I think Wizards just added more to the [Awesome] Tag...

[tzor]

1187983483[/unixtime]]Does this mean that Dungeons are getting actions too?

Well actualy, at the Secrets of D&D session those guys were like going out of their way to mention how cool combat would be when you have the swinging bridges, etc. so I would not be surprised if the dungeon gets initative as well.

In 4E the darkness attacks you!

[Catharz]

On the bright side, they also apparently sped things up hugely as far as Great Wyrms are concerned. I didn't see that dragon cast a single one of its 9th-level spells, which indicates that maybe they've dumped draconic innate spellcasting.

Even if they add an extra action for the dragon every round, that's a significant reduction of time spent setting up and running high-CR dragon encounters. And when you set the dragon up as a 1 vs. Party sort of creature, the extra time is still less than running 3-4 creatures at the same time.


That said, I wouldn't set ancient red dragons up that way, simply from a flavor perspective. Breath weapon makes sense to me, constant heat aura makes sense to me, but Diablo's fire nova seems too magical.

[Voss]

1187942296[/unixtime]]The other intresting thing is that means that the warrior can do atleast 250 damage in one hit.

Two observations with that: Either hitpoints are much higher than before or fighter damage output is insane.

Save or die spells just got even better than evocation.

They finally got around to clarifying that. It was a later round of combat, and the fighter didn't do absurd amounts of damage.

I have to say, whatever else they're doing, they're doing a pretty good job of working up interest in 4E. Even when they're pissing people off, they're getting attention. The question is if they can keep it up for 9 months.

They do need to handle details better. The new design article has a bit about what classes are in (or not), but some of the details are very fuzzy- in particular if certain classes are going to be in the PHB or if they were using test versions that they're tossing out.

The entertainment value of folks having OMGWTF-freaking out moments is pretty high, though.

[Username17]

I have to say, whatever else they're doing, they're doing a pretty good job of working up interest in 4E.

Oh heck yeah.

Consider that after the "coasting" that 3.5 D&D has been doing since they printed it, I had pretty much expected 4E to be the rantings of Al-Hazrad the Mad Prophet in a three volume set.

Now it looks like it's going to be the drafted works of a collection of washed out level designers for Blizzard. That's an improvement over where I thought they were going with this, so I'll give it a much more thorough look over before I toss it completely and just do homebrew.

-Username17

[NineInchNall]

1187984811[/unixtime]]
In 4E the darkness attacks you!

In communist D&D, darkness casts magic missile at you!

[/Yakov Smirnov]

[Cielingcat]

1187992681[/unixtime]]Consider that after the "coasting" that 3.5 D&D has been doing since they printed it, I had pretty much expected 4E to be the rantings of Al-Hazrad the Mad Prophet in a three volume set.

I'd totally buy that sooner than I'd buy 4e.


Oh, and I also agree with Lago completely. I get enough of retarded fetishes on the internet; when I read about them in my D&D books, I want them to be actual mythical stuff like the crazy half-man half-monster shit that the Greeks liked so much.

I mean really, does anyone actually use dragons? If you go and look on the WotC boards, you'll see that the answer is actually no. The retarded dragon-fetishists go right out and tell you that you can NEVER USE A DRAGON UNLESS IT AUTO-WINS THE GAME AND RAPES (literally) THE PCS. They'll probably even use the cruise control for you.

As an aside, Count, why do you know that?

[cthulhu]

1187991882[/unixtime]]

1187942296[/unixtime]]The other intresting thing is that means that the warrior can do atleast 250 damage in one hit.

Two observations with that: Either hitpoints are much higher than before or fighter damage output is insane.

Save or die spells just got even better than evocation.

They finally got around to clarifying that. It was a later round of combat, and the fighter didn't do absurd amounts of damage.

That makes me very sad. Fighter should be doing insane amounts of damage damn it

[Voss]

Well, it could be insane... but not the 500 or so points implied if it was the first round of combat. However, I'm sure by the first year or two of expansion books there will be enough loopholes to pull it off if you do it right.

[Koumei]

1187991460[/unixtime]]On the bright side, they also apparently sped things up hugely as far as Great Wyrms are concerned. I didn't see that dragon cast a single one of its 9th-level spells, which indicates that maybe they've dumped draconic innate spellcasting.

