[SR 4] How do you Spell dilemma?

[Stahlseele]

Earth Elemental Great form Quake Power is in Force x Kilometers i think, so that would be reasonable . . And yes, this means with a Force 6 Great Form Earth Elemental, you can level entire megaplexes . .

[Captain_Karzak]

So my GM is still ruminating over how he might "adjust" direct and indirect combat spells.

I was thinking of influencing the process by suggesting my own change:

Increase the drain code of all direct combat spells by two and reduce the drain code on all indirect spells by two.

How would this rule change your spell selection? Is this a good change? Why or why not?

[Username17]

Spells that aren't Stun Bolt/Ball are pretty marginal. If direct spells cost a lot more drain, I just wouldn't use them. Lightning Bolt is a very niche spell that I almost never use, and lowering the drain wouldn't change that. I can already get unlimited functionally identical lightning bolts by summoning an Air Spirit. So I still probably wouldn't learn it, even if it was reasonable to cast it.

-Username17

[Captain_Karzak]

Spells that aren't Stun Bolt/Ball are pretty marginal. If direct spells cost a lot more drain, I just wouldn't use them. Lightning Bolt is a very niche spell that I almost never use, and lowering the drain wouldn't change that. I can already get unlimited functionally identical lightning bolts by summoning an Air Spirit. So I still probably wouldn't learn it, even if it was reasonable to cast it.

-Username17

hmmm. I hope my GM comes round to your point of view regarding direct combat spells. My understanding is that Stunball represented the group's "I Win" button in the last campaign (I wasn't there for it).

But anyway, I wanted to ask you about AoE indirect combat spells.

The way I see it, the real advantage of Indirect Combat spells is that when you cast one as an AoE, you can hit people you can't actually see.

So I agree with you that lightning bolt is not going to be an exciting spell no matter what you do to the drain code. But what about Ball lighting, or better yet, an AoE Sound or Smoke elemental spell? With their drain codes reduced from a soul-crushing F/2+5 to more moderate F/2+3, don't they become much more viable choices?

[Murtak]

Lightning Bolt (and indirect spells in general) are good because of their rider effects, not because they let you hit people standing next to a corner. Grenades do that just fine. But grenades don't make people twitch around helplessly and grenades don't let you kill people without killing their electronics. Conversely direct spells are good because they get around those nasty dodge and soak steps and because you can cast them through mirrors. And both types of spells suck because they don't let you shoot people through walls, because guns don't cause drain, because guns can fire in full auto mode and because guns don't require you to go easy on the cyberware.

Depending on the run, having manabolt or stunball or lightning bolt will be horrifyingly effective (getting to manabolt someone in mil-spec armor through a one-way mirror) or close to useless (only having stunball but the security is mostly drones). If your GM gives you runs where you regularly want to disable but not kill groups of goons who conveniently stand close to each other, yeah, stunball is going to be amazing.

[UmaroVI]

I would suggest the following fix:

Elemental spells that are NOT sound or smoke should go down to F/2 and F/2+2.

Elemental spells that are sound or smoke should be F/2+1 and F/2+3.

Punch/Clout/Blast should get -2 drain. Yes this makes them super cheap; a physical indirect stun spell against which full armor applies is pretty bad.

The Stun spells should get +2 drain.

[UmaroVI]

To explain Elemental:

Sound and Smoke are good for the secondary effects (Sound in particular, bypassing armor and then nauseating).

Everything else is good only because they do P-damage against half armor and don't take OR. Right now they are for blowing up drones only.