The Shadowrun Situation

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LabRat
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Post by LabRat »

FrankTrollman wrote: Fair enough. First off, Bloodzilla.
Aaaah...that. I remember. Very true.
FrankTrollman wrote: And I told you so. I told you so three times. And I will get to hold this over you forever, because I was right and you were wrong. And that is part of the historical record.
I am have no grudge against you being right. You were back then. I stand by my mistakes and that was obviously one of my biggest.
FrankTrollman wrote: And I think I'm basically done giving you guys more chances.
Personally I don't care. I just thought you would because of your recent reviews. I am currently not involved in any ongoing Catalyst project and I doubt I will anytime soon again anyway.
Last edited by LabRat on Wed May 11, 2011 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Stahlseele »

As long as you keep working on Pegasus Stuff, who cares about CGL?
By this point, it's actually worth it to buy the german stuff over the american stuff . .
Errata and extra pds stuff added into the books when sold, hard cover, limited editions, bundled stuff(sew on patches and shirts, and i STILL want those to be available by some other means than pre ordering a book <.<)
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by LabRat »

hermit wrote:I'm still hoping they go for a slightly more believable Saxony. Less prancing [EDITED] pseudo nobles
Already established. Democratized and cleaned with and after Crash 2.0.
hermit wrote: And an Eastern Europe book. I want, damnit, an update on Poland, Austria and Czech Rep, I want descriptions of other countries there. Of course, never gonna happen because Jason is a Mor(m)on, with all the scope and interest in things non-Salt Lake City that comes with this.
I have a file labelled "Österreich 2075" sitting on by USB stick for all that matters. ;-)

There is also an English proposal of Prague that never saw the light of the day (togeher with Athens and Cairo because Awakened Haunts was nixed).

Maybe I get to a chance to write them one day (English or German)...
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Post by Stahlseele »

Prague?
*looks in Franks direction*
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Username17 »

Stahlseele wrote:Prague?
*looks in Franks direction*
Not going to happen. The CGL guys can't figure out that the Mariensbad Council is the name of the organization, not the province. Nor can they figure out that South Silesia is part of Czech lands (and their shield is on the National Theater). CGL's description of Czechia and everything in it is embarrassing. They couldn't even draw the borders correctly for the Almanac (having accidentally omitted the entire Pfalz).

Even if there was any chance whatsoever of me working with those guys again - which there is not - I could not in good conscience participate in their latest and greatest fuckup involving Prague. I live here, and reading their rantings about the place in 6WA and War! is like listening to someone rake clean a chalkboard.

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Post by Buccaneer »

Stahlseele wrote: ... and i STILL want those to be available by some other means than pre ordering a book
Just to clarify this point. It will not be necessary to preorder a book of Blut und Spiele to get the sew-on patches. The actual plan is to add the pack of seven patches as a sole position to the Pegasus Shop. But alas Pegasus hasn't any clue how many of these packs would be needed. So they decided to make them orderable only by preordering while the book isn't released. Once the book is released on the first weekend in June, all orders will go to production and will be delivered.
So you are free to order a lot of packs without ordering the book.

As far as I know Pegasus will start advertising the patches later this week.
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Post by Stahlseele »

FrankTrollman wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:Prague?
*looks in Franks direction*
Not going to happen. The CGL guys can't figure out that the Mariensbad Council is the name of the organization, not the province. Nor can they figure out that South Silesia is part of Czech lands (and their shield is on the National Theater). CGL's description of Czechia and everything in it is embarrassing. They couldn't even draw the borders correctly for the Almanac (having accidentally omitted the entire Pfalz).

Even if there was any chance whatsoever of me working with those guys again - which there is not - I could not in good conscience participate in their latest and greatest fuckup involving Prague. I live here, and reading their rantings about the place in 6WA and War! is like listening to someone rake clean a chalkboard.

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*shrugs*
worth a shot ^^
Buccaneer wrote:
Stahlseele wrote: ... and i STILL want those to be available by some other means than pre ordering a book
Just to clarify this point. It will not be necessary to preorder a book of Blut und Spiele to get the sew-on patches. The actual plan is to add the pack of seven patches as a sole position to the Pegasus Shop. But alas Pegasus hasn't any clue how many of these packs would be needed. So they decided to make them orderable only by preordering while the book isn't released. Once the book is released on the first weekend in June, all orders will go to production and will be delivered.
So you are free to order a lot of packs without ordering the book.