Well, it was only an Ancient. In 3E, Ancient Reds only have 7th level spells, as a CR 23 (or 25-26, depending on whether we believe that little number or not). Which means their opponents have 10th-11th level spells if they want, or Epic crap. By the time they have 9th level spells, no-one actually cares. The best they can do is cover themselves in buffs before the fight, or do the same kinds of idiocy as players - Balor Mining, Chain-Binding and all of that.

Also, Ceilingcat, I use dragons. Ok, I've taken to using templated Wyverns, but sometimes I seriously use a dragon. I just pay attention to the [Awesome] subtype, generally play it like a big angry monster, and everyone has a ball because they're killing a fucking DRAGON! Which is the kind of shit people love to do.

Incidentally, as a side-note, someone mentioned Kobolds. Now, I don't care either way about the little bastards, but does anyone remember a time that they were actually doglike things, resembling the dire weasels they rode around on more than the dragons they apparently descended from? Or am I confusing D&D with random anime and video games again?

[Captain_Bleach]

1187940136[/unixtime]]

4th Edition dragons are among the most dynamic, exciting monsters in the game—as they should be. They’re different from each other, across categories (the metallics aren’t like the chromatics), across colors (reds and whites don’t have all the same attacks), and across age categories (fear the ancient dragons). Here’s just a taste of what a fight against an ancient dragon might feel like:

• 
  
• On the dragon’s turn, the first thing it does is burst out in an inferno of flame, searing every PC within 25 feet—a free action. Then, with a standard action, it slashes out at the fighter and the cleric with its two front claws (even though they’re both 20 feet away). As another free action, it uses its tail to slap the rogue, who was trying to sneak up behind it, and pushes her back 10 feet. It’s getting angry at the wizard, so it uses a special ability to take another standard action: it spits a ball of fire at the wizard, setting him on fire. It has a move action left, which it uses to fly into a better position for its breath weapon. That ends the dragon’s turn.
  
  
  
• It’s the fighter’s turn. He charges the dragon and manages to land a solid blow, dropping the dragon down below half its hit points. Oh—that gives the dragon the opportunity use its breath weapon as an immediate action. A huge cone of fire bursts from the dragon’s mouth, engulfing all four PCs. But at least the dragon is below 500 hit points!
  
  
  
• Now the rogue moves around to flank with the fighter. Ordinarily, that would let the dragon use its tail slap again as an immediate action, but the dragon has used its immediate action already. That’s lucky for the rogue, who actually gets to make an attack this round! Unfortunately, she fails to hit the dragon’s AC of 49.
  
  
  
• The wizard fails to put out the fire, so he takes more damage. Worse yet, the dragon’s breath scoured away the wizard’s fire resistance, so he takes the full amount. He blasts the dragon with a ray of freezing cold, but this isn’t 3rd Edition. The dragon takes normal damage, but it’s not enough to slow it down.
  
  
  
• Finally, the cleric is up. Calling on the power of her god, she swings her halberd at the dragon—a critical hit! The damage isn’t bad, but even better, the wizard gets a nice surge of healing power.
  

He’s going to need it—it’s the dragon’s turn again.

Did they just make dragons even better? Or is just hot air.

I'll reserve my judgment until I see how kick-ass the character classes and non-dragon monsters are compared to the dragons.

[Lago_AM3P]

I was the one who mentioned kobolds.

You can read about my vast, seething hatred of kobolds here.

http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewth ... [br][br]Of course, by this post, I've come to hate dragons even more. YMMV.

[josephbt]

in 14 years of gameplay, i actually fought 3 dragons. one got its ass whooped, the other 2 tpkd. i have no want for dragons.

[Koumei]

Ah, I understand completely. I know someone who loves to play as them, not for the draconic thing (she ignores that completely), but just... I don't even know. I think it was just one good occasion flavoured her view of them completely. Which I completely understand.

But I also know the kind of fanboys they get, ala elves and goddamn warforged. I hate those bastards the most.

Anyway, the fanboys of just about anything are at least a dozen times more annoying than the things themselves. I'm just trying to remember if kobolds ever were doglike in D&D. Because a character who kicks puppies in the name of Good would be pretty awesome.

Edit: Wiki to the rescue. Yep, they were originally doglike, hence the yapping speech. I read it on Wikipedia, it must be true.

[Cielingcat]

I miss the kobolds in BG I/II, when they were annoying yappy little things who you could trick out of a staff of getting an annoying talking sword.

