What is good Role-Play?

[Josh_Kablack]

What is good Role-Play?

A: Actions that everyone at the table enjoys.

It's that simple, and that hard. What any given individual enjoys doing with his/her character is going to differ for each given individual. What the other individuals in any given game group enjoy watching and interacting with is going to differ for any given game group.

Some players are there to escape the daily grind by hacking some orkz.
Some players are there to plumb the depths of a fiction characters psyche
Some players are there to make their friends laugh with puns and in-jokes.
Some players are there to try to solve the sorts of problems they couldn't in real life.
Some players are there to show off their mastery of an abstract rules system.
Some players are there merely to hang out with their friends.

Some groups are going to enjoy deep immersion
Some groups are going to enjoy being able to solve problems by killing the causes of such problems.
Some groups are going to enjoy high intrigue and keeping secrets in charcter
Some groups are going to enjoy playing a tactical minis game some one-liners and funny voices tacked on for humor
Some groups just use the game as an excuse for beer.

Yet,

So long as the interests of each player and the interests of the rest of the group are aligned well enough that nobody's enjoyment comes at the cost of someone else's misery, that's good roleplaying

[PoliteNewb]

stuff

I'm going to have to disagree, though it's probably just a different usage of terms.

Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but he said "roleplay"...which is a specific aspect of RPGs, not just being involved in a game of D&D.

Stuff like system mastery, puns and in-jokes, drinking beer and hanging out may be fun, and they may help a night of D&D go well for everyone...but they aren't roleplaying.

If you replace "D&D" with "Mario Kart", your list still holds true for what makes a fun evening with friends, but no one would say that drinking beer or cracking jokes were an example of good kart-driving.

You can play an RPG without roleplaying. People do it all the time, and have a lot of fun. But that really doesn't address the question.

If I misunderstood the OP and he just meant "what makes a game of D&D fun/good/etc", I withdraw my comment.

[MGuy]

Your assumption is correct Polite.

[ubernoob]

If you replace "D&D" with "Mario Kart", your list still holds true for what makes a fun evening with friends, but no one would say that drinking beer or cracking jokes were an example of good kart-driving.

This is just plain false. Firstly, tell me a joke you've ever heard during mario kart that actually referenced mario cart. A funny joke, not a shitty one. Second off, it's really fucking hard to drink a beer when both your hands are on a controller.

True story: Playing call of duty and getting drunk at the same time is tricky business.

[talozin]

Second off, it's really fucking hard to drink a beer when both your hands are on a controller..

Not at all. You just need appropriate equipment.

[Josh_Kablack]

stuff

I'm going to have to disagree, though it's probably just a different usage of terms.

Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but he said "roleplay"...which is a specific aspect of RPGs, not just being involved in a game of D&D.

Stuff like system mastery, puns and in-jokes, drinking beer and hanging out may be fun, and they may help a night of D&D go well for everyone...but they aren't roleplaying.

I'll keep my counterargument short then:

That's a buncha pretentious claptrap and you are all bastard people.

[echoVanguard]

I'm going to weigh in on the side of PoliteNewb here. His analysis is pretty clear-cut and rigorously sound.

echo

[MGuy]

I'm not sure how asking what good roleplaying is pretentious. I'm not saying you're doing it wrong if you'd rather drink and joke than do it. I just asked a question more focused on roleplay than how you have fun at the table.

[Archmage]

It's pretentious because if you are playing a "role playing game," everything you do is "roleplaying" even if you aren't talking in funny voices or navel-gazing over your character's motivations.

Saying anything else is telling everyone who doesn't accept your playstyle that they're doing it wrong.

[MGuy]

What? Eating is not roleplaying. Drinking bear is not roleplaying, OOC comment about tits and beer is not roleplaying. That's not a play style that's having fun at the table. Next you'll be telling me taking a piss and smoking are also roleplaying.

[shadzar]

It's pretentious because if you are playing a "role playing game," everything you do is "roleplaying" even if you aren't talking in funny voices or navel-gazing over your character's motivations.

Saying anything else is telling everyone who doesn't accept your playstyle that they're doing it wrong.

What? Eating is not roleplaying. Drinking bear is not roleplaying, OOC comment about tits and beer is not roleplaying. That's not a play style that's having fun at the table. Next you'll be telling me taking a piss and smoking are also roleplaying.

Sadly there are some people that do think everything done during game time is a part of playstyle, and by virtue of having fun, you are roleplaying. Also sadly, many of those people that jsut think beer and pretzels gaming is good gaming, because it is fun enter into discusions about particulars of the game that they often miss while swilling their booze.

There is a game hidden int he beer and pretzel parties sometiems, but that is not their focus. Anything that would take away form their beer and pretzels and amke them play more they fel takes away from their fun.

Rather they dont see many others are more interested in the game than the beer and pretzel party. They dont like the idea of people not playing like them, and get defensive about their drunkenness when a discussion about the game itself is had, because their drinking IS the game to them.

Beer and pretzels though is NOT a playstyle for a game, but just getting drunk. So the good roleplaying oir bad roleplaying can be present in them...they are just too drunk to notice.

Telling jokes about your co-workers during a D&D night, is NOT roleplaying. It isnt a playstyle, it isnt even part of the game. It may be part of the night, but some people cannot remember there is a game in there, and those stuck-up people who only get together to play the game are an abomination to those beer guzzling group that just happen to have D&D around when they drink.

Roleplaying does only happen within the game, and other things happening near the game are external to the game. those Rel's have to realize they are just having a drinking binge and not playing D&D. So dont blow a gasket over the drunks...just ignore them like you would in everyday life.

