[Dom3]Yet another EA game
Moderator: Moderators
Well that's just great.
Arcane Nexus is Dispelled by Ryleh (I'm assuming). Okay, seriously how does Dispel actually work?
Sauromanta attacks and breaks the NAP-3 for a good reason, but that reason no longer matters. :/
And my only Ally goes AI.
*sigh*
So I guess its 3v1 now against me?
Not sure how i can take on Sauromantia with my late game set back. He's got some pimped out Tartarians.
Well while I'm here I might as well talk about what happened mid game.
So basically while Lanka was tearing into Abysia. Absyia sent me like 40 astral gems and basically said "here are some astral pearls go mess up Lanka for me". So I made some gear for my eagle kings and went raiding.
But now i can't even get past Lanka's legions of undead to storm a fort. Even with Crumble I can't make a dent. It's because ghouls and Lanka's undead aren't mindless (the part where their siege/defense scores are only 10% of what it normally would be), and since they're undead they don't worry about supplies either.
Its a pretty strong defence, and pretty frustrating as well lol. Any ideas how to get past this?
My initial thought was something like purgatory/wrath of god. but I'm not sure that would do enough damage in one turn to kill them before they would just heal. I don't think throwing more troops at it would solve it either as he can just summon more while being sieged.
Arcane Nexus is Dispelled by Ryleh (I'm assuming). Okay, seriously how does Dispel actually work?
Sauromanta attacks and breaks the NAP-3 for a good reason, but that reason no longer matters. :/
And my only Ally goes AI.
*sigh*
So I guess its 3v1 now against me?
Not sure how i can take on Sauromantia with my late game set back. He's got some pimped out Tartarians.
Well while I'm here I might as well talk about what happened mid game.
So basically while Lanka was tearing into Abysia. Absyia sent me like 40 astral gems and basically said "here are some astral pearls go mess up Lanka for me". So I made some gear for my eagle kings and went raiding.
But now i can't even get past Lanka's legions of undead to storm a fort. Even with Crumble I can't make a dent. It's because ghouls and Lanka's undead aren't mindless (the part where their siege/defense scores are only 10% of what it normally would be), and since they're undead they don't worry about supplies either.
Its a pretty strong defence, and pretty frustrating as well lol. Any ideas how to get past this?
My initial thought was something like purgatory/wrath of god. but I'm not sure that would do enough damage in one turn to kill them before they would just heal. I don't think throwing more troops at it would solve it either as he can just summon more while being sieged.
Last edited by Drago0661 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- King
- Posts: 5271
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am
Woot, go R'lyeh!Drago wrote:Arcane Nexus is Dispelled by Ryleh (I'm assuming). Okay, seriously how does Dispel actually work?
Dispel is mostly based off extra gems: the more extra gems you put into the nexus, the harder it is to dispel. The more extra gems you put into the dispel, the more likely you are to succeed. Arcane nexus has a base cost of, what, 160? Dispel has a base cost of 60. So you're at a natural disadvantage in terms of putting and keeping it up, unless arcane nexus throws you enough gems to cover the gap in the time it is up (which it very well might).
Less than you think: I'm actually semi-low on nature gems, which are necessary to gift of reason good tarts. But most of the tarts I've been getting are either monstrous or feeble-minded, so gift-of-reasoning them hardly seems worth it anyway.Drago wrote: Not sure how i can take on Sauromantia with my late game set back. He's got some pimped out Tartarians.
Also, yes: this is Sauromatia publicly asking for nature gems. We'll trade death.
- Ancient History
- Serious Badass
- Posts: 12708
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:57 pm
Ah ok,
Well for educational purposes I think I'll share some numbers.
Arcane Nexus has a base cost of 150 gems. I put an extra 10 into it because that's how much astral spare I had after alchemizing most of my gems.
Dispel has a base cost of 30. It would be interesting to see how many gems Ryleh used to dispel Arcane Nexus.
In previous turns I tried dispelling Mother Oak from Lanka, I put a total of 48 astral into that dispel. Mother Oak costs a base of 50. So it would also be interesting to see how many extra gems Lanka put into that.
I'm just trying to learn more about Dispel, so I can put it to better use in future.
and Arcane Nexus only gave me like 21 gems after the turn i cast it (this is without me spending many gems at all, as I alchemized most of them), so not as many as I hoped, kinda makes me think if it is worth it in a small player game.
Well for educational purposes I think I'll share some numbers.
Arcane Nexus has a base cost of 150 gems. I put an extra 10 into it because that's how much astral spare I had after alchemizing most of my gems.
Dispel has a base cost of 30. It would be interesting to see how many gems Ryleh used to dispel Arcane Nexus.
In previous turns I tried dispelling Mother Oak from Lanka, I put a total of 48 astral into that dispel. Mother Oak costs a base of 50. So it would also be interesting to see how many extra gems Lanka put into that.
