Virtual Table Top to get excited about?

[Stubbazubba]

Roll 20 Online VTT

So, having dealt with the relative clunkiness of MapTools, these guys look like they're going to be a major step up. I sincerely hope it works like their video makes it look. I would be delighted if it does.

[shadzar]

does look that impressive, but i did have something back in the late 80's of a virtual tabletop built on a 2 computer built into a single office desk thing i built using basic that could do all that except graphics...

there isnt really a redefine of VTTs... you just need the right functions and easy of use.

all you need is a well developed shared map, an IM/PM system, VOIP/CAM, and lockouts to make sure not everoyne is trying to move things at the same time.

i did like the health bar thing and ability to change it, but would prefer it to allow a dice selection for cases of random.

click on the health bar and say roll dice [ADD] [REMOVE]. that way you can heal or take damage and have the dice actually calculate the health/HP/whatever. it doesnt need ot incorporate rules for ANY game, since all have changing health, so you need to use the right dice at all times, but auto-calculations are a MUST for some things.

[MfA]

The feature set of the mapping doesn't seem up to maptool standards (no lighting I can see). The feature set of the sound doesn't seem up to rpgsoundmixer or softrope ...

Why pay some dubious people you don't know money to reinvent the wheel? Go give the people with working products money and incentive to improve it ...

Especially since they want to create a fucking WEB BASED SERVICE AND MONETIZE THE HELL OUT OF YOU.

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

It's called Openrpg, been around for years and is truly free, allowing macros, modules, an all sorts of great stuff.

A more stable Openrpg with built on voice chat support would be worth it. But only if it came with all the features of Openrpg which I doubt this thing will for awhile

[rileydutton]

The feature set of the mapping doesn't seem up to maptool standards (no lighting I can see). The feature set of the sound doesn't seem up to rpgsoundmixer or softrope ...

Why pay some dubious people you don't know money to reinvent the wheel? Go give the people with working products money and incentive to improve it ...

Especially since they want to create a fucking WEB BASED SERVICE AND MONETIZE THE HELL OUT OF YOU.

Hey there! I'm the creator of Roll20, saw some folks dropping by from this board and thought I'd see if I could answer any questions.

You're right that MapTools has features that we don't, but honestly in this case it's by design. We are never going to incorporate advanced scripting or one-click auto-rolls. Dynamic lighting is also on the "maybe" list rather than the roadmap. Honestly, our number one goal is ease of use. I tried using MapTools in the past, and it wasn't for me. If you want those features, I think MapTools is great and I certainly think there is room for more than one great VTT in the RPG community.

But if your number one concern is getting your players in-game quickly and easily, having access to a wide array of art assets to use that are constantly updated, built-in video chat, and integrated background music system...then we're for you.

And as for monetization, the program is going to be free at launch for both GMs and players. We're just asking for some funding now to get development done and pay the server bills. We do plan on having a 3rd party marketplace where people can share free and paid content, and that's how we'll support the site after launch. But you by no means have to partake of that aspect, and none of the features we show in the video or talk about in the Kickstarter campaign have anything to do with that.

And I hope I don't seem dubious.

[hogarth]

Roll 20 Online VTT

So, having dealt with the relative clunkiness of MapTools, these guys look like they're going to be a major step up. I sincerely hope it works like their video makes it look. I would be delighted if it does.

It didn't really look any less clunky to me, except in the sense that there was less stuff. The video and music bits are kind of neat if you're into that, but I probably wouldn't use them, personally.

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

To their credit (Assuming the features hold up to scrutiny) it does look better than a similar browser based game table at http://www.infrno.net/

[Stahlseele]

Well, they are quick to react too

[MfA]

And as for monetization, the program is going to be free at launch for both GMs and players. We're just asking for some funding now to get development done and pay the server bills. We do plan on having a 3rd party marketplace where people can share free and paid content, and that's how we'll support the site after launch. But you by no means have to partake of that aspect, and none of the features we show in the video or talk about in the Kickstarter campaign have anything to do with that.

I still have to buy into a platform with a server infrastructure centralized only to more effectively monetize customers ...

I just don't like the service business model unless it's truly necessary (MMORPGs for instance). If I wanted to use your VTT simply as a virtual battlemap and my internet connection was out I'd be shit out of luck ... I don't want to be in that situation.

