Why Wizards Don't Suck

[Aktariel]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.ph ... 9[br][br]I would have stuck this in threads that make us cry, but I had an actual question about wizards.

Why don't wizards suck?

No, I'm not joking. Yes, I am actually asking this because I want to know.

They have prepared casting. No matter how powerful they may be, that still sticks in my craw.

Can anyone help me overcome this?



*ducks for cover*

[Captain_Bleach]

I think it is because Wizards are not limited in spells "known" by level, as they can scribe more spells into their spellbook, as long as they find a scroll or spellbook with a spell that they don't know, compared to a Fighter, as once that Fighter gets his/her feat, there's no switching out or gaining new feats!

[Lago_AM3P]

They have prepared casting. No matter how powerful they may be, that still sticks in my craw.

Preparation casting is actually a huge advantage in terms of game design.

It gives clerics, druids, and wizards an amazingly huge amount of options while only slightly limiting their efficiently.

As people can see from the warlock and sorcerer, the ability to use an ability over and over whenever you see it is highly over-valued especially in this game. Seriously, how many rebuttals have you heard to the cleric archer of 'well, at least I don't have to worry about suddenly losing my feats!'. In the sorcerer's case, it's the ability to cast 'reliable' spells whenever he feels like it; you know, not being caught off guard for spellcasting like a wizard supposedly is. I know, it's retarded since the exact OPPOSITE happens but that's how he was balanced.

So because the people who design this game think 'permanent ability that's weak is equal to a transient ability that's strong' this is how the wizard ends up more awesome than the sorcerer.



There's a lot more going on on why wizards are so awesome but I decided just to narrow my response down to 'why is preparation spellcasting better than the other forms'. More on request.

[Aktariel]

[request]More![/request]

Details?

[Koumei]

Well, think of it this way:

Situation A. The team is told that they will have to go into Mt. Fire in the middle of Burningtown which can be found in the lands of Scorchingheat. They can expect to find everything with the [Fire] subtype.

The Wizard goes "Score!" and prepares fire-immunity/resist spells and spells that deal Cold damage. As well as the usual Planeshift, Teleport, Scry, buffs etc.

The Sorcerer goes "Fuck!" when he realises he's stuck with a bunch of Fire spells that will do precisely 2/3*0 good, and only has a very small number of other spells left, which may or may not be of any use. He's left thinking "Boy, I really wish I could swap some spells out this morning."

Situation B. Suddenly, undead ninjas!

The Wizard goes "Well, I have a few general purpose spells, but it really is a pity I wasn't expecting this. Ah, fuck it, Planeshift to timeless plane, rest, memorise undead-ninja-slaying spells, planeshift back, teleport to where the fight is, then STOP! HAMMER TIME!"

The Sorcerer says "Well, luckily I only know three spells so I made them all generic good-against-most-foes ones. Sure, I can SoD them, but I might be able to slow them down with field control, or maybe disintegrate them one by one."

If Sorcerers could do the Spirit Shaman trick of knowing all spells (even if they had to learn them Wizard style), then selecting a small list each day that they could spontaneously cast from, then Spontaneous would be as good as prepared.

[Username17]

Essentially, a spontaneous caster is like a preparation caster, except that you have to choose your prepared spells when you go up in level rather than when you get up in the morning. A preparation caster therefore can change his spell complement more often than a spontaneous caster.

---

Where it gets funky is when the spontaneous caster gets a spll list which is very long (see Beguiler). The Beguiler actually knows more spells than most Wizards have in their spellbook. The Beguiler still has to prepare his spells on level-up, but he has effectively already prepared himself a list that's longer than the Wizard will ever get.

Even then a Wizard can pull ahead by grabbing spells that are better than the ones on the Beguiler's list (planar binding for example), or by calling time in the middle of an adventure to learn a new spell that is specifically appropriate to the matter at hand.

-Username17

[tzor]

1189234218[/unixtime]]The Wizard goes "Well, I have a few general purpose spells, but it really is a pity I wasn't expecting this. Ah, fuck it, Planeshift to timeless plane, rest, memorise undead-ninja-slaying spells, planeshift back, teleport to where the fight is, then STOP! HAMMER TIME!"

Actually that's the key in a nutshell. It's the timeless plane that throws under the rug the principle limitation of the wizards to having to take time to memorize their spells. Back in 1E when you got to high levels it took a very long time to memorize from scratch your entire spell slot selection. Once you remove the problem of the need for the 8 hour rest and the memorization periods you allow the wizard to ad lib better than a sorc.

Back in 1E a big part of the game for casters was which X of the Y spells I know should I memorize / pray for today.

[Captain_Bleach]

That's why in my games, extradimensional areas all pass time normally. No spellcaster is safe from the mandatory 8 hour rest!

[Koumei]

Oh, I agree that the stupidity of that is the main problem there, but "I know all the good spells" classes are still better than "I can't wait until I level up and learn a new spell" classes, even ignoring that.

But I would not fault a person for not having a world with crazy time planes. Or who warns players from the start "The only plane that has crazy time is the Far Realm. You can't rely on it being the kind of crazy time you want, either. Also, seriously bad things will happen to you there. Have you ever breathed jellyfish instead of air? No? Well, imagine it. Now imagine them ON FIRE. If you can't handle the idea of having to do that for the 8 hours of rest and extra hour of preparation, you are not ready to go there."

[Bigode]

1189271449[/unixtime]]That's why in my games, extradimensional areas all pass time normally. No spellcaster is safe from the mandatory 8 hour rest!

Which one below is true?

A) Clerics are.
B) You houseruled them.
C) Clerics aren't spellcasters (includes "clerics aren't anything" - that is, don't exist).

[MrWaeseL]

Wizards rock because their spells are level-appropriate and are in almost all cases better than hitting things with a sword.

[Captain_Bleach]

1189278457[/unixtime]]

1189271449[/unixtime]]That's why in my games, extradimensional areas all pass time normally. No spellcaster is safe from the mandatory 8 hour rest!

Which one below is true?

A) Clerics are.
B) You houseruled them.
C) Clerics aren't spellcasters (includes "clerics aren't anything" - that is, don't exist).

Change "8 hour of time" to "pray for spells at a certain time." Time flows normally on all planes in my games in order to avoid crazy loopholes. In RAW, simply go to a fast-forward time plane for a Cleric to get the spells that you want at the time you need to pray for your spells.

[Iaimeki]

1189271449[/unixtime]]Change "8 hour of time" to "pray for spells at a certain time." Time flows normally on all planes in my games in order to avoid crazy loopholes. In RAW, simply go to a fast-forward time plane for a Cleric to get the spells that you want at the time you need to pray for your spells.

I think Bigode's referring to genesis, the cleric spell that makes a demiplane and allows you to choose its time trait.

[Jacob_Orlove]

I think he's referring to this:

A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, just as a wizard does. However, a divine spellcaster does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular part of the day to pray and receive spells.

[Bigode]

Both are right ...

Edit: but that probably would make me wrong with regards to one of them, since it's pretty sensical to suppose Bleach houseruled genesis to disallow such control.