I'm just trying to learn more about Dispel, so I can put it to better use in future.
and Arcane Nexus only gave me like 21 gems after the turn i cast it (this is without me spending many gems at all, as I alchemized most of them), so not as many as I hoped, kinda makes me think if it is worth it in a small player game.
Dispels: Globals have a strength measured in # of gems. That strength is equal to the extra gems you put in (so total gems minus base cost) plus a bonus for how much the caster's path level exceeds the requirements, I have heard that paths from boosters don't count, equal to 5 times the extra paths. Dispel works the same way, except you are more likely to get the path bonus because while globals generally need 5 or more in a path, dispel takes only 3 astral to cast. Dispel is quite good at taking down minimum strength globals because of that. However, unless you seriously want a global to go down and you don't have the paths to cast it (or can't handle the diplomatic fallout) overwriting is better roughly 100% of the time.
-
- King
- Posts: 5271
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am
You're supposed to blow a lot of gems on the turn you put up the nexus and really, every turn until it's dispelled. Alchemizing spare gems into it is kind of the opposite of what you should do.Drago wrote:and Arcane Nexus only gave me like 21 gems after the turn i cast it (this is without me spending many gems at all, as I alchemized most of them), so not as many as I hoped, kinda makes me think if it is worth it in a small player game.
But yeah, let's look at some math and assume gem expenditure is at equilibrium (spent as they're acquired):
*Note, Arcane Nexus's text is wrong, I believe, and it actually gets 1/4th gems. Pretend it "converts" them to astral as they're received, halving it again.
Sauromatia: 64
Abysia: 13
Caelum: 93
R'lyeh: 38
Lanka: 31
Your best case scenario was ~60 astral pearls a turn. Some fraction of those will be astral (R'lyeh's, mostly, I think, and some of your's), so less than 60. Paid for itself in ~3 turns, paid for itself and a wish in ~5 turns, and another wish every ~2 turns after that.
Would have been better with a bigger map, obviously.
Well what i mean by alchemized, was that I needed it up sooner rather than later due to your tartartians, so I alchemized gems into astral to get 160 astral total. I guess I could have waited? I was just scared, I didn't want to give you too much of a lead in progressing your late game.
Yea I was aware it was only a 1/4 of non astral gems spent.
Yea I was aware it was only a 1/4 of non astral gems spent.
-
- King
- Posts: 5271
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am
Well, yeah, but my point is: every gem you alchemized was one less gem you could have spent in a ritual or forging an item. Every gem you spent on a ritual or item would have come back to you as 1/4th an astral pearl. And you represent about 1/3rd of the gem production on the map, so 1/3rd of the maximum potential of arcane nexus would be coming from you and your own gems. Alchemizing gems to cast arcane nexus just means you're that much less likely to pay it off.Drago wrote:Well what i mean by alchemized, was that I needed it up sooner rather than later due to your tartartians, so I alchemized gems into astral to get 160 astral total. I guess I could have waited? I was just scared, I didn't want to give you too much of a lead in progressing your late game.
If you hadn't scared the world with potential wish-spam, I still had an NAP-3 to go through. Plenty of time to save up for a big nexus and a big splerge turn.
Though, I wonder how many seraphs you have... was the nexus the first priority, or did you get a few up for backup that you're just hiding? How quickly can you get them out now? I suppose I'll just have to find out.
-
- King
- Posts: 5271
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am
Ok basically I want to open up a discussion about SC vs SC warfare.
So Sauromantia has a pimp Tartarian:
Details: fear 5, immunity to lightning, fire, cold, poison, reinvig 3, regen 17hp.
Now i'm being open about this so I (and others) can learn from this.
My initial thoughts are trying to fatique it out with axes of hate (quickened and probably only with 1 axe and a shield). But that would need a good chasis to stand a chance. Or will Eagle Kings be enough (and what equipment would they need to stand a chance if that's the case)? any other ideas?
2nd are thug warfare. Banelords with frostbrand, vine shield and ring of tamed lightning and ring of regeneration. I have a few ideas, but they aren't exactly gem efficient. Thoughts?
I'm bascially just after advice on SC warfare, since in this game, i'm the guy who will will be responding to threats in this game of counters.
So Sauromantia has a pimp Tartarian:
Now i'm being open about this so I (and others) can learn from this.
My initial thoughts are trying to fatique it out with axes of hate (quickened and probably only with 1 axe and a shield). But that would need a good chasis to stand a chance. Or will Eagle Kings be enough (and what equipment would they need to stand a chance if that's the case)? any other ideas?
2nd are thug warfare. Banelords with frostbrand, vine shield and ring of tamed lightning and ring of regeneration. I have a few ideas, but they aren't exactly gem efficient. Thoughts?
I'm bascially just after advice on SC warfare, since in this game, i'm the guy who will will be responding to threats in this game of counters.
The counter against an SC is not necessarily another SC. In this case I'm honestly tempted to use a bunch of scouts holding Flambleus (Holy damage x2 against undead by casting Holy Pyre) and wearing boots of quickness + an accuracy booster, supported by chaff to keep the SC busy.Drago0661 wrote:Ok basically I want to open up a discussion about SC vs SC warfare.