[Prak]

1187972047[/unixtime]]

1187968367[/unixtime]]it's because they fundamentally don't understand how a pen-and-paper RPG works. And considering who they are, that's completely insane.

Completely believable, though.

and making me want to start my own gaming company more and more...

anyone with me? Frank? K? maybe we can buy the rights to D&D 3.xe...


also, since when the fuck are dragons known for bursting into flames?

[Bigode]

anyone with me? Frank? K? maybe we can buy the rights to D&D 3.xe...

Who cares about the rights? Do you know there's a SRD, right? And, if you are thinking seriously about starting something:

a) I'd like to hear about that;
b) there are companies looking for freelancers ...

[Voss]

1188027727[/unixtime]]
Edit: Wiki to the rescue. Yep, they were originally doglike, hence the yapping speech. I read it on Wikipedia, it must be true.

Peasant 'wisdom' aside, they were doggish once. Some folks have a real hard-on for them that way too, in the way that rabid fans do. Personally I don't care that much, though the doggish fits the giant pack mentality they have better than draconic does.

[Prak]

1188052082[/unixtime]]

anyone with me? Frank? K? maybe we can buy the rights to D&D 3.xe...

Who cares about the rights? Do you know there's a SRD, right? And, if you are thinking seriously about starting something:

a) I'd like to hear about that;
b) there are companies looking for freelancers ...

yes but how much do you want to bet Wizards is going to do away with it after fourth?

and yes, I am serious about this, I've been thinking about going into the RPG industry for a few years now, and now that WotC, who I wanted to work for, is switching to a new edition I'm not sure I'll like, I, more than ever, want to start my own company to continue to produce 3.5 stuff.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

1188002188[/unixtime]]
As an aside, Count, why do you know that?

Because I've browsed Doug Winger's VCL gallery on several occasions, why do you ask?

[Username17]

and yes, I am serious about this, I've been thinking about going into the RPG industry for a few years now, and now that WotC, who I wanted to work for, is switching to a new edition I'm not sure I'll like, I, more than ever, want to start my own company to continue to produce 3.5 stuff.

I'm sort of going the opposite direction. I have a lot of ideas for gaming settings and rules systems, but I don't really think I'll be able to do them all. I'm cutting myself down in the number of projects I participate in. Heck, I'm not hearing particularly encouraging sounds from the Unwired group, I might just pull out of for-pay RPG writing altogether.

Indeed, once Dead Man's Hand is up and playable, I may not write RPG material any more.

-Username17

[Prak]

that's a shame. You do really good work, what's the problem? not enough time? what?



also, are we ever gonna get more tome stuff?

[Koumei]

1188062101[/unixtime]]Personally I don't care that much, though the doggish fits the giant pack mentality they have better than draconic does.

Oh, I just want a good-aligned excuse to kick puppies. Besides, it detracts from the whole "Kobolds = Dragons! Yeah!" thing, so that can't be bad, right?

And Frank, you and K can't stop making Tome stuff! We need it!

[JonSetanta]

So Tome of Virtue will be the "Final Show" once again, as planned, for K's eventual release on Wizards.com? The apocalyptic religious flame wars and so on. As pagan I look forward to that.
This is truly the end... haha. Not.

But this 4th edition crap pissed me off.
Why?
Because I've been staring at WizO official denial for months.
Wish I copied every instance onto a big text file to spam them with now, but too late. Lost, somewhere on my harddrive, all those counterposts...
If I had a quarter for every "There is no and never will be any 4th Ed. D&D" post, well.. I'd have my own RPG company. Theoretically.

But after reading the most recent OnePiece comic, num. 467, the showdown between a zombie samurai and Zoro makes me long once again for an Ultimate Fighter.
You know, ranged slashes, sword stabs become explosions, superjumping, all that make-the-figurine-gamer-cry stuff.
Maybe this 4th Ed. is the key.

Oh, and I'm back from Ocean City Maryland. It rained a lot. Don't go to the ocean in late summer, peoples.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

You're generally just an angry guy, aren't you, Sig?

-Des

[Captain_Bleach]

1188097520[/unixtime]]You're generally just an angry guy, aren't you, Sig?

-Des

There are plenty of angry people in this board; Frank Trollman is angry enough about D&D that he swears in his posts almost all the time. That, or he just types swear words for the fun of it.