Cheese Updates, 3.5

[Thoth_Amon]

I think we went through this excercise before because I am getting deja vu...However...:

Dimension Door (Su): A blink dog can teleport, as dimension door (caster level 8th), once per round as a free action. The ability affects only the blink dog, which never appears within a solid object and can act immediately after teleporting.

Share Spells: At the paladin’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her mount. The mount must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the mount if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the mount again even if it returns to the paladin before the duration expires. Additionally, the paladin may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her mount (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A paladin and her mount can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the mount’s type (magical beast).

My recollection is in the Arms and Equipment guide it states that you can purchase a Ring of Blinking and it will atune itself to your mount allowing you to blink in concert with your mount. But how do you get to dim door with it again?

Thanks,

TA

[Username17]

The Sage said that Familiar Share Spells was reciprocal - that is, that a familiar who can create magical effects is able to share them with the wizard.

Paladin share spells works exactly the same way - so the same logic applies.

Is it in the rules? No it is not - but it was said by an official source. Now "official sources" say all kinds of crazy crap, but if you want to be able to dimension door with your mount there's certainly precedent for it.

-Username17

[Thoth_Amon]

Since the standard mount for a small charcter paladin is a war pony or riding dog, how do you convert that Blink Dog Action? (Not with standing the hours per day limit.) Do you just go buy one and befriend it? HOw did that work in your game?

Any small character can have the minimum feats to make it awesome (Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge, Mounted Archery, and Power Attack)

At 10th level a 5/5 pally/Halfling outrider has 4 feats, 5 if he is a Strongheart. You need Ride By Attack to get Spirited Charge so you need all 5 feats to get this done. So it is not really *any* small character is it?

If you move beyond 10th and decide to go into Templar or Devoted Defender you are looking at a problem as well. It is not like you are getting alertness from your mount! So you are 2 feats shy to getting into either (Focus and either Alertness or Endurance)

Sorry, I am just trying to think this through...

I see how it has utility at 10th, but like you say, most games don't survive to 10th and I would hate to retire a character just as he became functional!!

TA

[Username17]

Defenders of the Faith still applies, and of course the 3.5 DMG says your cohort can be your special mount, if you want.

According to DotF, you can just have another appropriate Mount by dropping yourself down a few levels on the chart. Blink Dogs are Lawful Good, CR 2 and easily fit inside those guidelines.

According to the 3.5 Monster Manual, Blink Dogs only have a Level Adjustment of +2 as a Cohort, so they are available when you have access to a Level 6 Cohort (Paladin 5/Outrider 3), at which point you have an 8 hit die Blink Dog with improved speed and share spells to ride around on.

A Paladin's Mount in any case simply shows up - you don't have to buy one.

Alertness comes for free out of the Outrider class at first level.

-Username17

[Thoth_Amon]

True, but you added Leadership into the mix!! Power attack or Spirited Charge go by the wayside.

That and I wanted to be CN. (Damn goody two shoes blink dogs.)

TA

[Thoth_Amon]

I should probably mention that I am looking at the Anarch (the Chaotic Neutral Paladin Variant in a 3.5 Dragon Magazine.) They get to turn constructs, but are pretty much like CN Paladins otherwise...

TA

[Lago_AM3P]

You know, I really wish Andy and Skip would get over their need to make rules willy-nilly.

Like in the FAQ, it states that you can't stack temporary hp from different sources (like a divine power and a greater heroism), but temporary hp from the SAME source stack.

Apparently, they thought that it'd be ungamebalancing for a cleric to walk into combat with about 65+ extra temporary hp (which must be done in a short time span), but it's NOT unbalancing for a wizard to burn through all of his 4th and 5th level spell slots ahead of time (with an extended vampiric touch) and gain 350 extra temporary hp for almost two hours. WTF?

[Username17]

Power attack or Spirited Charge go by the wayside.

Unless you are a strongheart halfling or goblin.

I should probably mention that I am looking at the Anarch (the Chaotic Neutral Paladin Variant in a 3.5 Dragon Magazine.) They get to turn constructs, but are pretty much like CN Paladins otherwise...

Um... that prevents you from ever riding around on a Blink Dog.

Now... Paladin Turning is basically worthless, and Construct Turning isn't any better. Construct CRs are much lower than their hit dice.