As far as I know Pegasus will start advertising the patches later this week.
Aaah, good to know . . And oh hey, another Hamburger O.o
What about the shirts? will they go into the Pegasus Store too?
Last edited by Stahlseele on Wed May 11, 2011 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Buccaneer »

Stahlseele wrote: What about the shirts? will they go into the Pegasus Store too?
Do you talk about this shirts? http://www.pegasus.de/runner_gear.html
Stahlseele wrote: And oh hey, another Hamburger O.o
Sure. If you attend NordCon, we could shake hands at the Pegasus booth.
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Post by Stahlseele »

*snickers*
10 minutes of walking from this computer to where nordcon is held.
maybe i'll do security, maybe i'll do a battletech room with 2 of my buddies.
maybe we'll go to war with mechforce germany, us being with lordprotector.de . .
maybe the guys from the official german board will try and get me to play some SR4. but i WILL be there of course.
and i will go to the pegasus booth too.
i've been in the little seminar with tigger i think, last nordcon, where we asked some uncomfortable questions about the shit hitting the cgl fan.

About the shirts: yes and no.
Aren't there plans for shirts with the Urban Brawl Team Logos on them?
Also, i have to ask . . why are there so many girly shirts in there? O.o;,
Did not think shadowrun had such a huge female fellowship of the nerds ^^
Last edited by Stahlseele on Wed May 11, 2011 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Buccaneer »

Stahlseele wrote:Aren't there plans for shirts with the Urban Brawl Team Logos on them?
Yes there are plans and these shirts will also stay available after the release of the book :-)
Stahlseele wrote:Also, i have to ask . . why are there so many girly shirts in there? O.o;,
Did not think shadowrun had such a huge female fellowship of the nerds ^^
You would be surprised. Can’t give you exact numbers but it is absolutely worth the effort. The advantage of the girlie shirts is that the girls who wearing them doesn’t look like nerds :-)
Last edited by Buccaneer on Wed May 11, 2011 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Stahlseele »

OK, good. Fine. Nice. I'm happy.
Hope they bring some swag to Nerdcon ^^
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Ancient History »

LabRat wrote: So I would really like to know who that other person of the "we" was you "cringed" with. Because I am not sure that the other freelancers, who worked on Augmentation and Streetmagic, share your opinion.

Lars
<raises hand> I used to cringe at some of the Euro-stuff. Before the German crew got their act together, there were many laughably-bad Euro-books, including the terribad unofficial France sourcebook from forever and a day back. And Christian Longsing or whatever the hell his name was. <shudder>

But it did turn around and got much better.
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Post by sabs »

The French stuff I've read is TERRIBAD.

1) France decided to go back to the Monarchy (wtf)
2) Arabs? What Arabs, there aint no Arabs in France
3) Bio/Cyber Augmentations are bad! No real frenchman would ever get those.
4) What France really wanted, was more Nobles.

It's just horrible, and makes me want to smack people upside the head. Probably the way Frank feels about Prague.

The one thing I did like, was the District 13 style Red Districts.
Last edited by sabs on Wed May 11, 2011 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Wesley Street »

sabs wrote: 2) Arabs? What Arabs, there aint no Arabs in France
Sure there are. There's been a significant Arab population in France since at least WWI.
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Post by Username17 »

Wesley Street wrote:
sabs wrote: 2) Arabs? What Arabs, there aint no Arabs in France
Sure there are. There's been a significant Arab population in France since at least WWI.
Not in the French-only SR material.

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Post by sabs »

Wesley Street wrote:
sabs wrote: 2) Arabs? What Arabs, there aint no Arabs in France
Sure there are. There's been a significant Arab population in France since at least WWI.
Apparently my sarcasm flag wasn't set high enough.

That was my POINT. In the French SR material, there are no Arabs in France.. not a one. It's like they just wrote them out of existence.
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Post by hermit »

Yeah, I really wondered about that, too. I first thought it was this wacko French law that forbids mentioning ethnics in government surveys somehow, but then I came across the entire district of Paris run by voodoo hoodoo people. WTF indeed. And then the Lakota tribals that have come to France .... somehow. It's not like they're called Native Americans for a reason or anything!

But the only mention of Arabs, I think, was in Marseilles, which went like "oh yeah and there are Arabs somewhere. Also, Mont StMichel is run by elf nobles now, WEEEEEEEEEEE!!"

Did they get their act together, like with the Auvergne volcanic city?

But the Zones Rouge are a cool concept, even if blatantly stolen. Paris needs a lot more muslims and a sizable maghrebian population though, desperatly.
I used to cringe at some of the Euro-stuff. Before the German crew got their act together, there were many laughably-bad Euro-books, including the terribad unofficial France sourcebook from forever and a day back. And Christian Longsing or whatever the hell his name was. <shudder>
Yeah, before Hardy, Lonsing was the worst thing that ever happened to Shadowrun. But most of his shit was tempered or foiled.

