I have access to:
Human Slingers, Lion Tribe Archers, Jaguar Tribe Slingers, Woodsman Blowpipes, Light Calvary, Archers (only from one province I might lose soon). Which are going to be best? Whichever I can get into groups of 20 or so? 25 = 250 gold, which would otherwise be 2 sacred giants. Is that going to be better? Ashdod Slingers are particulary cheap (7gp), so 20 = 140 gold, or 1 sacred giant. Is 20 slingers going to deal more damage to the Mictlan sacreds than 1 sacred giant?
Also, which of these archer type is best?
I also have gold troubles.
Dominion 3 Strategy & Questions
Moderator: Moderators
Do you know this Let's Play?
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... id=3454638
Especially TheDemons post, might give you a few pointers.
(He got jumped by three players, but intimidated one into quitting and is trashing the other two players.)
Edit: It's a game with mods, but the basic principle should be the same.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... id=3454638
Especially TheDemons post, might give you a few pointers.
(He got jumped by three players, but intimidated one into quitting and is trashing the other two players.)
Edit: It's a game with mods, but the basic principle should be the same.
Last edited by Korwin on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You've fallen into the Bless Rush trap of thinking that all problems can be solved by your sacreds.
Yes, archers are going to be better than sacred giants. The giants are going to last maybe 5 turns against other blessed units and kill maybe three units each (and won't last two turns against the cav).
Archers are going to devastate the poorly armored Mictlan troops. In fact, if you hit them hard enough they might not even meet your troops in battle.
Even if you don't, the arrows are going to fall all around your heavily armored sacreds while they are holding things in melee.
If you have a choice of archers, go for Woodsman archers (the other guys in a blowpipe Woodsman province), then wolf tribes, then anyone else (though your slingers are much nicer versions of basic slingers and nearly as good as shortbows, so do that).
As for Ermor, you need Priests. Banishment spam is going to make those Shadow Vestals and undead cav explode. An Astral Adon in a Communion can throw down a savage beating.
Since you are being gangbanged, it might be time to bring all your mages out to fight. Alteration 2 gets you Earth Meld, and that can be great for trapping troops so that arrows can take them apart.
Evocation is probably not your thing unless you already have a lot of Fire mages. Alteration is the path for you since you get Earth magic for battle like Destruction and Earth Meld, and Astral solutions like body ethereal and luck to buff your giant sacreds who stand next to their blesser.
Yes, archers are going to be better than sacred giants. The giants are going to last maybe 5 turns against other blessed units and kill maybe three units each (and won't last two turns against the cav).
Archers are going to devastate the poorly armored Mictlan troops. In fact, if you hit them hard enough they might not even meet your troops in battle.
Even if you don't, the arrows are going to fall all around your heavily armored sacreds while they are holding things in melee.
If you have a choice of archers, go for Woodsman archers (the other guys in a blowpipe Woodsman province), then wolf tribes, then anyone else (though your slingers are much nicer versions of basic slingers and nearly as good as shortbows, so do that).
As for Ermor, you need Priests. Banishment spam is going to make those Shadow Vestals and undead cav explode. An Astral Adon in a Communion can throw down a savage beating.
Since you are being gangbanged, it might be time to bring all your mages out to fight. Alteration 2 gets you Earth Meld, and that can be great for trapping troops so that arrows can take them apart.
Evocation is probably not your thing unless you already have a lot of Fire mages. Alteration is the path for you since you get Earth magic for battle like Destruction and Earth Meld, and Astral solutions like body ethereal and luck to buff your giant sacreds who stand next to their blesser.
Everyone gets less magic in LA, but your baseline troops also generally improve. For instance, MA Man's basic troops are essentially heavy infantry. In LA, they get a crossbow too on top of the heavy infantry chassis.Mister_Sinister wrote:I guess the lack of mention of anything LA means that nothing in LA is worth blessing? Also, is it just me or do LA factions seem to get uber-shitty in many cases?
Also, most factions have their stronger mages as recruit-anywhere, so even if your best mages aren't as good they are more plentiful.
First of all, bring the other countries into the fight. Contact other countries neighboring Ermor and Mictlan. Offer them the fact that these nations are focusing on you and hence will not be able to react to another threat that takes them from the rear. Emphasize that if you lose quickly, the Ermor and Mictlan will not suffer much damage while taking your lands and hence can pick on their other neighbors afterwards.Ikeren wrote:So, I'm being double teamed by Ermor (in a corner; only me, Mictlan, and R`yleh as neighbours) and Mictlan (has T`ien Chi, Bander Log, and possibly others as neighbours).