However, you can still summon yourself a Climb Dog and ride around shooting people to great effect - and it's not like you need to teleport around for attacking twice for triple damage to be effective.

You know, I really wish Andy and Skip would get over their need to make rules willy-nilly.

Yes.

Like in the FAQ, it states that you can't stack temporary hp from different sources (like a divine power and a greater heroism), but temporary hp from the SAME source stack.

Slapping down temporary hit points from different sources is dumb - but you can't make temporary hit points from the same source not stack - the vast majority of sources of temporary hit points hand out the bonuses in small increments (for example, many undead get 5 points per time they hit people).

-Username17

[Thoth_Amon]

"Any small character can have the minimum feats to make it awesome (Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge, Mounted Archery, and Power Attack)"

+ Leadership

= Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack, Spirited Charge, Mounted Archery, Power Attack, Leadership

How does a Strongheart pull this off at 10th level without FIghter levels? 2 at 1st, 1 at 3rd, 1 at 6th, and 1 at 9th. That is 5 as a goblin or Strongheart. You need 6 from what I understood. Or is one of these a bonus feat in the Halfling Outrider deal?

Spirited Charge or Power attack fall by the wayside.

And I need a Fiendish Blink Dog!!

TA

[Username17]

Oops, I forgot about Ride-by Attack.

However, you don't need Leadership. Your Leadership feat simply sets the basic mount as a cohort and subject to level gaining. That's really nice, but unnecessary.

As per the guidelines in DotF, a Paladin can summon a Mount which is 3 CR or more less than himself - so a 5th level Paadin can just summon a Blink Dog. You don't need Leadership for this, you can just do it as a 5th level Paladin.

You can't have Fiendish Blink Dogs. The template can be placed on any non-good creature - not on Blink Dogs.

-Username17

[User3]

You can't hop back on your blink dog as a free action unless you have a move action left in the round. Charge is a full-round action.

Also, even if you liberally interpret Leap from the Saddle to say that you actually gain a free attack and that it acts exactly like a charge in ALL respects, you only do double damage with a lance because you aren't mounted at the time of the attack.

You could have a half-dragon blink dog. The template can be added to any living, corporeal creature and it gains the alignment of the dragon.

[Username17]

Charge is a full-round action.

That's extremely debatable. When engaging in mounted combat it is technically the mount who performs the charge action, not you.

If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you recieve the bonus gained from the charge.

You actually take the "attack action", which is a standard action, leaving you a move action left over to do anything you want with. Your mount takes a full round action, but you aren't allowed to while mounted.

Also, even if you liberally interpret Leap from the Saddle to say that you actually gain a free attack and that it acts exactly like a charge in ALL respects,

I don't see how that's especially liberal. The ability to Fast Dismount as a Free Action with no bonus attack and a DC 20 Ride Check is a normal property of the Ride Skill. As in, unless you can get a bonus attack out of the deal it's not a class feature at all.

You could have a half-dragon blink dog. The template can be added to any living, corporeal creature and it gains the alignment of the dragon.

This would work, although it has the problem that you will need your DM to house-rule up a Half-Topaz Dragon template for your Blink Dog to have. That's pretty weird looking, so it probably works with your character concept pretty well.

-Username17

[User3]

You're absolutely right about the charge action. I never noticed that it's actually the mount that uses action and not you. You apparently do have a move action left over.

I still don't see how you can claim triple damage while attacking after dismounting. The ability's description even says "just as if *the character* were making a charge." It doesn't say anything about the mount.

The Draconomicon has rules for half-dragon gem dragons and a bunch of others.

[Thoth_Amon]

These are interesting solutions to my CN issue!

I may post the build tomorrow for fun.

Since the ECL for the half dracon template for CR will increase the CR above the legal pally mount limit, I will have to squeek in leadership after all.

TA

[User3]

A blink dog's alignment is listed as "Usually lawful good," not always. So can't you just find a chaotic neutral one?

[Username17]

The legal limit for a Pally's mount is CR 4 at level 7, so you technically could get a Half-Topaz Dragon Blink Dog as an Anarch 5 / Outrider 2.

Which is what you are looking for, neh?

A blink dog's alignment is listed as "Usually lawful good," not always. So can't you just find a chaotic neutral one?