[MGuy]

Role playing -> Playing a role. If you aren't doing this then you're not even meeting the basic qualifications to be saying that you are role playing. I'm not saying drinking beer and doing other shit ain't fun but that part of the game isn't the roleplaying part.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Roleplaying is about storytelling and a lot of storytelling elements apply to the roll.

While it's a grey area about whether a berserker mute troll who has little personality outside of 'kill things' is a good story, we do know that--say--if the character suddenly falls to things that contradicts their idiom (like a superstrong character failing a simple climbing check on a 2 because the DM feels that people shouldn't succeed on a 2) or if the character does things that doesn't make internal sense (such as a pacifist monk torturing and eating a little girl) then that's bad storytelling and thus bad roleplaying.

Bad storytelling is a lot easier to identify than good storytelling. I doubt that there are more than a few storytelling tools on TVTropes that can be identified as 'near-universally good' but there are a TON of 'near-universally bad' storytelling tools. And I could go on all day about bad roleplaying/storytelling. People don't like the idea that there is a 'bad' way to tell stories, partly because a lot of what people perceive as bad is just subjective but also because a lot of people don't like to be told that they're bad or mediocre storytellers.

[shadzar]

Role playing -> Playing a role. If you aren't doing this then you're not even meeting the basic qualifications to be saying that you are role playing. I'm not saying drinking beer and doing other shit ain't fun but that part of the game isn't the roleplaying part.

I agree, but some see just having a character sheet and being part of the game is roleplaying....because they are there and it is a roleplaying game, so they must then be roleplaying since they are playing.

Role also has changed in meaning from edition to edition, and even group to group that caused edition changes.

I dont consider being the "defender" as good roleplaying...as that is not what I envision the role to be, but to be the dwarf fighter. Extras are the ones named Jedi #1. The roles are named like Anakin.

[echoVanguard]

I agree, but some see just having a character sheet and being part of the game is roleplaying....because they are there and it is a roleplaying game, so they must then be roleplaying since they are playing.

Some people think the earth is flat, too, but that doesn't make them any less wrong. Roleplaying is taking on a role other than your own - pretending to be an elf, or a wizard, or a french maid. You put yourself in the mindset of a fictional character and act accordingly within the scope of the situation (in this case, a tabletop RPG).

Role also has changed in meaning from edition to edition, and even group to group that caused edition changes.

I dont consider being the "defender" as good roleplaying...as that is not what I envision the role to be, but to be the dwarf fighter. Extras are the ones named Jedi #1. The roles are named like Anakin.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm mostly hearing "just selecting a role isn't roleplaying", which is true, but your sentence is almost incomprehensible.

echo

[Archmage]

The whole point of this thread is somewhat ruined if people can't agree what roleplaying is, let alone "good roleplaying."

[Wesley Street]

Good role-playing can include but is not limited to the following:

1. Creative Problem-Solving - Investigating alternative options, working within the framework of the game to overcome an obstacle, etc.

2. Recognizing Mental Limitations/Advantages of a PC - Reacting how your character would react, avoiding meta-gaming, not being afraid to ask the MC what your PC would know about a certain topic, etc.

3. Immersion - Allowing yourself and others to actively participate in a fictional world. Note that this does not equal Amateur Theater Hour. Stating "my character picks up the gun" is no less role-playing than stating "I pick up the gun."

4. World Building - Bringing your own experiences and ideas and integrating them into the group narrative.

5. Acknowledging That There Are No Winners - RPGs are one of the few gaming outlets that permit for a satisfying experience without the need for competition. Unlike CCGs, video-games, or reenacting the Horus Heresy or the Battle of Hastings with pewter miniatures, there is no universal system of ranking or reward for rules mastery.

When the dice (or cards) are the only thing that speak, you've fallen out of RPG territory and into tactical gaming. That's not a condemnation of that hobby as I enjoy it as well. But the two are not the same.

[shadzar]

The whole point of this thread is somewhat ruined if people can't agree what roleplaying is, let alone "good roleplaying."

Not really. Just a bit directed at one type of roleplaying versus another. When you look at the actual question asked, it doesn't specify, but later it is clarified a bit.

Some can still answer with "being the best meat-shield i can be"...as the "defender" is the role they seek to play, and their group may only want that. MGuy can ignore those posts as they may not help answer his interest.

Others may be speaking of it in the context of how the character is played in the game outside of just the combat, and those may be the posts that most interest him and others like them.

Seeing those seeking the role of "defender" or whatever combat role, offers something to the question as it gives a look at the varying playstyles...so long as people follow with the clarification given here on the second page.

Simply put...

Roleplaying =/= just playing

Maybe that should be put int he first post to help people understand the question asked and to answer FOR MGuy.

[tzor]

Role playing -> Playing a role. If you aren't doing this then you're not even meeting the basic qualifications to be saying that you are role playing. I'm not saying drinking beer and doing other shit ain't fun but that part of the game isn't the roleplaying part.

Well, it could be. Immersion is a valid dimension of role playing, not often seen as much in the table top game but is a key element of live action role playing. It can have a minor impact on table top games as well. The right food and drink can really set a mood.

In fact I will even go so sar as to say role playing, that is the playing of a "role" is in fact a form of immersion. Therefore everything that helps immersion helps role playing.

[echoVanguard]

Well, it could be. Immersion is a valid dimension of role playing, not often seen as much in the table top game but is a key element of live action role playing. It can have a minor impact on table top games as well. The right food and drink can really set a mood.

In fact I will even go so sar as to say role playing, that is the playing of a "role" is in fact a form of immersion. Therefore everything that helps immersion helps role playing.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the act of announcing "I'm a barbarian" is role-playing, even if your character acts nothing like a barbarian?

echo