The Shadowrun Situation

[Maxus]

Grouches (Is that the right Word ?)

You mean 'grudge' or 'grudges'.

A grouch is a person with a temperament of general low-level negativity. Like being grumpy.

[Username17]

I deleted my account there because self-important, moronic douches like Medizinmann have far too much sway there. Same with the Nexus forum.

I always corrected Him when He was wrong and his Ego couldn't take it .Sooner or Later he started to insult me (As You can obviously see) and since I don't back down when He's wrong he starts a Flame which ended with him getting a lot of Warnings by the Admins of the Forums.And since I'm not the only one he's holding Grouches (Is that the right Word ?) and Insults I can only guess that He got one Warning too much and was expelled

Hough !
Medicineman

OK, can anyone who is vaguely familiar with the events and speaks English natively or at least passably tell me what the fuck this guy is talking about?

-Username17

[Orion]

Hermit says he quit the official German forum because Medicineman is a douche.

Medicineman says Hermit didn't quit, he was banned. Although he doesn't know this for a fact, he has the following evidence

--Medicineman frequently corrected Hermit, leading Hermit to develope a grudge against him

--Hermit got into a flame war with Medicineman, and received a warning

--Hermit was known to have feuds with other posters as well

--Therefore, we can assume that Hermit got into a flame war with one of them and was banned.

[Username17]

Considering the nature of the "corrections" he has posted since coming here, I do not consider Medicineman's narrative to be compelling.

-Username17

[Stahlseele]

So, they just released a new PDF "Way of the Adept"

I just picked it up. It's only 15 pages (13 plus the cover and the Jackpoint splash page), but only $4.95.

It's really devoted to fleshing out the Way of each adept, in a manner similar to Traditions for magicians. There are more Ways listed (9 total, including the Athlete and Warrior from SR4A), and each Way has a Quality associated with it. The Quality is 10 BP, but it's optional and in addition to the 5 BP it costs to be a normal Adept. Each quality provides a 25% discount to point costs of associated adept powers and an added bonus for certain metamagics.

There are 8 new adept powers, each limited to a particular Way (the Burnout's Way doesn't get one except where the adept once followed another Way), including one that augments Logic and another that augments Intuition. That medic adept with Mind Over Body (from War!) is looking more attractive all the time, since the Way that gets access to the Logic-augmenting power also gets the discount on Improved Ability (first aid) and can use Adept Centering metamagic for it as well.

That's pretty much it. There's no new gear. I think the supplement is cool, and it's a good value for the price if you're playing an adept.

Welcome, to Adept run!
And technically, they made the Frank Trollman Built Adept more viable *snickers*

[Quantumboost]

Welcome, to Adept run!
And technically, they made the Frank Trollman Built Adept more viable *snickers*

Is that the hacker adept or something else I haven't heard of?

[Otakusensei]

So Way of the Adapt isn't a canon rules supplement? Pretty ballsy introducing a line of "Shadowrun Options" products when they haven't released a solid rules supplement in how long?

I kinda dig the mechanic of making some abilities cheaper based on a thematic affinity. And I see why they made it a "house rule" sort of thing. They already have the optional rule about adapt power geasa costing less, this seems like basically the same thing but now with the option to be doubled up. A win for power gamers in a system where they pretty much call the shots already.

If CGL was going to go this route with optional rules they really should have looked at more facets of the game and released a larger supplement. They're going to make $5 a pop off 13 pages this way, but they really needed about 180 pages for $40 that cover a wide gamut of optional rules and refresh the system. It's awfully late in the product cycle and some of the core rules books are getting venerable.

Of course I didn't expect much from them outside of further emergency action to try to maintain what passes for solvency. Keep broadcasting that everything is A-OK and professionals are in charge. Just don't look at the amount of work being released or the quality of that work. Or the bank account. Or the license negotiations. Or the dwindling fanbase.

Yup, don't look at any of that and everything is A-OK.

[Stahlseele]

Welcome, to Adept run!
And technically, they made the Frank Trollman Built Adept more viable *snickers*

Is that the hacker adept or something else I haven't heard of?

the medic adept with mind over matter ^^

[Fucks]

So, they just released a new PDF "Way of the Adept"

I just picked it up. It's only 15 pages (13 plus the cover and the Jackpoint splash page), but only $4.95.

It's really devoted to fleshing out the Way of each adept, in a manner similar to Traditions for magicians. There are more Ways listed (9 total, including the Athlete and Warrior from SR4A), and each Way has a Quality associated with it. The Quality is 10 BP, but it's optional and in addition to the 5 BP it costs to be a normal Adept. Each quality provides a 25% discount to point costs of associated adept powers and an added bonus for certain metamagics.

