Pathfinder

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:34 am

The nosferatu's highest stat boost is Wis, at +6. Aasimar, Dwarf, Changeling, Duergar, and probably a number of others would boost that higher still, making a cleric or druid a good choice.

hmm... Nosferatu Druid. Could be cool.

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:57 am

Skullcrusher the Wonder Horse (and his owner)
A legit PFS character.

Take an Aasimar Oracle, with the Scion of Humanity racialt alt, the now-legal Huntmaster feat, the Nature mystery for the animal companion, the favored class option to advance your companion, and whatever.

You now have an animal companion, using (1½*your level)+1.

Your horse is not that impressive at level 1, but at least it's 19 beefy hit points.

At level 2, however, it's already a monster, with 30 Hp, a power attack routine of +6, 1d4+7/ +6, 1d6+7/+6, 1d6+7 (DPR +6/30.5), and +6 natural armor, so easily AC 21. For your other feat, you can take Narrow Frame and not take any AC or Attack penalties in a 5' wide corridor.

At level 3, you take the Celestial Servant feat. Your horse gains 7 hp and a feat, and, oh, 3*elemental resistance 10, smite evil +5 damage 1 target/day, and DR 5/Evil. Most level-appropriate encounters that aren't tailored can be soloed by your horse. Also, you can totally take Master Craftsman or Craft Ranger Trap (which Rangers can't get until level 5), just to troll any martials that haven't ragequit.

"I have class features more powerful than you", indeed. Also a full caster on the side. The worst full caster class in the game, but still, full caster. [/u]

Archmage Joda · Post by **Archmage Joda** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:05 pm

Assuming that asking for build help for pathfinder is kosher on this thread, I would like some assistance on a character project of mine: a spellcaster that essentially has the best of both wizard and cleric magic. I was thinking that it would use the cleric class as a start, for the superior spells known mechanic and overall better chassis, and working from there. So far, I've got being a cleric without worshipping a specific god, and taking Void as one of my domains. What should the other domain be, and how would I get more wizard mojo onto my spell list aside from veiled illusionist?

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:47 pm

Eldritch Heritage feats with Arcane Bloodline might give you a few wizard spells.
Darkness is a solid domain if I recall correctly. Fate can also be useful.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:50 pm

Is there anything specific you want to do with the character? Because right now your concept is rather broad. Do you just want to throw out spells that fucking kill people? Minions? etc.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:52 pm

For a cleric/wizard, I'd probably just go with a plain ordinary witch. But it sounds like you have some kind of specific idea going on that I'm not clear on.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:16 pm

The Magaambyan Arcanist from paths of prestige gets to add a limited number of Druid spells to their spell list. Also Samsarans have an alternate racial ability that lets them add a limited number of spells from someone else's list to their own.

It also depends if you need Cleric spells in general or if you are looking for something specific like the ability to heal or Cleric divinations.

Archmage Joda · Post by **Archmage Joda** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:20 pm

Well, my idea was to make a cleric who was almost indistinguishable from a wizard, so I suppose that means going for "spells that fucking kill people". Also, getting as many wizard staples as possible onto my cleric list. Things like teleport, or telekinesis, or even just some more wizardly conjurations.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:26 pm

Right now I don't think there is a way for a Cleric to get all the Wizard spells, so you're going to be forced to cherry-pick. The good news is that the Travel domain still rocks in Pathfinder, so that's most of your mobility spells accounted for. I think there is a class option that lets you prepare domain more than once per day.

One option you can work on is using magic items to augment your spell list. Truth be told this works best for spontaneous arcane casters though. You could make magic staffs. I don't think you need to know the spell to add it to the staff, it is an expensive option though.

It is possible that you can use paragon surge with eldritch heritage to get wizard spells onto your list but they last only for a few minutes.

