Does bounded damage and HP with unbounded accuracy fit D&D ?

[ishy]

Problem with that system is if two hits can kill, the great wyrm can seriously die to 2 level 1 goblin archers who just both got a natural 20.

Now sure, the chance of that happening is low, unless the wyrm has to fight enough goblins it is bound to happen once.

Any game where a great wyrm fears fighting 2 goblins because it might mean the end of her feels like total crap for a d&d game, imo.

[Stubbazubba]

Then take out the nat 20 rule.

[Omegonthesane]

See, with this kind of system, a dude can't hit the ground at terminal velocity, and then stand up and walk away. It's just not as cool.

So in a fantasy game, I don't think this is a good thing. But somebody like Captain America actually seems to run on high to-hit/defense and low HP.

They could with enough Fast Healing, theoretically. Provided terminal velocity landings weren't an instakill to near-max-HP critters.

[...You Lost Me]

well I figured if terminal velocity is an instakill to one, it's an instakill to all.

[Archmage]

I did something to this effect in a system I've been trying to write to a playable stage for literally years, but I keep dropping it for various reasons. It's very heavily based on CAN and TNE discussions and SAME and a lot of other random banter that has been going on around here, to the point where I was going to go out of my way to credit Frank and TGD for SAME (it'd be creative commons anyway, no intent to try to market it).

• Everyone has 10 hit boxes. Period. Death occurs at 20 wounds.
• You get a to-hit bonus equal to your level. You get an evade bonus equal to your level.
• Uses a 3d6 system. If 3d6 + level equals or beats 8 + defender's evade (basically level), you hit. If you hit exactly, you inflict one wound. For every point by which the attacker exceeds the defender's evade, an additional wound is inflicted.
• The attacker's damage is a fixed value. The defender rolls soak. If the soak roll equals the damage value, wounds inflicted are reduced by one, plus one more for every point by which soak exceeds the damage value.
• Mob attacks (a half-dozen guards firing an arrow volley), assuming everyone could reach the target, got a +1 for every 2 participants past the first as an extension of the game's aid another rules, but made only a single attack (exactly like Frank suggested in an earlier post in this thread).
• Creatures intended to have nutso defenses either had big soak values, regenerated wound boxes, or both. (The biggest evade boost you could get was +1 from a shield or parrying weapon in your off-hand).
• Higher-level characters could still wipe the floor with groups of low level characters on average, because they possessed AoE attacks and ways to defend against crowds (activated defensive abilities that cost resources rather than passive huge AC). But a crowd could still threaten a higher-level character as long as their soak value wasn't obscene (i.e., nigh-unbeatable DR).

Does it "feel like D&D?" Fuck if I know, I'm not sure I care. I know it was a step toward modeling the fantasy world I wanted to play with--D&D is cool, but it has a lot of baggage and its ruleset generates settings that are totally not what most people expect.

[Omegonthesane]

well I figured if terminal velocity is an instakill to one, it's an instakill to all.

An insta-drop-you-to-bleeding is functionally an instakill to people without quick healing or very well prepared friends, while still being able to implement the exact scenario you proposed.

I did something to this effect in a system I've been trying to write to a playable stage for literally years, but I keep dropping it for various reasons. It's very heavily based on CAN and TNE discussions and SAME and a lot of other random banter that has been going on around here, to the point where I was going to go out of my way to credit Frank and TGD for SAME (it'd be creative commons anyway, no intent to try to market it).

• Everyone has 10 hit boxes. Period. Death occurs at 20 wounds.
• You get a to-hit bonus equal to your level. You get an evade bonus equal to your level.
• Uses a 3d6 system. If 3d6 + level equals or beats 8 + defender's evade (basically level), you hit. If you hit exactly, you inflict one wound. For every point by which the attacker exceeds the defender's evade, an additional wound is inflicted.
• The attacker's damage is a fixed value. The defender rolls soak. If the soak roll equals the damage value, wounds inflicted are reduced by one, plus one more for every point by which soak exceeds the damage value.
• Mob attacks (a half-dozen guards firing an arrow volley), assuming everyone could reach the target, got a +1 for every 2 participants past the first as an extension of the game's aid another rules, but made only a single attack (exactly like Frank suggested in an earlier post in this thread).
• Creatures intended to have nutso defenses either had big soak values, regenerated wound boxes, or both. (The biggest evade boost you could get was +1 from a shield or parrying weapon in your off-hand).
• Higher-level characters could still wipe the floor with groups of low level characters on average, because they possessed AoE attacks and ways to defend against crowds (activated defensive abilities that cost resources rather than passive huge AC). But a crowd could still threaten a higher-level character as long as their soak value wasn't obscene (i.e., nigh-unbeatable DR).

Does it "feel like D&D?" Fuck if I know, I'm not sure I care. I know it was a step toward modeling the fantasy world I wanted to play with--D&D is cool, but it has a lot of baggage and its ruleset generates settings that are totally not what most people expect.

So finish this thing.

More seriously, premises 3 and 4 aren't really compatible - if damage is the result of subtracting defence from To Hit, it isn't a fixed value to then be drained further by a Soak roll.

[Stubbazubba]

More seriously, premises 3 and 4 aren't really compatible - if damage is the result of subtracting defence from To Hit,

I don't think it is. You deal damage if to hit equals or exceeds defence, but soak is based on something else, likely a weapon's 'damage' value; net damage after soak is 'wounds.'

Or your weapon can have a base damage, and additional points of damage from the attack roll are added to that, and that's the soak TN. Alternatively, the soak TN is still the base weapon damage, and each point of soak above that reduces it more; extra power from a good attack roll just makes it harder to get rid of it.

[Archmage]

"Damage" is actually a soak TN. It is in fact fixed. Damage as far as final number of wounds inflicted is a function of the to-hit roll and therefore variable. I'm pretty sure the SAME system used the...same system So I can't claim credit for inventing it. It's pretty elegant and produced results I liked when I ran the numbers.

As far as finishing it? Probably not happening. Too much work for too little reward. Writing a D&D replacement for my gaming group would require at least a PHB's worth of available options to pore over. The more efficient route, writing options specifically for PCs "as they come up" and then integrating them into the system at large will deprive the CO hounds at my table of their chance to "solve" the game. It'll end up boring for me and unsatisfying for everyone. =P

[Wrathzog]

In a tightly bounded system as presented in my first post the great wyrm kills the peasant in 2-3 hits, but on average that takes it only 2-3 attacks; the great wyrm kills the hero in 2-3 hits which on average take 4-6 attacks; and the great wyrm kills the near-epic dragonslayer in 2-3 hits, which on average take 40-60 rounds.

I typed this paragraph almost word for word on Friday and then deleted it. I'm glad to see someone else thinking my thoughts.
(but seriously, get the fuck out of my head)

Also, one thing people seem to assume is that Humans and Dragons are going to have the same number of hit points, which is not necessarily true. Humans (and other medium-sized creatures) are most likely going to have similar health pools, but Dragons, being much larger, would have a much larger health pool.
So, when you have the Great Wyrm, which has health proportional to its Size and damage mitigation/avoidance proportional to its Challenge Rating, you have something that Bob and his five peasant brothers can't hope to overcome, regardless of Luck or even Preparation.

I know I'm alone in this ... but I think AoE damage spells should do D6 per CL damage with save for half, if that means hitpoint/damage inflation so be it.

No, that is D&D. D&D has Fireball and that's just how fireball works.
Hurm... so maybe we can keep Fireball working the same but maybe change how people increase their caster level? Give people more ways to deal with the damage?