Don't ask for remote attack spells. Ask them to go to war. Remote attacks gain them nothing. Invading Ermor/Mictlan gives them provinces, gem sites, and money. The basis of any treaty is mutual gain, or preventing mutual losses.
And as K outlined, archers, archers, archers for Mictlan. Banishment, banishment, banishment for Ermor. I would even go as far as stop recruiting your sacreds in favor of more archers and priests. Your army should be tailored towards the threat you are facing.
Trying to reach Earthquake in this setup is generally a losing proposition. It will take too long, and mass-kill spells are not a guaranteed solution to victory. Fight first, give yourself breathing room, then get back to research.
Last edited by Zinegata on Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks for the advice
I am bringing out all my mages, I just replaced my sacred recruitment with ~80 slingers.
I don't have adons, so Kohen for some banishment spam.
My research priorities were kinda bad, I now realize. Next time it's Alteration for buffed sacreds faster.
I stopped going for Earthquake, but pulling my mages out means I sorta stopped going for anything. Fight first, get breathing room, hope someone takes Mictlan off my back.
Mictlans Neighbours: T`ien Chi, Arco, and Bander Log. Bander Log (Korwin) and T`ien Chi are agreeing to carve up Mictlan, but I'm worried in my position I might not even be able to stop just Ermor. Ermor's only other neighbour is R`yleh, who is friendly but busy with Ctis, one of the few vets in the game, who also got lucky with man dropping out right beside him.
Yes. Yes I have.You've fallen into the Bless Rush trap of thinking that all problems can be solved by your sacreds.
I am bringing out all my mages, I just replaced my sacred recruitment with ~80 slingers.
I don't have adons, so Kohen for some banishment spam.
My research priorities were kinda bad, I now realize. Next time it's Alteration for buffed sacreds faster.
I stopped going for Earthquake, but pulling my mages out means I sorta stopped going for anything. Fight first, get breathing room, hope someone takes Mictlan off my back.
Mictlans Neighbours: T`ien Chi, Arco, and Bander Log. Bander Log (Korwin) and T`ien Chi are agreeing to carve up Mictlan, but I'm worried in my position I might not even be able to stop just Ermor. Ermor's only other neighbour is R`yleh, who is friendly but busy with Ctis, one of the few vets in the game, who also got lucky with man dropping out right beside him.
Are you fighting them on two different fronts that are very widely seperated (distance-wise)?
If you are then consider just doing a delaying action against Ermor. Recruit priests and script them to cast Banishment, and then retreat after a couple of turns. Put up a few levels of PD in each province Ermor plans to take, and put the Priests on them.
The idea is that you'll spend a few amount of gold (the money spent on afew PD) to maximize casualties against Ermor while at the same time maintaining your core force of priests.
As your supply lines shorten (as the fighting gets closer to your capital) you should be able to maximize your anti-undead strength while Ermor's army has been bled (from your PD/Running Priest harassment) with little possibility of reinforcement (his troops are too far from home to get reinforced). At which point you can counter-attack and annihilate the undea army outright and turn the tables on him.
In short, delay and harass if you cannot hope to win. Use the time to gather sufficient strength to launch a true counter-attack.
If you are then consider just doing a delaying action against Ermor. Recruit priests and script them to cast Banishment, and then retreat after a couple of turns. Put up a few levels of PD in each province Ermor plans to take, and put the Priests on them.
The idea is that you'll spend a few amount of gold (the money spent on afew PD) to maximize casualties against Ermor while at the same time maintaining your core force of priests.
As your supply lines shorten (as the fighting gets closer to your capital) you should be able to maximize your anti-undead strength while Ermor's army has been bled (from your PD/Running Priest harassment) with little possibility of reinforcement (his troops are too far from home to get reinforced). At which point you can counter-attack and annihilate the undea army outright and turn the tables on him.
In short, delay and harass if you cannot hope to win. Use the time to gather sufficient strength to launch a true counter-attack.
Last edited by Zinegata on Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Would someone be able to write up a guide for Earth? That'll round out the whole list!
Everything I learned about DnD, I learned from Frank Trollman.
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DSM wrote:Apparently, The GM's Going To Punch You in Your Goddamned Face edition of D&D is getting more traction than I expected. Well, it beats playing 4th. Probably 5th, too.
Frank Trollman wrote:Giving someone a mouth full of cock is a standard action.
PoliteNewb wrote:If size means anything, it's what position you have to get in to give a BJ.
Earth!
Earth makes bad things into better things.
