[D&D 3.5] The Unconventional Wisdom of the Den
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- Duke
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- RobbyPants
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Well, the rakshasa has spells under Special Attacks. There's nothing in the rules that I can find that indicates whether "spells" is a single ability, or a collection of separate abilities. Ability Focus makes you pick them one at a time.CapnTthePirateG wrote:Is there any reason, ruleswise, a spellcaster could not take "Ability Focus: Spells" and get a +2 DC bonus to everything? I seem to see "spellcasting" or some variant under "special attack" about a zillion times...
By RAW, it seems you could at a minimum use AF to boost the DC of a single spell for sure, and you might be able to craft an argument that you can do this for all spells. In an actual game, I doubt the DM would let that fly.
RAI, I think not.RobbyPants wrote:Well, the rakshasa has spells under Special Attacks. There's nothing in the rules that I can find that indicates whether "spells" is a single ability, or a collection of separate abilities. Ability Focus makes you pick them one at a time.CapnTthePirateG wrote:Is there any reason, ruleswise, a spellcaster could not take "Ability Focus: Spells" and get a +2 DC bonus to everything? I seem to see "spellcasting" or some variant under "special attack" about a zillion times...
By RAW, it seems you could at a minimum use AF to boost the DC of a single spell for sure, and you might be able to craft an argument that you can do this for all spells. In an actual game, I doubt the DM would let that fly.
(apparently) there is some debate as to where spells fall in to the "special attack" thing. As a matter of fact, here's 17 pages of such a debate.
Yeah, you really gotta dig through that one to get to the relevant info you're looking for.
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yeah it was.
but there was, IMO, some good discussion hidden in between the asininity.
but there was, IMO, some good discussion hidden in between the asininity.
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"The most patriotic thing you can do as an American is to become filthy, filthy rich."
- Mark Cuban
"Game design has no obligation to cater to people who don’t buy into the premise of the game"
TGD -- skirting the edges of dickfinity since 2003.
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Well, Spell Focus exists, which improves DCs by 1 for a chosen school of magic, and then Gtr Spell Focus does so again. So I think Ability Focus just boosting all spells is... a bit more powerful than it should be (it'd be a better choice than SF at all times), but maybe not so powerful that you couldn't just say "Ok, Spell Focus is out, you can just take Ability Focus and increase all your spell DCs by 2"
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You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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The feats in the Monster Manuals aren't balanced or designed for players to take. They should have been, but they aren't.
Ability Focus applying to Spellcasting is a lot like gaining Spellcasting with polymorph.
Ability Focus applying to Spellcasting is a lot like gaining Spellcasting with polymorph.
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- NineInchNall
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Yes, it'd be another designer oversight. Sort of like, well, everything worth doing in D&D. *shrug*
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Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
Malformed singular possessives. It's almost always supposed to be 's.
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It's a useless distinction when you have spell-like, supernatural, and extraordinary abilities. Pretty much a 2e hold-over. Although spell casting isn't spell-like, supernatural, or extraordinary...CapnTthePirateG wrote:Also, it doesn't seem to define special attacks, and I think the term fell out of usage in later MMs
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
I have seen some stat blocks in later Monster Manuals that give certain creatures spellcasting as an extraordinary ability. 2 critters from MM5 off the top of my head, a Hobgoblin and a Kuo Toa. Not really relevant to this discussion, as most creatures with spellcasting do not have a tag on their casting ability (spell-like and supernatural effects excepted).
I think that, technically, every class feature is supposed to be either Ex, Sp, or Su. It's just that there are a few abilities that for some reason don't have a tag, like sneak attack, and as a result they're presumed to be Ex. I've heard it argued that Spellcasting is an (Ex) ability, but I also don't think it's legal to polymorph into, say, "a 20th-level human wizard," so that doesn't really help you much.
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shadzar wrote:i think the apostrophe is an outdated idea such as is hyphenation.
The monster tags for abilities are all messed up. I mean, there are Sp, Ex, Su, then "natural" ones that are listed as abilities that have no tags, class abilities, and then abilities that are listed in the flavor text (like how Aboleth can absorb memories). That's before you start tagging things as special attacks or defenses.