Using Leadership, yes. However when you summon one you don't have a specific one until you summon it. Which is a particularly weird aspect of the whole process, but nevertheless true. As written, I don't see how Paladins can get horses, which are after all, Always Neutral.

It's a rule that I don't see enforced ever, but since you are playing something extremely strange, you should probably plan for it.

-Username17

[User3]

I don't see anything in the rules that say you have to call for a generic creature. If you can choose between calling a heavy warhorse and a warpony, why can't you choose to call for "a chaotic neutral blink dog" and hope that one shows up?

[Username17]

Well, you would call for a Blink Dog - and if one showed up it would be a Chaotic Neutral Magical Beast.

Which is fine and all, but you have to ask yourself if that makes it an "appropriate magical beast" for a Chaotic Neutral Paladin to call. I don't have an answer for you, because that restriction is not actually explained at all. But the only thing I can especially think of for it to mean is "appropriately aligned normally" - because it already goes over size, power level, and body-plan separately. But maybe it's just supposed to mean that you can only select a magical beast if it goes with your outfit.

Problem: A Half-Dragon Blink Dog is a Dragon, and not an Animal, Vermin, or Magical Beast - which means that you can't spontaneously call one. You actually will need Leadership if you go that route.

-Username17

[User3]

Another problem: The phb specifically prohibits you from sharing spell-like abilities. A blink dog's blink and dimension door abilities are supernatural, so by what logic could you share them?

[Thoth_Amon]

Leadership is required if I want to advance it beyond Pally abilities as well anyway right? I can't have awaken cast on it becasue it was never an animal...

TA

[Desdan_Mervolam]

One idea I entertained was to play a Gnomish White Paladin(Paladin of Murlynd, see Dragon 306. They're interested in technology and are allowed to use guns) who rides a medium-sized Equine Golem from the A&EG as his bonded mount. How hard would that be to make legal?

-Desdan

[Username17]

Well, getting a riding golem is trivial to make legal - you just need to have a 12th level Wizard and a 12th level Cleric cooperate - and then you get something which is the suck (a medium-sized Equine Golem is lucky to come in at a CR of 3, honestly).

Alternately, you could slap the Half-Iron Golem template to a pony or wardog - giving you a powerful and magic immune mount. Which unfortunately, can't run and is thus virtually worthless.

Which is, of course, the problem with construct mounts in the 3.5 rulesset - they can't run and are thus not good as mounts. And the problem with the construct manufacturing rules is that they have such high spellcasting requirements to make that they are simply not worth much by the time you are allowed to make one.

However, if the DM were willing to wave the impracticalities - here's a half-golem blink dog:

Teleporting Iron Dog
Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 4d10+20 (42 hit points)
Speed: 40 feet (can't run)
AC: 23 (+11 natural, +2 dex)
BAB: +3
Attack: Bite +9
Damage: Bite 1d6+9
Special Attacks: Poisonous Breath Weapon
Special Qualities: Blink, Darkvision 60 ft., Dimension Door, Low-light, Scent, DR 10/Adamantite, Magic Immunity, Rust Vulnerability.
CR: 5

Go nuts!

-Username17

[User3]

Here's some cheese I thought of since learning that your mount uses the charge action instead of you.

Get two gloves of storing and a ring of blinking. Take Expert Tactician. Charge towards target, use your full-round action to make a full ranged attack with your ranged weapon. Store it and retrieve your lance. When you charge, blinking, into melee range with your lance, use your free attack from expert tactician with spirited charge.

Alternatively, you could take improved feint, using it when you come into melee range to generate your charge attack, which leaves you a standard action to cast a spell, use manshot, etc. and it doesn't cost you any gp or give you a miss chance.

[Thoth_Amon]

Ok I am doing this from memory (for Outrider and Anarch so I am including some mistakes I will correct tonight...)