Right now, I'd totally support German SR breaking the hell away from Hardistan and doing their own, Euope-centered thing.

@LabRat: You wrote Brussels for Spy Games? Isn't it supposed to desecrate focus on London?
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Post by Wesley Street »

hermit wrote:@LabRat: You wrote Brussels for Spy Games? Isn't it supposed to desecrate focus on London?
That's the follow-up espionage book, Conspiracy Theories. Spy Games is a "Deep Shadows" sourcebook like War!.
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Post by LabRat »

hermit wrote: Yeah, before Hardy, Lonsing was the worst thing that ever happened to Shadowrun. But most of his shit was tempered or foiled.
And trust me, you know only half of the truth ;-)
hermit wrote: @LabRat: You wrote Brussels for Spy Games? Isn't it supposed to desecrate focus on London?
That is Conspiracy Theories IIRC, but my insight into that is pretty limited these days. Spy Games features mostly Denver. Brussels (I thought that was known, if I spoiled it, it was unintentional) is among the additional spots.
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Post by Username17 »

hermit wrote: @LabRat: You wrote Brussels for Spy Games? Isn't it supposed to desecrate focus on London?
Last I was paying attention, the original concept "Cities of Intrigue" (like Runner Havens but with Denver and London as flagship cities) had been completely scrapped, and a couple of other intermediary concepts (like Cloak and Dagger) had been floated and also scrapped. Like how Warzones/Dogs of War/Cybermercenaries ended up being War!, all that spy shit ended up being Spy Games. And so it was supposed to be a continuation of Hardy's favorite format: which was to be basically a continuation of the War! storyline. But with the vast collection of essays about some place high in the mountains that they seem to think is in the fucking jungle being Denver.

So the "Brussels" section is probably like unto the "Poland" section of War!. Only apparently written by Lars rather than David A. Hill, so I would expect it to be less brutally offensive than the segment in War!. Like, probably not offensive at all. But it's still going to be two pages tucked into a "random other shit" chapter, so don't hold your breath on it bringing any epiphanies.
Labrat wrote:I just thought you would because of your recent reviews.
For some time I have asked myself what exactly Shadowrun would have to do to make me stop reading books. I mean, there was no excuse for 6WA, right? It was woefully incomplete, the map didn't match the history or the text, the fiction was racist and insulting, and the fundamental demographic data that such a book is supposedly for was simply missing. But that didn't stop me from reading and being disappointed.

And yet despite that, I kept reading. War! and Attitude were even worse, being even more useless and in their charming fashion even more insulting. So you'd think that I might have hit some sort of threshold of being appalled by which I would no longer consent to read their shit. But honestly, I don't think that was it. Reading CGL books is like watching a car crash, the travesty and jaw droppingly horrible prose and below bottom-basement production standards is something that is hard to look away from. The truth of the matter is that going to Africa is breaking my habit.

I'll have shit to do in Accra, and have no way to pick the book up in any case. And I just don't think that the lure of atrocity would be enough to get me to read such a book when it was no longer new. I haven't gone back and read War!, because it's shit and without that "new shit smell" it just doesn't hold my interest.

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Post by hermit »

Ah, it's Denver. Well, at least no place I am hugely invested in, only a place where I'm kinda sad to see it ruined, but then again, that's already been done in large parts by the Ghostwalker storyline.
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Post by sabs »

Hermit, I still want to work on that France fix up. If you're going to go with Nobility in France (which really.. why would you do that to France) they could at least go all Napoleonic. That might be worth something. But really, I hate every idea they've floated in the French stuff.

It's only saving grace is that compared to Africa, it's actually well thought out and logical.
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Post by Stahlseele »

Frank?
Do you read the german stuff? O.o
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by hermit »

Hermit, I still want to work on that France fix up. If you're going to go with Nobility in France (which really.. why would you do that to France) they could at least go all Napoleonic. That might be worth something. But really, I hate every idea they've floated in the French stuff.
Well, I'd like to remain compatible to SoE. However, going napoleonic/oligarchist instead of prancing belle epoque types straight from some bishounen anime certainly is a good thing.

I also think the fashion with nobles should change from no-cyber to Johnny-Spinrad-Style. Because it's fashion. ^^

I think I'm more or less over the worst of my frustrations. In a way, I am like Frank, I still read SR books despite them being so horribad. And I'm not like to go to Africa any time soon.
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Post by kzt »

Stahlseele wrote: By this point, it's actually worth it to buy the german stuff over the american stuff . .
Except for it being in German.
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