There are 8 new adept powers, each limited to a particular Way (the Burnout's Way doesn't get one except where the adept once followed another Way), including one that augments Logic and another that augments Intuition. That medic adept with Mind Over Body (from War!) is looking more attractive all the time, since the Way that gets access to the Logic-augmenting power also gets the discount on Improved Ability (first aid) and can use Adept Centering metamagic for it as well.

That's pretty much it. There's no new gear. I think the supplement is cool, and it's a good value for the price if you're playing an adept.

Welcome, to Adept run!

New eBook released, unleashing your inner Adept! Unfortunately for Missions, it's entirely optional rules (all of the Shadowrun Options lines are), so they're not legal for use in Missions, at least not at this time (Like all optional rules, we'll evaluate them and potentially make exceptions if they seem balanced and like they will help make Missions better in the long run!)

http://www.facebook.com/SRMissions

[Stahlseele]

http://www.facebook.com/SRMissions

We at NERPS Inc. are proud to reveal our new and groundbreaking product line today. As usually, using these on company grounds is strictly forbidden since we didn't bother to check if its safe to use. But don't be put off just because we as the manufacturer won't touch our own product with a ten-foot pole, please buy it.

[Fuchs]

http://www.facebook.com/SRMissions

We at NERPS Inc. are proud to reveal our new and groundbreaking product line today. As usually, using these on company grounds is strictly forbidden since we didn't bother to check if its safe to use. But don't be put off just because we as the manufacturer won't touch our own product with a ten-foot pole, please buy it.

Perfect translation.

[Stahlseele]

Not mine though, Sengir from the dumpshock boards did it, but i am too lazy to get these quote tags right, so i simply deleted everything else ^^

[hermit]

I always corrected Him when He was wrong and his Ego couldn't take it .Sooner or Later he started to insult me (As You can obviously see) and since I don't back down when He's wrong he starts a Flame which ended with him getting a lot of Warnings by the Admins of the Forums.And since I'm not the only one he's holding Grouches (Is that the right Word ?) and Insults I can only guess that He got one Warning too much and was expelled

Yes, you can only guess, Medicineman. You guess wrong, like you so often do.

@Frank: His grasp of German is none the better, sad as that is. He is a vicious enemy of punctuation, verb forms, and cases. He (purposely, I can only assume) gets them wrong nearly every time (punctuation) or often (others). You can observe his punctuation issues in the above post.

His problem was: I think Technomancers are overpowered, badly written into the setting and generally suck ass in various ways the way they are. That's probably no secret to anyone on Dumpshock. Medicineman flamed me for a lack of argumentative (cognitive?) capability. I decided - after a bunch of flamewars where he and a full-time nerd who goes by the handle of Tycho (and who is the worst railroading GM I ever knew) flamed me for lack of arguments - I had enough of places where trolls like Medicineman or Tycho are made moderators, and quit the flying horse forums. I asked my account to be deleted. It probably has been. I might have been banned on the Nexus forums (where I indeed received a number of warnings), I neither know nor care.

@Orion: Third-hand rumor mongering is the best argument!

------

The Adept's way: Did Aaron "Mathematically Challenged" Pavao write those rules? Sounds pretty slim for a supplement, even one as cheap as this is. And yay for Adeptrun. That was fun in SR3 already ... but hey, those rules actually are not legal anyway, so why care?

[Stahlseele]

Nope, COMPLETELY written by Critias.

[sabs]

Are they halfway decent? I still feel like Pure Adepts need love in this game.

And I still want them to just come out and admit that magic loss from essence should be at a 2:1 ratio

[Stahlseele]

And WHY should Adepts get even more power to them?
And WHY should Magic Loss only be half Essence loss ?
It's allready Adept/Magic Run more than anything else. .
Well, CritterRun is a close second, but that's related . . .

[sabs]

Stahlseele you suck. ALOT

Every point of essence gives you 2 magic point loss. I was actually arguing that Magic loss should be TWICE Essence Loss.
Because Adepts kinda suck, unless you get a ton of karma, or make bio/adepts. Bio Adepts are way overpowered.
And it's not really already Adept/Magic run. You can make some really amazing low essence characters. What it IS though is Augment Run.
Non-Augmented characters just don't rate. You need Cyber/Bio/nanites/magic/surge

[Username17]

Are they halfway decent? I still feel like Pure Adepts need love in this game.

Adepts are plenty powerful. Combat adepts are lame, because combat abilities are overpriced and Adept versions of combat abilities are overpriced on top of that. It's bad enough buying a whole skill point to get +1 to-hit with your SMG but not your Pistol, but paying double price to get a magic skill bonus to that skill on top of that? Fuck. That.

