Simplest abuse of the druid yet.

[Username17]

A swarm of dimminutive creatures is a medium animal.

Swarm is a subtype, creatures with the subtype swarm which are composed of simminutive creatures are immune to weapon damage.

At fifth level, a Druid can transform into a pile of rats or snakes and be immune to all weapon damage.

-Username17

[Lago_AM3P]

That's frickin' awesome.

I frickin' hate frickin' wildshape. Why won't they fix it?! There's only so many houserules I can make before--OMG SO BAD TEH WILDSHAPE EATING AWAY AT MY BOOK LIK ACID

[da_chicken]

According to the stat blocks, all the swarms in the 3.5 MM are Diminutive Animals except for Rat Swarms, which are Tiny Animals. You get Tiny at 11th. Tiny swarms take half weapon damage. Only Diminutive and Fine swarms are immune to weapon damage.

A DM can also say that since the weapon resistance/immunity is a SQ (and one that's listed), that you don't get it, but we generally don't play like that.

[Username17]

But the Monster Entries in the Fiend Folio carry over - the list of 3.5 updates for that book has been published, and the Viper Swarm is still a:

Medium Animal (swarm of dimminutive creatures)

with 5 hit dice.

So you can totally transform into one.

-Username17

[The_Hanged_Man]

Well, at least you can make the DM pull out his or her hair arguing over whether your wildshaping into several diminuative creatures or one medium creature. That'll give you time to figure out what you want to do.

[User3]

Now I wonder what happens when you get hit by a Gust of Wind spell while in Swarm form ...

[fbmf]

1083088970[/unixtime]]Well, at least you can make the DM pull out his or her hair arguing over whether your wildshaping into several diminuative creatures or one medium creature. That'll give you time to figure out what you want to do.

I've used ruleslawyering to exactly this effect before.

Game On,
fbmf

[The_Hanged_Man]

1083086545[/unixtime]]But the Monster Entries in the Fiend Folio carry over - the list of 3.5 updates for that book has been published, and the Viper Swarm is still a:

Medium Animal (swarm of dimminutive creatures)

with 5 hit dice.

So you can totally transform into one.

-Username17

I hadn't noticed your post vefore. What is the significance of this? You can still only wildshape into one creature. A swarm may be listed as a medium animal, but the best the Druid could due is wildshape into one viper. PHB ist he primary source.

[Username17]

I hadn't noticed your post vefore. What is the significance of this? You can still only wildshape into one creature.

So?

For game purposes, a swarm is defined as a single creature

For the purposes of Wildshape, or any other spell effect or supernatural ability, a swarm is a single creature. So you could turn into one.

-Username17

[The_Hanged_Man]

It is also "defined" as follows:

A swarm of Tiny creatures consists of 300 nonflying creatures or 1,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Diminutive creatures consists of 1,500 nonflying creatures or 5,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Fine creatures consists of 10,000 creatures, whether they are flying or not.

So. Which definition determines whether a Druid can wildshape into one? The one that says it is "defined" as a single creature, or the one that says it "consists" of hundreds?

Let me put it another way. What different does it make that one rule actually contains the word "defined?" Is the word "defined" defined anywhere? Does the term "defined" have any impact in how you determine what the rule is? Is there some meta-rule that says rules containing the word "defined" kick ass over everything else in the book? I'll check the glossary when I get home.

[Username17]

The thing where you can target swarms with spells which target a single creature - the thing where for the purposes of spell effects a swarm is just one creature.

Because they can be dominated as a single creature, you can also polymorph into one.

-Username17

[Sma]

While I agree with the rest of your reasoning this is patently untrue.

"A swarm is immune to any spell that targets a specific number of creatures (including single target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind affecting spells (...) if the swarm has an intelligence score and a hive mind."
per the Glossary MM 3.5

Sma

[da_chicken]

1083086545[/unixtime]]But the Monster Entries in the Fiend Folio carry over - the list of 3.5 updates for that book has been published, and the Viper Swarm is still a:

Medium Animal (swarm of dimminutive creatures)

Yes, and the 3.5 Accessory Update Booklet changes the size of all swarms. Vipers go to Diminutive Animals.

[Username17]

Good point. I apologize.

This technique is only legal with polymorph, polymorph any object, or shapechange, not with Wildshape or Alter Self in the 3.5 rules.

So you have to wait until 7th level to get weapon immunity and then can't cast spells - which makes it nowhere near as good.

Again, I'm sorry.

-Username17

[virgil]

Question on that part, when you use polymorph, it uses the alter self wording, doesn't it? And in the latter spell, it states that you retain your type and subtype, and the swarm subtype is where you get all of your nifty immunity to weapon damage.

[JonSetanta]

Well there is a spell in 3.0 called Swarmform, does the same thing as Frank's statement in OP.
I figure, make Wildshape a spell(s) and add Swarmform to their class list. If a DM doesn't want Druids to become a swarm, remove the spell from their list... and then wait for CodZilla to arrive instead.
Personally, I'd rather a Druid run around as a handful of rats, than a 100 foot tall beast with 10+ buffs and Natural Spell feat.

[ckafrica]

How is the PB2 shapeshifting as a balance compared to wild shape? I'm not good a the number crunching. it looks weak in comparison but is it a good balance or crap? and if crap any quick fix for it?

[JonSetanta]

It looks weak but the possibility for combos seems greater since the Druid retains their normal form.. mostly..

[Voss]

1195893161[/unixtime]]How is the PB2 shapeshifting as a balance compared to wild shape? I'm not good a the number crunching. it looks weak in comparison but is it a good balance or crap? and if crap any quick fix for it?

Its not quite as insane since you can't transform into the more amazingly awesome animals running around, plus you lose your pocket fighter. And most of the bonuses are specified as enhancements, so you can't stack them up with certain spells and items (bull's strength and etc).

However, you get the equivalent of greater magic fang as a set bonus, and you're still quite capable of performing a barbarian's melee damage & tanking roll, and switching back to a full caster at will, for cracktastic spell sling ability. In some ways, its a bonus, seems you don't have to spend resources on greater magic fang or strength enhancement spells/items. Maybe a dex buff, and barkskin if it stacks (IRC, it does, because that one isn't an enhancement bonus).

Example:
Round 1: Wall of Thorn off the mooks, transform into flying form.
Round 2: Flying charge at the BBEG, swift action to transform into whichever tank form you have access to at that level. Crunch.

Just watch out for touch attacks. Another caster with Enervation and some good metamagic feats is going to kick your ass all over the place.

[Yahzi]

As it should be.

In "The Once and Future King," Merlin defeats Nimue by turning into a swarm of bacteria, and killing her elephant form.

So the rules are perfectly fine. They simulate classical magic. It's your game that is broken, because you a) allowed more than 3 wizards in your entire multi-verse, and b) let a player be one of them.