For example, it's the premier way to armor up a mage who might otherwise be walking around naked. Stoneskin, Ironskin, and Invulnerability are all ways to compensate for mages who aren't wearing pants. Summon Earthpower is free Reinvig and a point of Earth (remember, each point of Earth is a point of armor too).
Other than that, there aren't a lot of low-level apps and you have to wait for mid levels for the crazy. (Earth Meld should get a shout out because it can be devastating when used by a large number of mages, but otherwise can be ignored.)
The mid-level magic does get nice. Strip a bunch of enemy soldiers people's armor with Destruction or get them all with Ironbane, make an enemy army fatigue out with Curse of Stones, or just make everyone slightly better with Strength of Giants or Legions of Steel.
Evocations tend to be tricky. The mixed path Rust Mist and Magma Shards are fine if over-priced, but most people will use Flying Shards, Bladewind, and Earthquake. The first is like a few shortbow guys with the mage's Precision, the second is like a full unit of longbow guys with the mage's precision (for a few rounds before you fatigue out), and the last is like hitting half the battlefield with a shortbow attack and can be a great mage-killer and Communion-breaker.
Gifts from Heaven is the real winner. When it hits, it kills things super-dead, and there is nothing more satisfying than seeing something like high-armor elephants or SCs die in droves at the hands of Earth/Astral casters. The big problem is that its never going to hit what you want it to hit because the accuracy is so bad, so it's best when the enemy is fielding large amounts of valuable units AND you don't mind some of your own guys getting auto-killed.
At high level, Earth gets the unique ability to turn crap units into good units. Army of Lead or Gold grants heavy armor to your whole army, and Weapons of Sharpness makes their hits Armor-piercing. Combine these and even terrible units like Militia can be turned into a decent fighting force.
Petrify is a great SC-killer since when the MR check fails, the unit is paralyzed.
Ritual are meh. Earth attack is a premier assassin spell, but you won't be casting spells like Blight. Crumble is busted and seems to always open up a castle, and Iron Walls never seems to work.
Forge of the Ancients (forge bonus) is a goto for many people, and it's usually paired with Earth Blood Deep Well (gem gen).
Earth summons are among the best in the game. Mechanical men are the perfect anti-evocation force with their giant immunities, Marble Warriors are good for everything else with their giant Protection and lack of battle fatigue, and clockwork horrors make a fine early shock trooper.
Commander summons are decent. Gargoyles are also an SC chassis of choice for many people since they fly, are beefy, have high armor, and are Lifeless, but they need a lifedrain weapon. Trolls are usually summoned for the commander with E3, but the troops are decent enough and tend to see action quickly since they cost gold to maintain. Hidden in Sand is one of the few Fire mage summons in the game that doesn't require Fire and gets you a pack of wights to boot, so that's nice.
Golems also use some Earth, and tend to make fine teleporting raiders.
Earth items are underwhelming. Once you've made Dwarven Hammers for the Forge bonus, you'll realize that Earth makes great armor that is too heavy and you won't do that. Robes of Invulnerability aren't worth the 40 gems, but they are nice for SCs. There are some cheap AP weapons and you might make at Con2, but only a Flaming Sword at E1/F1 is worth after that. You might also make Gate Cleavers to open castles.
Earth/Astral gets you Crystal Matrixes and Slave Matrixes to get non-astral/blood guys into communions are are great for that. There is also a Crystal shield that battle casts Power of the Spheres, but it's heavy as crap so it's a toss-up to use it. The Gatestone is also E/S.
Earth has one artifact hammer that is awesome for the forge bonus, but that's your one great artifact.
Chances are good that you'll do Blood and make as many Blood Stones as possible with your spare Earth income since they are a gem gen and a booster, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Earth makes bad things into better things.
For example, it's the premier way to armor up a mage who might otherwise be walking around naked. Stoneskin, Ironskin, and Invulnerability are all ways to compensate for mages who aren't wearing pants. Summon Earthpower is free Reinvig and a point of Earth (remember, each point of Earth is a point of armor too).
Other than that, there aren't a lot of low-level apps and you have to wait for mid levels for the crazy. (Earth Meld should get a shout out because it can be devastating when used by a large number of mages, but otherwise can be ignored.)
The mid-level magic does get nice. Strip a bunch of enemy soldiers people's armor with Destruction or get them all with Ironbane, make an enemy army fatigue out with Curse of Stones, or just make everyone slightly better with Strength of Giants or Legions of Steel.
