[D&D 3.5/Tome] A foundation for an idea

[Archmage Joda]

While reading some of the spells known by the Summoner tome class, I began having an idea for this, but would prefer to refine the soundness of the initial concept before bringing something more concrete over to the homebrew forum.

While reading the Conjure Ice Beast line of spells from Frostburn, I was thinking of the idea of, instead of merely conjuring a beast, you form it around yourself and use it as something of fantasy power armor.

My conundrum though, is should I write this idea up as a feat, or a spell, and while I am still working on what the actual benefit would be, I figure it'd probably be easier to work that out once I know whether I'm going for "feat" or "spell".

Or, y'all could just call me a dumbass, that's fine too, as long as there's some reason for it.

[Prak]

I've often had this idea for the Astral Construct power. Honestly, I think it'd be fine as just an alternate option, no resource expenditure needed. It'd be pretty cool as a fully fleshed out concept for a PrC, though.

[Dean]

I have often considered that the two reasonably balanced ways to do summon powers would be

#1 Summon a somewhat lower level than you creature that you maintain every round with a swift action. Meaning you get a little lackey creature but you can't get 12

or #2 Final Fantasy style you disappear and a big beastie appears in your place. It has the stats of a different creature listed in the spell and that is now YOUR STAT BLOCK FULL STOP. You can revert to old you at any time or perhaps do so at the time of that creatures death. This seems to be more the style you are thinking of to which I confer onto you my full support

[Prak]

Complete Pshit has a feat that fuses you with your astral construct that I've just seen, which, if it were any good, could become a model for this idea. The problem is that it, like pretty much everything else in Cpsi, if not everything else psionic, is that it's pretty much shit.

So:

Combat Option: Subsume Summon/Construct
Prerequisite: The ability to summon a creature through magic or psionics, such as Summon Monster, Astral Construct, etc.
Benefit: When you would otherwise summon (or create) a creature your size or larger, you may instead draw the magic around you, rather than apart from you. In so doing, you replace any natural or manufactured armour or weapons you are using, movement modes and racial abilities that target another creature (so not abilities which only affect yourself, such as Damage Reduction, Fast Healing, or the like), with those of the summoned or created creature. You gain a bonus (or penalty) on your physical ability scores equal to Score-10 (round down), bonus hp equal to one half the summon/construct's total hp. Armour and attacks granted by this are considered magical. Finally, your casting or manifesting ability is hindered by this act, temporarily reducing your Casting/Manifesting ability by two levels (so, for example, a third level wizard which subsumes a large monstrous centipede is effectively a first level caster while using this option). As far as actions go, you may take only your normal limit of standard and move actions, but gain the subsumed summon/constructs uses of free, swift, immediate, etc. actions.
Any abilities you possess which modify your ability to summon or construct the creature still function, conferring their bonus to you as appropriate (so Augment Summoning grants you +4 str and con when you Subsume Summons).
Subsuming causes your power/spell to last twice as long as usual.
---------------------------------------
If I left out any considerations, or anything's weird or unclear, let me know.

Edit: I also think Paladins should be able to do something similar as well, as their mount is a summon, not a perpetual companion, but then it's just an alternate class feature that essentially lets them dumpster dive for monsters and DM-fellate for allowance.

[Archmage Joda]

Yeah, I knew about that feat, but pretty much disregarded it for basically the reason you outlined before.

As for that Combat Option, it sounds quite interesting. My initial thoughts were that the limits it'd impose on spellcasting would be to restrict to personal and touch spells, rather than reducing one's casting ability, but then, I hadn't actually thought of the latter in the first place.

[Prak]

Basically I figure that dropping to cohort casting is a fair trade off for gaining a more combat apt form.

[Maxus]

Basically I figure that dropping to cohort casting is a fair trade off for gaining a more combat apt form.

That's a pretty nifty feat. I think I see a use for it soon.

Edit: What does it do for BAB and skills and the like?

[RelentlessImp]

Complete Pshit has a feat that fuses you with your astral construct that I've just seen, which, if it were any good, could become a model for this idea. The problem is that it, like pretty much everything else in Cpsi, if not everything else psionic, is that it's pretty much shit.

Mindscapes - A Psion's Guide by Malhavoc Press had an entire PrC in the vein of this idea, the Astral Zealot. Later levels let them fuse their ectopic suits with Menu abilities for Astral Constructs, granting effectively free shit like flight or bonus HP. With some expanding on it, it might even be a decent Prestige Class, but as it stands it gets an interesting take on mirror image and some abilities that are just flavor, not power.

The feat definitely works better, though.

[Prak]

Basically I figure that dropping to cohort casting is a fair trade off for gaining a more combat apt form.

That's a pretty nifty feat. I think I see a use for it soon.

Edit: What does it do for BAB and skills and the like?

I didn't even intend it as a feat, just an option, like Power Attack in Tome.

Skills probably aren't changed, though you should get racial bonuses of the form, BAB should probably become what ever it would be for the creature if it had your HD (if you subsume a summoned Outsider, you get full, if you subsume a summoned Undead, it doesn't change, etc.)

[Maxus]

Whoops on the feat/option.

Anyways, thanks. I thought it might be the case--that or getting the creature's BAB directly--but cool.

[Prak]

Let me know how it works out, it was just stream of thought, no playtesting, or anything. I'm going to try to test it myself but my friends suck.

[Maxus]

Let me know how it works out, it was just stream of thought, no playtesting, or anything. I'm going to try to test it myself but my friends suck.

I thought it was a feat and it might be best at that, given it lets a summoner turn himself into a bruiser. Or...well...get the freaky spell-likes and supernatural abilities some monsters have.

[Prak]

yeah, I'll probably try to get it through my tome-hating friends as a feat and see if I feel it's worth it.

[...You Lost Me]

DUDE! D&D Gundam...

[Maxus]

DUDE! D&D Gundam...

If you summoned a Marut...

[Seerow]

This actually sounds to me like a refluffed polymorph than anything else.

[Prak]

I suppose essentially it is.

[Archmage Joda]

Well, my original idea was inspired by the Conjure Ice Beast/Summon Ice Beast spell on the tome Summoner's list, so perhaps if I made it a Summoner Feat. Something like this, perhaps:

Summoner's Ice Armor

Prerequisite: Summoner Level 3

While conjuring up minions is all well and good, sometimes the summoner would be behooved to enter the fray themselves, especially if there's no room for their summon of choice to take the field (after all, it's not really practical to try to use a colossal spider in the middle of a hallway, no matter how good it is at grappling).

Benefit: When a summoner with this feat casts a Summon Ice beast spell, they may choose to forgo a normal summons in order to form a mobile suit of ice armor around themselves reminiscent of the creature they would've summoned. The summoner's size category increases by 1 for every 2 categories larger than them their summon would be, and they gain an untyped bonus to physical attributes equal to the original summon's (Attribute - 10) in those attributes.


This is admittedly still very prototype, but I should contribute at least some work to my own idea thread. I am undecided whether or not to grant spell like abilities to the armor as well, but my initial thought was to grant the at-wills, but no other SLAs.