Pathfinder Is Still Bad

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fectin
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Post by fectin »

CapnTthePirateG wrote:
hogarth wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote: Spellfire also predates Magic of Faerun. He made a bunch of Spellfire expansion options in Magic of Faerun that powered it up to "stupid".
What was it like before and what was it like afterwards? (Note: I may check to see if what you're saying is actually accurate.)
Pretty sure you couldn't actually get it as a player in the 3.0 FRCS. I could be wrong.
You're wrong. Spellfire was printed as a feat in the 3.0 Magic of Faerun, and bolstered with a prestige class. It was pretty broken, especially for casters. But it required DM permission, so it must have been okay, right?

Edit: what koumei said, only it could heal you as well.
Last edited by fectin on Thu May 26, 2011 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koumei »

fectin: I totally mentioned the healing. And it's possible the actual FRCS book first introduced Spellfire.

I dunno, I mysteriously lost all my D&D books when my old laptop died.
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Post by CapnTthePirateG »

fectin wrote:
CapnTthePirateG wrote:
hogarth wrote: What was it like before and what was it like afterwards? (Note: I may check to see if what you're saying is actually accurate.)
Pretty sure you couldn't actually get it as a player in the 3.0 FRCS. I could be wrong.
You're wrong. Spellfire was printed as a feat in the 3.0 Magic of Faerun, and bolstered with a prestige class. It was pretty broken, especially for casters. But it required DM permission, so it must have been okay, right?

Edit: what koumei said, only it could heal you as well.
Mechanics were in FRCS, feat was in MoF. I remember reading the FRCS and wondering "why are there rules for spellfire if no one can use it?"
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Post by Maxus »

CapnTthePirateG wrote: Mechanics were in FRCS, feat was in MoF. I remember reading the FRCS and wondering "why are there rules for spellfire if no one can use it?"
"ELMINSTEERRRRRRRR *fapfapfap*"
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Post by hogarth »

Leress wrote:SKR also wrote New Argonauts which takes away a lot of classes (only the fighter, rogue, and barbarian remain) and then puts in a very overpowered casting class.
Again, it's clear that the Hellenic Sorceress was not intended to be "very overpowered", considering that it's worse than a sorcerer in almost all conceivable ways and that he goes on about how "the extreme power of a cleric, druid, sorcerer, or wizard in a low-magic can throw the system out of whack".
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Post by tzor »

Leress wrote:SKR also wrote New Argonauts which takes away a lot of classes (only the fighter, rogue, and barbarian remain) and then puts in a very overpowered casting class.
I have to look back at the book (it is next to my computer at home) but I swear that caster class was an NPC class not for the players. Thus it was overpowered because it was meant to be awsome sauce.

But New Argonauts is one of the greatest suckiest suppliments ever written. The suck is epic, and that is before the many mistakes and errors with the whole concept itself. Then again, considering what it was attempting to do, it's not that bad. To really neref D&D to the brone age is almost practically impossible. Other attempts were the original (and 2E) attempts at Nehwon, which FUBARED spell casting completely. (Casting segments became rounds, rounds became turns... and a whole lot more.)

I think that's Sean's biggest problem. He's a "stream of thought" developer. And everyone knows ones first ideas are always the WORST EVER. He never refines or considers the implications of anything, he just tosses hout half baked ideas without any consideration of the implications.

He designs things like Dr Evil (Sharks with frigging lasers on their heads).
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Post by fectin »

Koumei wrote:fectin: I totally mentioned the healing. And it's possible the actual FRCS book first introduced Spellfire.

I dunno, I mysteriously lost all my D&D books when my old laptop died.
I should really read all the words, not just most of them.
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Post by hogarth »

tzor wrote:
I think that's Sean's biggest problem. He's a "stream of thought" developer. And everyone knows ones first ideas are always the WORST EVER. He never refines or considers the implications of anything, he just tosses hout half baked ideas without any consideration of the implications.
Pretty much. I think the (Pathfinder) Adventurer's Armory is a testament to that nature. Dozens of new exotic weapons, some of which are just useless (i.e. not worth a feat), some of which are worse than useless (e.g. a garotte that's harder to use and less deadly than hogtieing an opponent with a regular rope), and some of which are better than average although SKR refuses to acknowledge it (e.g. a 19-20/x3 critical weapon).
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Post by CapnTthePirateG »

Doesn't the 3.5 DMG say specifically not to make those 19-20/x3 weapons?
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Post by RobbyPants »

Pathfinder's probably not compatible with that part of 3.5. :p
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Post by Finkin »

tzor wrote:
I think that's Sean's biggest problem. He's a "stream of thought" developer. And everyone knows ones first ideas are always the WORST EVER. He never refines or considers the implications of anything, he just tosses hout half baked ideas without any consideration of the implications.