Basically, the whole way monsters are done needs a full revision.
Basically, the whole way monsters are done needs a full revision.
Last edited by K on Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
- CatharzGodfoot
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I've got to bring up the psionics thing just one more time:
An actual power from CPsi wrote:SLOW BREATHING
Psychometabolism
Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level
Power Points: 1
You concentrate, and your shin radiates a healthy, rosy glow.
You reduce the need for oxygen in your body, increasing your ability to become acclimated to the thin air of high altitudes. You gain a +4 competence bonus on saving throws against altitude sickness (DMG 90).
Augment: If you spend 4 additional power points, you become immune to altitude sickness.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
There is nothing that says an ability has to be Ex, Su or Sp. It could be none of the above (Ordinary abilities: they take the Extra out of Extraordinary!) You could argue that "Spells" is a separate type as well, based on things like the chart that shows which of Spell/Sp/Su/Ex provoke, need components, work in an AMF etc.
I believe "Everything has to be one of those three, it couldn't possibly be otherwise!" is one of the (many) assumptions behind the old Pun-Pun routine.
I believe "Everything has to be one of those three, it couldn't possibly be otherwise!" is one of the (many) assumptions behind the old Pun-Pun routine.
Well fucking get writing then! :3cK wrote: Basically, the whole way monsters are done needs a full revision.
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Actually, it's only slightly less useful than Wild Talent is for a psionic character, as it results in a net 1 pp instead of 2.
But that makes sense, they didn't really do "flavour abilities" in WotC books the way we do them here. Though they could have said "A 3rd level Elan does not eat or drink, sustaining themselves on ambient psychic energy" or just given it to them from the start.
But that makes sense, they didn't really do "flavour abilities" in WotC books the way we do them here. Though they could have said "A 3rd level Elan does not eat or drink, sustaining themselves on ambient psychic energy" or just given it to them from the start.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
WotC design, contrary to Den wisdom, seems to be "if you get an ability other people don't have, no matter how likely it is to have a significant effect over the course of the game, you have to pay something for it."Prak_Anima wrote:But that makes sense, they didn't really do "flavour abilities" in WotC books the way we do them here.
Den wisdom rightly notes that an ability like "Fire Resist 5" or "you don't need to eat" doesn't actually make your character significantly more powerful and suggests giving away such abilities more or less for free as part of racial or class packages in addition to real class abilities.
P.C. Hodgell wrote:That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
shadzar wrote:i think the apostrophe is an outdated idea such as is hyphenation.
- NineInchNall
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No, everything is either one of those three or a Natural Ability, as stated in the SRD.Koumei wrote:There is nothing that says an ability has to be Ex, Su or Sp. It could be none of the above (Ordinary abilities: they take the Extra out of Extraordinary!) You could argue that "Spells" is a separate type as well, based on things like the chart that shows which of Spell/Sp/Su/Ex provoke, need components, work in an AMF etc.
I believe "Everything has to be one of those three, it couldn't possibly be otherwise!" is one of the (many) assumptions behind the old Pun-Pun routine.
Ability Focus specifies only a "special attack", though.
Special Attacks versus Special Qualities is still a useful distinction due almost solely to the shapechanging rules.Catharz wrote:It's a useless distinction when you have spell-like, supernatural, and extraordinary abilities. Pretty much a 2e hold-over. Although spell casting isn't spell-like, supernatural, or extraordinary...
Current pet peeves:
Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
Malformed singular possessives. It's almost always supposed to be 's.
Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
Malformed singular possessives. It's almost always supposed to be 's.
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Or would be if shapechanging rules weren't so fucking awful...NineInchNall wrote:Special Attacks versus Special Qualities is still a useful distinction due almost solely to the shapechanging rules.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
Changing the shapechanging rules to not be awful means you need to change the monster rules to not be awful. I mean, 3e monsters are still made like 2e monsters where someone randomly assigns all the stats and the makes up new powers and then eyeballs the overall power level.CatharzGodfoot wrote:Or would be if shapechanging rules weren't so fucking awful...NineInchNall wrote:Special Attacks versus Special Qualities is still a useful distinction due almost solely to the shapechanging rules.
That's a recipe for failure.