And I hope I don't seem dubious.

I guess I should have said unknown.

[rileydutton]

I still have to buy into a platform with a server infrastructure centralized only to more effectively monetize customers ...

That's really not why it's centralized. It's centralized because that lets me provide new features that people want in VTTs, like easy inviting of players, no installation, and video chat. Whatever revenue there is will only help development and pay the hosting bills. I have a full time job and I don't anticipate giving it up to retire off the profits from my free virtual tabletop any time soon. In fact, I'm fully expecting to be paying a fair chunk of change out of pocket over the next year to keep this up and running -- but I believe in it and I want it to succeed.

And as for requiring an Internet connection, the entire purpose of the system is to play with people remotely. It could be used as an offline digital tabletop but that's not our primary goal.

[shadzar]

pay the server bills.

while platform independent via web apps are great to prevent people form having to hack between OS to build the program. having it on YOUR server closes MANY doors. a shared lobby works for MMOs because you need to control the content, but with a VTT, having to depend on the server being up to be able to play is one of the main problem i point WotC too about their VTT.

if it runs on a web page, then it should easily be able to be downloaded and loaded on that computer to connect to directly without the use of a central lobby. Teamspeak was good when you didnt have to connect to their server but had direct IP-2-IP connection. Gamespy and these other things that require YO to use for a lobby are outmoded for freeware apps.

is the purpose to be able to find anyone to play with, or to be able to play with people you already know? if you already know the people you are playing with, you dont need a lobby or server to run it.

sure it means people have to know their IP address, but its about time if people are using computers for all sorts of things they learn to use them.

[NolanTJ]

is the purpose to be able to find anyone to play with, or to be able to play with people you already know? if you already know the people you are playing with, you dont need a lobby or server to run it.

sure it means people have to know their IP address, but its about time if people are using computers for all sorts of things they learn to use them.

I'm one of the other developers. The purpose is to play with people you already know. But getting around firewalls and all the other crap that went with using functions like Maptools is a problem that we've heard several others have. For those that want to run their own servers, they've got avenues to do so. For the rest of us lazy assholes who just want to play D&D with our buddies, we're here to help.

[shadzar]

how much fun is it to play the original Neverwinter Nights for people right now? can anyone go into the sewers? can they meet Lord Nasher?

KludgeWerkz i think is a paid for VTT, so it has server fees included in the price to keep the site up if it still is up.

OpenRPG and MapTools take donations to maintain the server, domain names and such for downloading.

what happens to people when you forget to pay the server fees or bandwidth fees using YOUR VTT? they are just not able to play correct?

this is one of the BIG reason i quit playing EQ, and ALL forms of MMOs because it relies too much on the server, and without that server you have nothing; even from a free service.

[hogarth]

I'm one of the other developers. The purpose is to play with people you already know. But getting around firewalls and all the other crap that went with using functions like Maptools is a problem that we've heard several others have.

I'll vouch that messing around with port forwarding and whatnot is kind of a hassle with Maptools.

[DragonChild]

Count me as a former maptools, and current OpenRPG user who's certainly interested in this.

[Stubbazubba]

It's called Openrpg, been around for years and is truly free, allowing macros, modules, an all sorts of great stuff.

A more stable Openrpg with built on voice chat support would be worth it. But only if it came with all the features of Openrpg which I doubt this thing will for awhile

I've had OpenRPG on my computer for awhile now, but every time I try to learn how to use it, I feel like the learning curve for someone with no technical background and little time is prohibitively steep. The only thing I ever hear about are 'nodes' and how to create them, setting up a server, and gametrees and how they're supposed to work. It doesn't feel like any other software application I use, it doesn't even feel like encounter creation; it seems like I have to learn the software's unique language and operations well before I can actually make a map, and I don't feel like investing the time it would take to get past the learning curve just for a VTT is worth it.

This one looks more user-friendly, and appears to be more straight-forward about how to do what, taking the videos at face value. It communicates to me in terms of encounter design and game mechanics, not technical terms I have to figure out from a forum.

[Fuchs]

I glanced over OpenRPG, and it felt way to complicated to bother.

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

I'm always amazed how easily people get discouraged. Openrpg starts with the Behir example sheet, from there you can just directly edit it and turn it into your own character sheet with macros. It's extremely convenient to have an organized set of macros, being able to roll all your characters attacks and damage rolls with one button click, being able to separately keep track of all skill and saving throw bonuses together and rolling instantly.