He designs things like Dr Evil (Sharks with frigging lasers on their heads).
Yeah, he's far too busy fapping to his own "greatness" to bother with self-editing or tweaking.
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Post by Psychic Robot »

fuck if you're going to drop a feat to wield a weapon, it should probably be pretty powerful
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Post by RadiantPhoenix »

Considering that you could just take a feat to improve part of the critical range or multiplier or something and then use a normal weapon, I don't actually see the problem with an exotic 19-20/x3 weapon, except for the possibility of using it without taking the feat.
Last edited by RadiantPhoenix on Fri May 27, 2011 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DragonChild »

RadiantPhoenix wrote:Considering that you could just take a feat to improve part of the critical range or multiplier or something and then use a normal weapon, I don't actually see the problem with an exotic 19-20/x3 weapon, except for the possibility of using it without taking the feat.
The problem is that it then stacks better with keen than a normal weapon. Now, I think the bastard sword is too weak, but 19-20/x3 is equivalent to 17-20/x2, and is likely just a little too good. I think it basically becomes a must-buy for a 2h character, just because that's an extra +10% damage over a falchion if it's keen (or you have improved crit).
Last edited by DragonChild on Fri May 27, 2011 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by hogarth »

Psychic Robot wrote:fuck if you're going to drop a feat to wield a weapon, it should probably be pretty powerful
Possibly, but you shouldn't have 100 shitty weapons and 1 reasonable weapon and then claim the 100 shitty weapons are just as good.
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Post by MfA »

That's Pathfinder all over though ... a million trap options, and a couple of good options Paizoites pretend aren't actually better.
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Post by rasmuswagner »

I just read something in Ultimate Magic:
Burning Hands: This is the benchmark for 1st-level area
attack spells. It is even better than sleep because it can
affect up to six squares (sleep only affects 4 Hit Dice, which
means up to 4 creatures) and affects mindless creatures
and undead.
Magic Missile: Perhaps the best 1st-level spell in the game,
magic missile may not do a lot of damage, but it requires no
attack roll, has a medium range, needs no saving throw,
and harms incorporeal creatures. Even if magic missile were
2nd-level, smart casters would still learn it.
Completely disregarding the fact that the main use of Burning Hands is to improve the gene pool (stupid casters get themselves killed with that spell), this is just a sterling example of how these writers don't understand fuck-all about how their game actually works.

And....
Fireball: This is the definitive low-level area attack spell.
Gaining this spell changes the paradigm of the game,
allowing spellcasters to deal a large amount of damage to
multiple targets anywhere they can see.
Fly: This is the most important movement spell, usable
in combat to great effect and allowing easy maneuverability
around the battlefield.
One of these 3rd level spells changes the paradigm of combat. I'll give you a hint: It doesn't do lame damage with a save for half.
Stinking Cloud: Capable of neutralizing many foes at
a good range, stinking cloud is the best multiple-target
nonlethal spell of its level.
....yeah, Stinking Cloud is only a good spell as far as non-lethal spells go.
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Post by Fuchs »

God... I wonder how they play.
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Post by fectin »

Hard Mode.

Seriously, it's not like the game breaks down or anything; pessimized characters just have a harder time with it.
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Post by Swordslinger »

MfA wrote:That's Pathfinder all over though ... a million trap options, and a couple of good options Paizoites pretend aren't actually better.
That defines anything 3E related.
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Post by Darth Rabbitt »

Swordslinger wrote:
MfA wrote:That's Pathfinder all over though ... a million trap options, and a couple of good options Paizoites pretend aren't actually better.
That defines anything D&D related.
Fixed.
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Post by RadiantPhoenix »

OD&D probably didn't have a million options period, which would make it an exception to that 'rule'.
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Post by TOZ »

More SKR monk-hate.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:

I knew Irori, I worked with Irori, and you, sir, Mr. 20-Point Point Buy, are no Irori....
Why is the concept deserving of mockery?
I'm not mocking you, I'm pointing back at an old joke.

My point is: if it were easy for a gearless monk to become a god, we'd have more than one god in the Paizo campaign world who managed to do it.

Irori wasn't a standard array character.
He wasn't a 15-point-buy character.
He wasn't a 20-point-buy character.
He's the extremely lucky character who rolls really, really well, perhaps 3 or more 18s, with no "dump stats." He is the one-in-a-billion exception.

He is not the standard that all gearless monks should expect to play like.
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magnuskn wrote: I just "love" how "Could we get a decent concept for playing a gear-less character, who can keep up with the rest of the group?" has been twisted around into "Oh, so you want to become a god!". Geeze.
I'm not the one who said, "A gearless monk should be a viable character concept at all levels, after all, Irori did it...." :)
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Post by Psychic Robot »

Not everything Pathfinder does is terrible. In fact, they have some nifty ideas. (The main problem is translating those ideas into mechanics.) Let's take the witch, for instance.
Child-Scent (Ex): The witch gains the scent ability, but only with respect to humanoid children and immature animals. Thus, she could sniff out a child’s hiding place or a den of wolf pups, but not the child’s parents or the den mother. Source: Ultimate Magic

Nails (Ex): The witch’s nails are long and sharp, and count as natural weapons that deal 1d3 points of damage (1d2 for a Small witch). These attacks are secondary attacks. If trimmed, the witch’s nails regrow to their normal size in 1d4 days. Source: Ultimate Magic