Evocations tend to be tricky. The mixed path Rust Mist and Magma Shards are fine if over-priced, but most people will use Flying Shards, Bladewind, and Earthquake. The first is like a few shortbow guys with the mage's Precision, the second is like a full unit of longbow guys with the mage's precision (for a few rounds before you fatigue out), and the last is like hitting half the battlefield with a shortbow attack and can be a great mage-killer and Communion-breaker.
Gifts from Heaven is the real winner. When it hits, it kills things super-dead, and there is nothing more satisfying than seeing something like high-armor elephants or SCs die in droves at the hands of Earth/Astral casters. The big problem is that its never going to hit what you want it to hit because the accuracy is so bad, so it's best when the enemy is fielding large amounts of valuable units AND you don't mind some of your own guys getting auto-killed.
At high level, Earth gets the unique ability to turn crap units into good units. Army of Lead or Gold grants heavy armor to your whole army, and Weapons of Sharpness makes their hits Armor-piercing. Combine these and even terrible units like Militia can be turned into a decent fighting force.
Petrify is a great SC-killer since when the MR check fails, the unit is paralyzed.
Ritual are meh. Earth attack is a premier assassin spell, but you won't be casting spells like Blight. Crumble is busted and seems to always open up a castle, and Iron Walls never seems to work.
Forge of the Ancients (forge bonus) is a goto for many people, and it's usually paired with Earth Blood Deep Well (gem gen).
Earth summons are among the best in the game. Mechanical men are the perfect anti-evocation force with their giant immunities, Marble Warriors are good for everything else with their giant Protection and lack of battle fatigue, and clockwork horrors make a fine early shock trooper.
Commander summons are decent. Gargoyles are also an SC chassis of choice for many people since they fly, are beefy, have high armor, and are Lifeless, but they need a lifedrain weapon. Trolls are usually summoned for the commander with E3, but the troops are decent enough and tend to see action quickly since they cost gold to maintain. Hidden in Sand is one of the few Fire mage summons in the game that doesn't require Fire and gets you a pack of wights to boot, so that's nice.
Golems also use some Earth, and tend to make fine teleporting raiders.
Earth items are underwhelming. Once you've made Dwarven Hammers for the Forge bonus, you'll realize that Earth makes great armor that is too heavy and you won't do that. Robes of Invulnerability aren't worth the 40 gems, but they are nice for SCs. There are some cheap AP weapons and you might make at Con2, but only a Flaming Sword at E1/F1 is worth after that. You might also make Gate Cleavers to open castles.
Earth/Astral gets you Crystal Matrixes and Slave Matrixes to get non-astral/blood guys into communions are are great for that. There is also a Crystal shield that battle casts Power of the Spheres, but it's heavy as crap so it's a toss-up to use it. The Gatestone is also E/S.
Earth has one artifact hammer that is awesome for the forge bonus, but that's your one great artifact.
Chances are good that you'll do Blood and make as many Blood Stones as possible with your spare Earth income since they are a gem gen and a booster, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Last edited by K on Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
I need to add two things:Ikeren wrote:Evocation 2's:
Fire: Flame Bolts, basically
Astral: Solar Rays and Star Fires.
That is excellent advice Zinegata. I'll try to make that work.
First of all, make sure that you have just enough PD in each "delaying" province to prevent the undead from simply swarming over them and killing the Priests. A PD of around 5-10 may be good enough. Any more and it becomes too expensive to be a good delaying strategy.
Secondly, when it's time for the "Big Battle", make sure to rescript your priests to NOT retreat anymore. I recently employed similar tactics and forgot to rescript one of my casters, and needless to say it was a little embarassing.
Finally - for the big fight - don't forget that your Priests are sacred too. They won't benefit from regeneration or the protection bonuses, but they WILL benefit from the reinvigoration bonus. Make sure somebody casts Blessing on the first turn so they are getting rid of their fatigue from casting Banishment and can essentially spam it for the whole battle.
(For the delaying combats, you probably won't need the reinvigoration. Your priests should be running by around turn 5 at the latest, by which point they shouldn't be totally fatigued yet)
Bought the game through Desura. Copied the Conquest of Elysium File to an USB-Stick.FrankTrollman wrote:The real question is whether they make it available through "not Desura". My experience with U-Play is so bad that I will not buy anything that requires a game client. There is no reason for those pieces of shit, and a company wants you to install one anyway it is because they want to jerk you around. It punishes people who purchase the game and I won't do it.
-Username17
Works. (I did'nt get to play yet. Still at work.)
(I had to retype thy CD-Key on the other computer.)
Priests should not have to worry about fatigue from holy spells. Exceptions being encumberance from terrain, heat and armour.