Close combat is massively inferior to shooting. Adepts pay extra for close combat powers. It's stupid. If you want to have magical martial arts be a thing people do, you need to invert those incentives. Getting magical close combat abilities needs to be really fucking cheap. Elemental Strike should be a quarter point if that.

But Critias' foray into masturbating over Adepts really just demonstrates that he doesn't know what he is doing. The power creep is spooned up on options underpowered and not with equal disregard, and the entire system requires bizarre point accounting for no damn reason. While you can make the case that some of the adept styles getting power creeped actually need it, no one is ever going to let people use the book. The book is so... blatant about being a poorly conceived set of powerups handed out at random and has basically nothing else that it is difficult to imagine a circumstance where an MC is going to give it the thumb's up.

And I still want them to just come out and admit that magic loss from essence should be at a 2:1 ratio

I don't know what you are talking about.

-Username17

[Stahlseele]

Stahlseele :) you suck. ALOT

i try.

Every point of essence gives you 2 magic point loss. I was actually arguing that Magic loss should be TWICE Essence Loss.

Ah, okay, i misunderstood you then, sorry, my bad ._.

Because Adepts kinda suck, unless you get a ton of karma, or make bio/adepts. Bio Adepts are way overpowered.
And it's not really already Adept/Magic run. You can make some really amazing low essence characters. What it IS though is Augment Run.
Non-Augmented characters just don't rate. You need Cyber/Bio/nanites/magic/surge

[sabs]

What I'm talking about Frank is that I want (and in my games I make) essence loss from cyber/bioware to result in double magic loss.

[Username17]

What I'm talking about Frank is that I want (and in my games I make) essence loss from cyber/bioware to result in double magic loss.

So the up to 20x Magic loss of losing a whole point of Magic for losing .05 Essence isn't enough?

Look: there are two kinds of magic loss. Magic Loss from investing big money in high quality augmentations that is real but essentially negligible, and Magic Loss from getting low end 2040s crap like Dermal Plating that is fucking titanic and basically never worth it. How is doubling magic loss going to affect that in any way?

-Username17

[sabs]

It makes things like Muscle Toners and Wired Reflexes less attractive to Adepts/mages. Which is a good thing, because right now, in 1 point of essence you can fit a lot of REALLY nice stuff that's cheaper by far than trying to pay for something semi-equivalent with Adept Points.

it slows down the multiplicative powerup of adept powers plus bioware.

[Username17]

It makes things like Muscle Toners and Wired Reflexes less attractive to Adepts/mages. Which is a good thing, because right now, in 1 point of essence you can fit a lot of REALLY nice stuff that's cheaper by far than trying to pay for something semi-equivalent with Adept Points.

it slows down the multiplicative powerup of adept powers plus bioware.

No. It doesn't. The people you're supposedly worrying about are losing like 1 or 2 Magic points, tops. Doubling that is a significant, but ultimately minor expense. The people you are not worried about are the people spending like 3 Magic and doing some fringe thing. Doubling that destroys the character concept.

The entire point of the bio-adept is that he doesn't spend a lot of Magic. So doubling his cost isn't costing him very much by definition. Your idea is a shitty idea. An over-reaction to a non-problem that wouldn't even work.

-Username17

[Whipstitch]

Agreed.

To me, the funniest thing about bio-adept angst is how the same people who want pure adepts to make a comeback are often the same people who were all in favor of hardcapping things like Kinesics and Power Throw ASAP. Honestly, the allure of having a power at a high rating is one of the very few mechanicals reasons as to why you would want to have a high Magic rating. But that option is largely dead and for what? When the caps were introduced the characters who took such things at high ratings just turned around and got tricked out with 'ware and were often more varied (and in my opinion, stronger) for it anyway. Particularly since the devs capped things at a 3--I guess in some misguided attempt to keep them at chargen parity with 'ware-- which was already a sweet spot for Adepts given that it's effectively the cap on Improved Ability.

[Medicineman]

@Hermit
I think You found a home here at the Gaming Den Forum(You shouldn't let it slip too)
Here You can Insult me as much as You want to, twist the Truth and whatever You want

OK Back to Topic the Shadowrun Situation:
Next weekend wil be a big Convention in Cologne
the RPC (Roleplaying convention) with expected 20.000-25.000 People (For everything concerning RPGs be it PC,Larp,Pen&Paper,Tabletop,whatever)
a Kind of German Gencon.There will be 3 Workshops each Day concerning SR (Future of SR, SR in the ADL and SR & MMORPG )

Hough !
Medicineman