Thinking on it I think the best way to do it is to be an Oracle, you can spam paragon surge with eldritch heritage to cast any Wizard spell when you want to. You can also make use of Mneumonic Robes and Scrolls of Spell Knowledge (I'm a little foggy on the names) to augment your clerical casting. I think you can also be a Samsaran with racial heritage half-elf and still add all those Wizard spells to your list. Not a lot but maybe enough to get you up to level 8 and paragon surge shenanigans.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:56 am

PunPun called, he wants Paragon Surge moved to his thread.

I think all of us totally forgot the best pro tip evar to be a cleric with wizard spells. Can you guess it? Do you have any sharp objects you want to throw at me? Well, no matter, I'll do it anyway: Mystic Theurge! This class rocks soooooooo much. Sooooooo..... muuuuuuuuch.

It had to be done. I regret nothing.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:50 am

You monster!

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:02 am

DO actually make a Mystic Theurge. Crack open Inner Sea Magic, join a Guild. You should be able to get 5 fame quickly, that´s +1 effective Wizard level right there, completely fucking free. I have no idea how long 35 fame actually takes, but getting there will putt you at full wizard casting and level-2 Cleric casting.

Archmage Joda · Post by **Archmage Joda** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:39 am

So, I've been tinkering with making a necromancer cleric for an upcoming pathfinder game, and just running into a few hiccups. I have Undead and Void domain and am a godless cleric. My main hangup comes from not knowing how to distribute for needing both Wisdom and Charisma as well as the usual dose of Dexterity and Constitution, on a 20-pt buy starting at level 1. Any other bits of advice (like, does the Undead Lord archetype actually outweight the benefits of a second domain, or am I right in thinking that the Void domain is a better choice) are also welcome, since I've never actually played a cleric before in pathfinder or 3.5.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:49 am

One kind of cynical thing I've done in the past, is in low optimization groups I will make dex or con a dump stat. Low optimization groups tend to have softball DMs so you can get away with it. I recommend a low con over a low dex for a cleric, fort is already strong, you should have enough HP, so the benefit to initiative from dex is good.

If you aren't planning to cast many save or fails you can also short change wisdom. I think the minimum anyone should have is about 14-15. You can put the rest into cha. The loss of extra spell slots will hurt but since you're focusing on enduring effects (probably) you get good mileage per spell slot already.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:13 am

As a bonus, Pathfinder undead use their CHA for HP and Fort saves. If you can give yourself a template, dumping CON should only be a temporary problem.

Archmage Joda · Post by **Archmage Joda** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:46 am

Are there any undead templates a character can acquire earlier than the level 11 required for lich? And how does gaining a template even work in pathfinder, since they dumped the Level Adjustment thing?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:58 am

Archmage Joda wrote:And how does gaining a template even work in pathfinder, since they dumped the Level Adjustment thing?

-Username17

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:20 am

^That. Playing monsters in general in Pathfinder is the straight up business. By the rules playing a monster works like you took X levels in that monster where X is equal to its CR, then X is reduced by 1 for every 3 class levels you take after that.

So since monsters are made of arbitrarium anyways and many monsters have abilities that straight up say "You count as a 6th level Sorceror" or whatever it is very common that by choosing to play as a given monster at a given level you are choosing to just get many free levels on top of your levels. Yo Dawg.

Some of the all time big hitters are the following
Aranea: Gives you 5d10 hp, a +5 BAB, and 5 levels of Sorceror for 2 levels
Lamia Matriarch: Gives you 12d10 hp, a +12 BAB, and 6 levels of Sorceror as well as a bunch of sweet fuckin TWF feats for between 4 and 6 levels so you are BORN to Gish.
Lammasu: Gives you 9d10 hp, a +9 BAB, and 7 levels of Oracle with the added bonus that you don't need to use divine focus material components which I'm SURE can let you break the economy somehow. And that is for between 4 and 6 levels.

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:49 am

So, I'm writing a backup character. I'm claiming a Synthesist Summoner based roughly around Iron Man.

Advice?

Also, I started a mini shitstorm when I mentioned that some assholes on the internet told me that Synthesisit summoners were superior to regular summoners and one of the other players was NOT having that. And went into details about how a regular summoner can get multiple arms on his eidolon and crap while a synthesist can't.