I would suggest using Master/Slave matrices if you can make them. Otherwise, if you have a few Astral capable priests, a communion followed by banishment spam, in order to help with MR penetration. Not on your skirmish battles, as there is a risk of getting overrun by Cavalry, but it should add some holy power to a major battle.
There is also an exploit involving the use of master/slave matrices on priests (holy levels only). Increased holy power in addition to the ability to cast multiple spells per turn.
I would suggest using Master/Slave matrices if you can make them. Otherwise, if you have a few Astral capable priests, a communion followed by banishment spam, in order to help with MR penetration. Not on your skirmish battles, as there is a risk of getting overrun by Cavalry, but it should add some holy power to a major battle.
There is also an exploit involving the use of master/slave matrices on priests (holy levels only). Increased holy power in addition to the ability to cast multiple spells per turn.
Applicability in this case aside, Banishment is another great spell for a reverse communion to cast. It's low-fatigue; most times you want to get as many spells on the ground as you can manage; your targets typically aren't high-MR.Winnah wrote:Priests should not have to worry about fatigue from holy spells. Exceptions being encumberance from terrain, heat and armour.
I would suggest using Master/Slave matrices if you can make them. Otherwise, if you have a few Astral capable priests, a communion followed by banishment spam, in order to help with MR penetration.
Have two masters boost the slaves with Summon Earthpower and Power of the Spheres (if the slaves are S1 priests; IIRC the engine always rounds up => you get +1 penetration), then hold and fire bows or retreat.
Ugh. You don't want to do that in MP. Well, I wouldn't, and I'd totally throw a ridiculous tantrum if someone used exploits in a game I'm in.Winnah wrote: There is also an exploit involving the use of master/slave matrices on priests (holy levels only). Increased holy power in addition to the ability to cast multiple spells per turn.
Last edited by tenuki on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
the toys go winding down.
- Primus
- Primus
Using communions to boost holy levels is totally legit. I have no idea what he means by ability to cast multiple spells per turn, though. If there is a way to do that without using a spell specifically intended for that it would be an exploit in my books.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
Undead are normally not high MR, but depending on Ermor's line-up, they may be boosting their undead with their priests. In this case, extra MR penetration could make a difference. Whether, you have the numbers to pull it off is another matter.
Banishments have their damage, range and AoE effected by holy levels, so boosting up to H4 will allow your priest to tear through a moderately undead army, assuming you have the time to set up a communion and otherwise boost magic paths, as well as more conventional military support.
As for exploits, they are worth noting. Allowing priests to cast 4 holy spells a turn may be a bugged side effect or a hidden feature, you never know. There is a whole mass of miscellany that could be considered an exploit by one group and a feature by another; Bogus orders, sneaking past fort lockdowns, quickened item autocast, etc. The priest multicasting thing has been around for a very long time.
If it is CBM Ermor, I would pull no punches. They still have not fixed the overpowered alterations to apostacy and anaethema (MA Ermor can communion their priests too). In a vanilla game, I would be more conservative (assuming I even had the time and gems to forge a number of matrices).
Banishments have their damage, range and AoE effected by holy levels, so boosting up to H4 will allow your priest to tear through a moderately undead army, assuming you have the time to set up a communion and otherwise boost magic paths, as well as more conventional military support.
As for exploits, they are worth noting. Allowing priests to cast 4 holy spells a turn may be a bugged side effect or a hidden feature, you never know. There is a whole mass of miscellany that could be considered an exploit by one group and a feature by another; Bogus orders, sneaking past fort lockdowns, quickened item autocast, etc. The priest multicasting thing has been around for a very long time.
If it is CBM Ermor, I would pull no punches. They still have not fixed the overpowered alterations to apostacy and anaethema (MA Ermor can communion their priests too). In a vanilla game, I would be more conservative (assuming I even had the time and gems to forge a number of matrices).
Four holy spells per turn is definitely what I would consider an exploit. I cannot imagine why it has not been patched out.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
So far as I am aware, it has been around since Dom PPP. I have not played that version, so I can't confirm that, but I know for certain it was a fairly well known trick in Dom 2.
Maybe it can't be patched out. Maybe it can and the designers decided not to do so. I don't consider it to be any worse than tweaking your commander holding a Lifelong Protection or Green Eye, so the items fire off 3 or 4 times per turn.
Maybe it can't be patched out. Maybe it can and the designers decided not to do so. I don't consider it to be any worse than tweaking your commander holding a Lifelong Protection or Green Eye, so the items fire off 3 or 4 times per turn.
And how much are "A lot"?
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.