Pathfinder Is Still Bad

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:50 am

the paizo minis look amazing

if the minis have this quality in person, I am sold

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:07 am

The Black Dragon does look really good.

Is there anything in Ultimate Combat buffing archer types?

K · Post by K » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:14 am

The black dragon looks good, but since it's probably $30-40 it should look good.

The others are somewhere between "meh" and "not worth $4 for a random mini."

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:41 am

Silent Wayfarer wrote:The Black Dragon does look really good.

Is there anything in Ultimate Combat buffing archer types?

I noticed a pretty sweet teamwork feat. BaB 6, make a ranged attack as an immediate action when an ally with this feat hits a target.

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:54 am

It does give functionality to having a melee striker type.

Also, can you buy the big dragon model seperately?

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:18 am

K wrote: Ever hear of the Cold War? Its the thing where no one attacked each other because they could destroy each other easily and no one had defenses.

Well, it certainly seems that you only heard of Cold War, instead of actually knowing anything about it. Otherwise you would have easily found why the statement above is both wrong (MAD was reality only in the last 15 years of the Cold War, before that the only question was the acceptability of cost of USSR's inevitable defeat) and entirely inapplicable to DnD situation (there are no warning times ensuring a counterstrike in DnD).

However, the most important reason why Cold War analogy is not applicable to FR is wars in FR regularly getting really fucking hot. Case in point: Zhentil Keep was in fact razed. Twice. And Zhents tried to directly go and murder Elminster and take over his homeland. At least twice. Some nobodies managed to gank Sammaster, who is even more powerful than Manshoon and scatter Cult of the Dragon late in 3.5 metaplot. Nations with even greater roster of high-level characters than Zhentarim, like Cormyr and Amn, suffered massive invasions.

So, this argument is retarded as well. But as you've seriously used examples from ELH... you clearly aren't interested in a rational discussion anyway. So, whatever. I'm not going to feed you anymore.

K · Post by K » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:39 am

FatR wrote:
K wrote: Ever hear of the Cold War? Its the thing where no one attacked each other because they could destroy each other easily and no one had defenses.
Well, it certainly seems that you only heard of Cold War, instead of actually knowing anything about it. Otherwise you would have easily found why the statement above is both wrong (MAD was reality only in the last 15 years of the Cold War, before that the only question was the acceptability of cost of USSR's inevitable defeat) and entirely inapplicable to DnD situation (there are no warning times ensuring a counterstrike in DnD).

However, the most important reason why Cold War analogy is not applicable to FR is wars in FR regularly getting really fucking hot. Case in point: Zhentil Keep was in fact razed. Twice. And Zhents tried to directly go and murder Elminster and take over his homeland. At least twice. Some nobodies managed to gank Sammaster, who is even more powerful than Manshoon and scatter Cult of the Dragon late in 3.5 metaplot. Nations with even greater roster of high-level characters than Zhentarim, like Cormyr and Amn, suffered massive invasions.

So, this argument is retarded as well. But as you've seriously used examples from ELH... you clearly aren't interested in a rational discussion anyway. So, whatever. I'm not going to feed you anymore.

Apparently, you forgot the various proxy wars of the Cold War and events like the Cuban Missile Crisis. I suggest some time on Wikipedia so you look less stupid in public.

But, if you can't handle the fact that FR uses the Epic Level Handbook explicitly or the limitations of argument by analogy and need to both necro an old argument and thread derail over the fictional universe of Forgotten Realms, maybe you should get away from the computer for a bit and go outside or something because you clearly have an unhealthy emotional investment in your fantasy life.

Krusk · Post by **Krusk** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:28 pm

FatR wrote: (there are no warning times ensuring a counterstrike in DnD).

What? The fact that these exist is one of the core principles of why high level wizards are good/good antagonists.

A Man In Black · Post by **A Man In Black** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:05 pm

Krusk wrote:FR shit

Here's a thread for it.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:01 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:the paizo minis look amazing

if the minis have this quality in person, I am sold

Are you being serious? The characters look like crap. The dragon looks okay, but still not great.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:08 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:the paizo minis look amazing

Actually, they look mediocre. They probably would barely get a 5 score on Cool Mini or Not. The paint jobs are good but mind numbingly boring; it really does show up when they have the orange hair/beard.