So Sauromantia has a pimp Tartarian:
Details: fear 5, immunity to lightning, fire, cold, poison, reinvig 3, regen 17hp.
Now i'm being open about this so I (and others) can learn from this.
My initial thoughts are trying to fatique it out with axes of hate (quickened and probably only with 1 axe and a shield). But that would need a good chasis to stand a chance. Or will Eagle Kings be enough (and what equipment would they need to stand a chance if that's the case)? any other ideas?
2nd are thug warfare. Banelords with frostbrand, vine shield and ring of tamed lightning and ring of regeneration. I have a few ideas, but they aren't exactly gem efficient. Thoughts?
I'm bascially just after advice on SC warfare, since in this game, i'm the guy who will will be responding to threats in this game of counters.
For the chaff, you might ironically want to use either undead (which aren't really affected by frost brand but will suffer losses to your Holy Pyres) spammed by Death casters, or Mechanical men - both of which shrug at the Fear Aura.
Last edited by Zinegata on Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
-
- King
- Posts: 5271
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am
@Orion, that's the flesh eater. The axe of hate causes fatigue. Putting fatigue directly onto an undead should work as well as anything else.
@Drago I'm really not actually sure what can and cannot kill my SC's and thugs; this is as much an experiment for me as it is you. Thankfully, I can mass produce them easily enough. But yes, I imagine she will die to dedicated counters quite easily. I only really have her because I went to artifacts for the +3D sceptre to make tarts and I snatched as many artis as I could while I was there. So she is pimped out. My main strategy is mass-producing lightly-equipped ones, which is annoying because the more I get the more disobedience I have to deal with. Friggin' tartarians.
In all honesty, I should really support her with some back-up. And I probably will. And the same is true of all my thugs and SC's. It's really just not smart to send them all out alone.
@Drago I'm really not actually sure what can and cannot kill my SC's and thugs; this is as much an experiment for me as it is you. Thankfully, I can mass produce them easily enough. But yes, I imagine she will die to dedicated counters quite easily. I only really have her because I went to artifacts for the +3D sceptre to make tarts and I snatched as many artis as I could while I was there. So she is pimped out. My main strategy is mass-producing lightly-equipped ones, which is annoying because the more I get the more disobedience I have to deal with. Friggin' tartarians.
In all honesty, I should really support her with some back-up. And I probably will. And the same is true of all my thugs and SC's. It's really just not smart to send them all out alone.
As this stage in the game, you should have all kinds of crazy crap to toss around because you've had a giant territory and no enemies.
Cloud Trapeze in a Seraph to cast Petrify (it kills on a failed save and paralyzes on a successful save). Add in a few SC seraphs to knock his HPs down and deal with any PD he added.
Cloud Trapeze in a Seraph to cast Petrify (it kills on a failed save and paralyzes on a successful save). Add in a few SC seraphs to knock his HPs down and deal with any PD he added.
-
- King
- Posts: 5271
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am
Two Banelord with high def, quickness, and two duskdaggers would work. For anti-SC work you want two weapons not a weapon and a shield. Axe of Hate has on hit fatigue so bringing one or two along is a pretty decent idea. Mind hunt with penetration boosters could work given the somewhat low MR. You would need to fully pimp out the penetration though.
@ K: Seraphs can't cast petrify, it needs earth and seraphs have fire, air, and astral.
@ K: Seraphs can't cast petrify, it needs earth and seraphs have fire, air, and astral.
I meant Eagle Kings. They get Earth, can be handed enough items to boost to the Petrify level, and he's got a ton of them.DSMatticus wrote:I haven't actually seen any Seraphs yet. How about you? I'm sure he has or will have some soon, even if I haven't seen them. But a tartarian costs 10 death gems, and a seraph costs 100 pearls.
-
- King
- Posts: 5271
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am
Oh, shit, sorry. Didn't realize these guys only had E1 >_>.DSMatticus wrote:? Petrify is earth five. Eagle kings have E1. That's doable, but it's not cheaply massable and it's a heavy investment.
It's doable if you have Bloodstones. Earth boots + Blood Stone = E3. Then pump with summon Earthpower to E4. Then spend a gem to make it to E5.
I'm way too used to powers with at least E2 or 3 >_>.
-
- King
- Posts: 5271
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am
Personally, this is why I prefer the Flambleu + Boots of Quickening method. At about 25 gems cost (less with hammers) you can get 4 of these guys spamming 8 Holy Pyres a turn, which is theoretically enough to kill a Tart in 2 rounds of combat. Plus, those 4 guys can still smash undead army groups.K wrote:If you want to kill something made out of 100 gems of equipment, you should expect to spend at least as much as a general rule.DSMatticus wrote:1 in 40 have E2, and there's also rings of wizardry and the con6 4-element boosters that require A4E4 or F4W4, but those are all super expensive.