit once and the enemy will get major damage and the low fatigue on it means you can cast it over and over. (Decent armor and shields can also ablate most of a Flare's damage even if you have a much better chance of hitting.)

That being said, shield-less masses of enemies fear Flare.

The spells at close range are basically useless. You don't script them, but sometimes your spellcasters will use them when someone is trying to stab them.

Also remember that you really only have a few turns of scripting, and then it goes AI. In the first few turns, range is going to be a bigger factor than damage considerations.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:33 am

Pretender Gods.

How often is Lich Queen actually better than Master Lich? Okay, one point of dominion saves you a bunch of points, but you're losing 10 +20 per path. It seems likely to come out about the same unless you're playing max dominion, death only. Lich Queen does have better combat stats, but who cares?

Does Fountain of Blood actually work? I like the idea of an early super-bloodhunter to turbocharge my blood economy, but blood hunting my capital sounds like the worst plan. I assume you're supposed to put S3 on this bad boy and teleport him somewhere, but that seems rather expensive for what you get. Also, it makes me really made that immobiles can't cloud trapeze, or you could have him forge your Robe of Magi.

What do Heat Power/Cold Power do?

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:55 am

I can see why LA Ermor would want a LQ.

Yes, each new path is more expensive than a Master Lich, but LA Ermor generally dumps its scales so hard that it has a huge glut of points.

Moreover, Ermor always wants Dom 10, no exceptions. That saves you about 49 points, or about the same if you took another 2 paths.

-----

FoB is a rather niche Pretender. It can potentially help bootstrap a non-blood nation into blood, like how MA Ulm can take a FoB to start making Bloodstones. In their case the income hit isn't so bad - Ulm's problem in making units is resources, not gold.

I don't think putting Astral on it is a really good idea. You may as well get a proper Astral Pretender and just empower him with blood.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:58 am

The blast spells are highly situational. Good for like an Archdevil or something. You attack one turn, then fire blast. It is pretty damn epic.

What do Heat Power/Cold Power do?

They raise/lower your stats in provinces where the temperature is right/wrong. The modifier is your level of Heat/Cold power TIMES the Heat/Cold in the province. So Cold Power 2 in a Cold 3 province is an extra 6 points of protection.

How often is Lich Queen actually better than Master Lich?

Basically every time if you are playing LA Ermor. I do not think she is a meaningful choice for anyone else. You are required by law to be Dominion 10 and to have a giant death god, so that is basically what you do.

Does Fountain of Blood actually work?

Not really for blood hunting. Mostly it is there to be a late game entrance that can cast Armies of Darkness and Summon Demon Lord.

-Username17

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:00 am

Zinegata wrote:I can see why LA Ermor would want a LQ.

Yes, each new path is more expensive than a Master Lich, but LA Ermor generally dumps its scales so hard that it has a huge glut of points.

Moreover, Ermor always wants Dom 10, no exceptions. That saves you about 49 points, or about the same if you took another 2 paths.

I like dom 9 or even (rarely) dom 8 as ermor. keeps my shitty scales out of my provinces a little longer. Since your non fort freespawn are some of the worst troops in the game, you can sort of live with the cost, plus I hate to pay for anything that I don't use to the max. For a dom 10 build I like a PoD with A4 E4 S4 D5, it covers every base but nature as is a hella nasty SC to boot.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:12 am

I dunno about the LQ being always better than a Master Lich. He is cheaper if you're going all-out rainbow and aiming for magical diversity by end game as opposed to being able to cast a "screw you world!" spell as soon as feasible.

OTOH, casting "screw you world!" spells early is really the main reason why LA Ermor wins and is so feared.

Basically, if you think you can live with just 3 magic paths (Death, Astral, and one other), then LQ is actually cheaper and should definitely be your choice.