One you've gotten this you can just go to any Openrpg server and start asking around and they can send you their nodes, you can start working off of other people's better character sheets and so forth. Later on you can learn to download nodes from the Internet and use them as a dungeon master. Want an easy hobgoblin, dragon, giant to fightO? Easy, just grab a Macro online. Now you can directly have all it's attack forms and stats right in your browser, with one click

Really, just a small bit of effort nullifies both of your statements.

[DragonChild]

As someone who uses OpenRPG constantly, it's a stupid piece of shit. It constantly deletes nodes, crashes often, often needs reinstalling for no goddamn reason, and is currently developed by a crazed lunatic. Even as someone who hates voice chat on online games, I'd be interested in seeing what other people can come up with.

My super important wish for an online tabletop however is - easy to make maps on the fly. I want a whole bunch of preset terrain sets, and a "terrain" layer where I can throw them onto a grid,and then switch to a "character" layer where they aren't touched. The reason I don't use mapping software anymore is because it's too hard to get grids to match up on premade maps, and it's too hard to quickly set something up on the fly.

[TheFlatline]

It's amusing that people argue and prefer for unpleasant UI.

I applaud anyone who tries to make VTT faster and more streamlined. If someone manages to get to the point where there's, say, 70% functionality of something like Maptools or OpenRPG and yet I can easily sit down and within say 30 minutes of tinkering run an RPG session on the fly with drag & drop & shit then we're getting somewhere.

I'm not a fan of Apple and many of their design ethics, but Steve Jobs was onto something when he obsessed over UI and the user experience being king. Workflow ease is probably the biggest "feature" that's often ignored.

[hogarth]

If someone manages to get to the point where there's, say, 70% functionality of something like Maptools or OpenRPG and yet I can easily sit down and within say 30 minutes of tinkering run an RPG session on the fly with drag & drop & shit then we're getting somewhere.

Maybe I'm used to using an old version or something, but I found it pretty easy to just drag and drop some stuff into Maptools if I just wanted to use it as a map. Now there's tons of stuff that isn't easy to use, but if I don't care about something (e.g. macros) I just ignore it. YMMV, I guess.

[Surgo]

I used OpenRPG seven (!) years ago. I don't know if it's improved since then, but it was impossible to actually get anything done in it then. The interface just didn't make any sense whatsoever. A new user just had no clue how to translate "what I want to do" into "how to make the computer do this".

[shadzar]

It's amusing that people argue and prefer for unpleasant UI.

I applaud anyone who tries to make VTT faster and more streamlined. If someone manages to get to the point where there's, say, 70% functionality of something like Maptools or OpenRPG and yet I can easily sit down and within say 30 minutes of tinkering run an RPG session on the fly with drag & drop & shit then we're getting somewhere.

I'm not a fan of Apple and many of their design ethics, but Steve Jobs was onto something when he obsessed over UI and the user experience being king. Workflow ease is probably the biggest "feature" that's often ignored.

the did, its called Neverwinter Nights 1.0 with the AI turned off, and Teamspeak.1.0.

granted it could take a bit more than 30 minutes of working to get a full nights worth of gaming in due to mapping since it was 3D mapping, but you had the first person view (with cam-hack) that would let you see from your character or 3rd person view for top-down.

works for ANY edition, just dont use the built-in radial controls except to move around, and dont use the rules system. (unless you want to play a MMO version of 3.0)

@OpenRPG:

Python is about as stupid to use as Microsoft Silverlight, because its a junk little programming language.

i could never even get it to work to connect to a game to even try. another one of those right ideas, done the wrong way.

as many multiplayer board games out there, you would think someone could make it easy enough just adding the other bits to it, but yet nobody has done it. HeroQuest worked pretty good under Windows 98.

so webspace is the best place to design with flash and all that, but the GUI needs to be platform independent.

[Stahlseele]

Also makes it portable.
If it's truly plattform independent, you can use it from anywhere with phones/tablets/laptops even if you are not at home.

[nockermensch]

@OpenRPG:

Python is about as stupid to use as Microsoft Silverlight, because its a junk little programming language.

Welcome to my blacklist, Shadzar