Poison Steep (Sp): The witch can use her cauldron to brew a foul toxin in which she can steep fruits and other delicious edibles, transforming them so that when eaten, they have the same effect as a poison spell. Brewing the toxin and then steeping the food takes 1 hour in total; steeping can affect up to 1 pound of food. The food is poisoned for 24 hours, and the poison cannot be transferred to other objects. The food tastes normal, but magic detects it as poisonous. The witch must have the cauldron hex to select this hex. Source: Ultimate Magic

Prehensile Hair (Su): The witch can instantly cause her hair (or even her eyebrows) to grow up to 10 feet long or to shrink to its normal length, and can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb with a Strength score equal to her Intelligence score. Her hair has reach 10 feet, and she can use it as a secondary natural attack that deals 1d3 points of damage (1d2 for a Small witch). Her hair can manipulate objects (but not weapons) as dexterously as a human hand. The hair cannot be sundered or attacked as a separate creature. Pieces cut from the witch’s elongated hair shrink away to nothing. Using her hair does not harm the witch’s head or neck, even if she lifts something heavy with it. The witch can manipulate her hair a number of minutes each day equal to her level; these minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. A typical male witch with this hex can also manipulate his beard, moustache, or eyebrows. Source: Ultimate Magic

Scar (Su): This hex curses a single target with horrible scars of the witch’s choosing, whether something as simple as a single letter on the target’s forehead or blotchy, burn-like scars on his body. The target may make a Will save to resist this hex. These scars do not hinder the target’s actions or abilities in any way. The witch can withdraw this hex from a target as a move action at any range. The number of supernatural scars the witch can maintain at once is equal to her Intelligence bonus; once she reaches this limit, she must remove the scar from a current victim in order to mark another. Effects that remove curses can remove the scar. Source: Ultimate Magic

Unnerve Beasts (Su): The target becomes offensive to animals (Will negates). Animals become distraught and aggressive in the victim’s presence—horses buck, dogs snap and bark, bulls charge, and so on. The hex lasts a number of hours equal to the witch’s Intelligence modifier. A creature that saves against the hex cannot be affected by the hex for 1 day. The reaction of the animals is a mind-affecting charm effect, but the hex on the target is not. Source: Ultimate Magic

Cook People (Su): The witch can create fabulous spells by cooking an intelligent humanoid creature in her cauldron, either alive or dead. Using this hex creates one meal or serving of food of the witch’s choice, typically a delicious stew or a dough suitable for cookies, pastries, or other desserts. Cooking the victim takes 1 hour. Eating the food provides one of the following benefits for 1 hour: age resistance [UM], bear’s endurance, bull’s strength, cat’s grace, eagle’s splendor, fox’s cunning, neutralize poison (instantaneous), owl’s wisdom, remove disease (instantaneous). Alternatively, the witch can shape the dough into a Small, humanlike creature, animating it as a homunculus for 1 hour. The witch must have the cauldron hex to select this hex. Using this hex or knowingly eating its food is an evil act. Source: Ultimate Magic

Hidden Home (Sp): The witch can conceal or disguise her home and the area around it as if using mirage arcana. Before using the hex, she must spend 1 day pacing out the border of an area that measures roughly 40,000 square feet (approximately 200 feet by 200 feet) to define her home territory. Thereafter, she can use the hex to change the appearance of that area as a standard action as long as she is within the area. The illusion persists until the witch changes or dismisses it. For the purpose of this ability, a witch can only have one “home” at a time. Source: Ultimate Magic

Summon Spirit (Sp): The witch calls forth the ghost of a humanoid creature with no more than 18 Hit Dice. The ghost has its own personality and desires, but is willing to bargain with the witch, as if she had cast greater planar ally. To seal an agreement with the witch, the ghost requires life energy equal to 1 temporary negative level (this is in addition to the standard payment for the ghost’s service). This negative level persists as long as the ghost remains in the service of the witch; the witch can end the agreement as a standard action, immediately removing the negative level. Source: Ultimate Magic

Witch’s Hut (Su): The witch can animate a hut, small house, covered wagon, tent, or similar construction as an animated object. The hut can be of up to Huge size (approximately 15 feet by 15 feet). The animated hut’s hardness increases to 8 and its hit points double. The witch can give the hut the following commands: guard (the hut watches for trespassers within 120 feet using the witch’s Perception modifier and screams if it spots any), hide (all entrances are hidden by illusory wall spells and locked with arcane lock), and move (moves at speed 60 on giant bird or bone legs as directed by the witch, even obeying commands such as “follow me from 100 feet away”). The hut remains animate for 24 hours, until she dismisses it or she animates another, at which time the hut stops where it is and reverts to its nonmagical state. Source: Ultimate Magic
Whether or not those are mechanically powerful abilities, they're all very cool and witch-y.
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Post by K »

They made some powers based off of fairy tales related to witches. Children's fairy tales, mostly.

Not impressed.

PS. Child Scent should be renamed "Creepy as Fuck" Scent.
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