And $30-$40 for the black dragon? I'd be reluctant to pay $15 for that mini. When we start talking about the $40 range I'd rather go to the painted by someone else market on ebay. Here is a real black dragon (albeit with rider) that is on sale on ebay for around $42.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:10 pm

It looks like they molded the Gnome's head out of orange plastic then painted on the face. Which makes it look weird.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:13 pm

See how there's no shading inside any of the colors? I think that means it's straight up printed that way; i.e. no paint used.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:52 pm

Are you being serious? The characters look like crap.

I like them but I've never seen particularly good quality prepainted minis before

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:58 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:
Are you being serious? The characters look like crap.
I like them but I've never seen particularly good quality prepainted minis before

I can basically guarantee "real" minis don't look like that. They use minis that their best artists paint by hand for the promotions, and then the real minis are factory line stuff where you're lucky if the black dot is on the mouth instead of giving half of the minis a hitler mustache.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:12 pm

yeah that's my fear, hence my statement

if the minis have this quality in person, I am sold

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:18 am

I don't mind of the pre-painting job is kinda crappy usually so long as the mold is okay. I found that many minis looked good on the promos but when I got it in my hands they sometimes were not molded very well, and I couldn't do much about that. This was mostly an issue only with the very early plastic WotC models (Harbinger, Dragoneye, maybe Archfiends... memory a little hazy) though.

I'm too lazy/busy to paint a mini from scratch, and have a sad bunch of pewter minis that I want to paint but never get around to; however, adding my own shading or details is something I could find the time for. I made a habit of de-drowing many of my elves from WotC's minis line, fixed a bunch of retardedly painted faces (eye dots on cheeks and the like), and gave my T-rex tiger striping. So having most of the basic work done is usually okay by me.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:53 am

@erik That plastic always seemed a bit soft to me; I was worried about it flexing and the paint flaking off. Has that been a problem for you?

K · Post by K » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:18 am

fectin wrote:@erik That plastic always seemed a bit soft to me; I was worried about it flexing and the paint flaking off. Has that been a problem for you?

I've repainted a few of WotC's "peasants with scythes" into "undead with scythes" and haven't had any problems with flaking and I keep my WotC mini's in a oatmeal cylinder.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:39 pm

http://www.ennie-awards.com/blog/wp-con ... inners.pdf

Looks like Pathfinder outdid D&D at the Ennie awards too.

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:25 pm

Fuchs wrote:http://www.ennie-awards.com/blog/wp-con ... inners.pdf

Looks like Pathfinder outdid D&D at the Ennie awards too.

The Ennies have never been relevant. One of the judges up for nomination this year (who didn't get in) has an easily-researched history of helping people steal the work of others, make money off of it, and then threaten lawsuits. Why should we take that seriously? Plus, APG won ANYTHING, and that book is a shitty, shitty laughingstock.

Previn · Post by **Previn** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:04 am

DragonChild wrote:
Fuchs wrote:http://www.ennie-awards.com/blog/wp-con ... inners.pdf

Looks like Pathfinder outdid D&D at the Ennie awards too.
The Ennies have never been relevant. One of the judges up for nomination this year (who didn't get in) has an easily-researched history of helping people steal the work of others, make money off of it, and then threaten lawsuits. Why should we take that seriously? Plus, APG won ANYTHING, and that book is a shitty, shitty laughingstock.

They're a popularity contest to be sure, but the point that D&D was basically not represented in that popularity contest is a giant red flag about exactly how 4e is doing.

CapnTthePirateG · Post by **CapnTthePirateG** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:13 am

Also, ENworld is the greatest holdout of the 4e fanboys.

Even on the WoTC site, people are clamoring against 4e.

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:46 am

fectin wrote:@erik That plastic always seemed a bit soft to me; I was worried about it flexing and the paint flaking off. Has that been a problem for you?

Nope. Never happened so far. On the other hand my metal minis have chipped on occasion since they bump into things harder than the plastic guys.

[edit: and I should add that my packaging is no more forgiving than K's. I usually pack them into containers with little regard for anything beyond how many I can squish in there.]
[edit 2: er, that only goes for the plastic minis. The metal ones I take all sorts of care and precautions for and they still chip. I think there's stuff I could spray on em to help fix em a bit better, but go back to start of my posts and see--> Erik=lazy]

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:05 am

Even on the WoTC site, people are clamoring against 4e.

it's quite delightful isn't it, the crumbling of their empire