Question is, why can't I? I'm reading Summoner, Eidolon, and Synthesist on the PFSRD, and the only limits I see is that I can't have an eidolon smaller than I am. It says nothing about not having one bigger, or not having one a different shape than I am.

Also, the argument was having two sets of actions was better than anything a synthesist could do, and I told him that having one set of awesome actions was better than having two sets of lesser ones. Did not go over well...

So I guess the question is Synthesist: The best Pathfinder character, or merely very good?

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:00 am

Someone is butthurt. Those kind of arguments usually end in "wizards are fine, you just have to take away their spellbook for a couple of sessions. Also never allow them to rest. Ever. Fixed." territory.

Yes, having more actions is great, it plain wins the game... unless you can't do shit with them. Summoner spell list isn't exactly filled with awesome.

I'd say plain summoner CAN be better, but the moment you start cat's graceing instead of your semimurder spells, you just suck.

Also I'm not sure why you couldn' be a multiarmed giant synthesist. Sounds like a case of NO YOU CAN'T HAVE MY TOYS! MOOOOOOOOM!

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:18 am

My reading of the ability is you just can't synthesize something smaller than yourself, but you can go bigger if you like.

I always have a backup character in case of death. Anything reasonably sane that has all its penalties physical stats and all its bonuses in mental?

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:54 am

Sounds sane to me. The frail (maybe even old? I mean, who cares if your phys stats are around 4, right?) will make any warrior types feel very small in their pants.

Holy crap, I think I will use that concept myself.

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:00 pm

Ted the Flayer wrote:So, I'm writing a backup character. I'm claiming a Synthesist Summoner based roughly around Iron Man.

Advice?

Also, I started a mini shitstorm when I mentioned that some assholes on the internet told me that Synthesisit summoners were superior to regular summoners and one of the other players was NOT having that. And went into details about how a regular summoner can get multiple arms on his eidolon and crap while a synthesist can't.

Question is, why can't I? I'm reading Summoner, Eidolon, and Synthesist on the PFSRD, and the only limits I see is that I can't have an eidolon smaller than I am. It says nothing about not having one bigger, or not having one a different shape than I am.

Also, the argument was having two sets of actions was better than anything a synthesist could do, and I told him that having one set of awesome actions was better than having two sets of lesser ones. Did not go over well...

So I guess the question is Synthesist: The best Pathfinder character, or merely very good?

Synthesist isn't the best... but it's close to being the D&D 3.x druid, complete with hulking out and natural spelling shit. Also, it ignores your shitty physicals, so go you.

Master Summoners might be better at higher levels because they can have more effective mages on the field (Master Summoner can have multiple iterations of their SM SLA active at one time) but Synthesists are pretty nasty before level 10 and even after that. Also, Master Summoners tend to take a really long time with their turns, which might piss the GM off.

Something you might like as a Synthesist is to take an Eldritch Heritage feat; this is very doable as a half-elf, who gets the free Skill Focus for Eldritch Heritage and a very powerful summoner favored class option (+1/5 or 1/4 eidolon point per level!). There's a couple of Bloodlines which grant an autoscaling +2-6 inherent bonus to Str or Con, which should stack with your synthesized eidolon's natural physical stats. Or something.

GâtFromKI · Post by **GâtFromKI** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:52 pm

Ted the Flayer wrote:So I guess the question is Synthesist: The best Pathfinder character, or merely very good?

It's probably the worse Summoner archetype. A regular summoner has two characters with something like 90% of the power of a non-full-caster, while the synthesist has only 1 character with 120% of the power of a non-full caster. The former is obviously better than the latter.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:48 pm

Ted the Flayer wrote:So I guess the question is Synthesist: The best Pathfinder character, or merely very good?

It's hands down the best melee class. If you really want an argument tell a PF fan this and substantiate it, they will go ape shit.

As for what is the best class, I think the 'best' class varies over different level ranges. As mentioned Synthesists are really strong for the first 7-10 levels but in the double digits they are not as effective as pure caster.