Code: Select all

[br]Lvl	Class		BAB	Fort	Reflex	Will	HD	[br]1	Anarch 1 (#)	+1	+0	+2	+0	D10	Aura of Chaos, Detect Law, Smite Law,[br]								Mounted Combat*, Ride By Attack*[br]2	Anarch 2	+2	+0	+3	+0	D10	Divine Grace, Aura of Courage[br]3	Anarch 3	+3	+1	+3	+1	D10	Slippery Mind, Mounted Archery*[br]4	Anarch 4	+4	+1	+4	+1	D10	Turn Construct, Smite Law 2/day, [br]								Spells[br]5	Anarch 5	+5	+1	+4	+1	D10	Special Mount[br]6	H. Outrider 1	+6	+1	+6	+1	D10	Alertness, Mount, Ride Bonus +2, [br]								Leadership*[br]7	H. Outrider 2	+7	+1	+7	+1	D10	Ride Defensively[br]8	H. Outrider 3	+8	+2	+7	+2	D10	[br]9	H. Outrider 4	+9	+2	+8	+2	D10	Weapon Focus (Lance)*[br]10	H. Outrider 5	+10	+2	+8	+2	D10	Leap from the Saddle[br]11	Devoted Def. 1	+11	+4	+10	+2	D12	Harms Way, AC +1[br]12	Devoted Def. 2	+12	+5	+11	+2	D12	Defensive Strike, AC +1, [br]								Spirited Charge*[br]13	Devoted Def. 3	+13	+5	+11	+3	D12	Deflect Attack +1, AC +2[br]14	Devoted Def. 4	+14	+6	+12	+3	D12	Defensive Strike +1, AC +2[br]15	Devoted Def. 5	+15	+6	+12	+3	D12	Deflect Attack +2, AC +3, Power Attack*[br]16	Devoted Def. 6	+16	+7	+13	+4	D12	Defensive Strike +2, AC +3[br]17	Devoted Def. 7	+17	+7	+13	+4	D12	Deflect Attack +3, AC +4[br]18	Devoted Def. 8	+18	+8	+14	+4	D12	Defensive Strike +3, AC +4, [br]								Improved Critical (Lance)*[br]19	Devoted Def. 9	+19	+8	+14	+5	D12	Deflect Attack +4, AC +5[br]20	Devoted Def. 10	+20	+9	+15	+5	D12	Defensive Strike +4, AC +5[br]

The Anarch class comes from Dragon Magazine 310 and I will double check the abilities when I get home.

I have not reconfirmed the Outrider abilities either.

I am working on the CN Mount issue now.

The blinkdogs abilities being Su might present a problem, so I might have to consider other mounts (Shadow Mastiff?)

Thanks for everyone's help!!

TA

Edit. I left out Leadership so I had to shunt Spirited Charge and then Improved Critical down in the list...

[Thoth_Amon]

Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon

Medium Dragon
Hit Dice: 4d12 (35 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (+3 Dex, +7 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+4
Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d6+4)
Full Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d6+4) and 2 Claws +6 (1d4+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Blink, darkvision 60 ft., dimension door, low-light vision, scent, Immunity to Sleep, Paralysis, and Cold, Breath Weapon
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +7, Will +4
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 13
Skills: Hide +3, Listen +5, Sense Motive +3, Spot +5, Survival +4
Feats: Iron Will, Run, Track
Environment: Temperate plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (7–16)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Advancement: 5–7 HD (Medium); 8–12 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: +5 (cohort)

The Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon is an intelligent Draconic Canine halfbreed that has a limited teleportation ability.
Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon have their own language, a mixture of barks, yaps, whines, and growls that can transmit complex information. (Not sure if the half dragon component permits them speech)

COMBAT
Blink (Su): A Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon can use blink as the spell (caster level 8th), and can evoke or end the effect as a free action.
Breath Weapon (Su): The breath weapon is a 30 foot cone of dehydration, usable once per day and allows a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 half-dragon's racial HD + half-dragon's Constitution modifier) for half damage. DC 13
Darkvision (Ex): The Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon has darkvision to a 60-foot range.
Dimension Door (Su): A Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon can teleport, as dimension door (caster level 8th), once per round as a free action. The ability affects only the blink dog, which never appears within a solid object and can act immediately after teleporting.
Immunities (Ex): The Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon is immune to sleep, paralysis,and cold effects.
Low-Light Vision (Ex):The Half Blink Dog/Half Topaz Dragon has low-light vision.

I think that is right. I applied the Savage Progression from the wizards web site to the Blink Dog. Note this does not explicitly change the Alignment but I have changed it regardless.

Also note if the Blink dog were large it would have wings! (which would open all sorts of cohort mount feats like "fly by attack")

TA

EDIT: Changed CR to 4 from 5.