Is Axe Cop a Low Level Concept?

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

hyzmarca
Prince
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 pm

Is Axe Cop a Low Level Concept?

Post by hyzmarca »

At his core, Axe Cop is just a cop with a Perfect Axe. Yet he is supposed to hold his own with on a team with Vampire Wizard Ninjas from the Moon. In fact, he's the team leader. Heck, Uni-man's horn gives him Wish at will. That's pretty powerful, especially when he wishes for more horns and can use them all as a single action.

Sure, Axe cop has a database of every badguy, including their location (which is pretty useful) and a monster truck and his flying fire-breathing T-Rex with miniguns for arms probably counts as a special mount, but it still isn't as powerful as a few nineth level spells.
Saxony
Master
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:56 pm

Post by Saxony »

You have got to fully explain just what "axe cop" is before you ask questions like that.

Unless you just want a retread of the general discussion about mundane action heros.
User avatar
Rawbeard
Knight-Baron
Posts: 670
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 9:45 am

Post by Rawbeard »

He's like Batman in the Justice League. If you think about it, it makes no sense. Axe Cop has the excuse that he never tried in the first place, so... yeah. what ever. But otherwise low level with gear up the arse.
To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
hyzmarca
Prince
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 pm

Post by hyzmarca »

Saxony wrote:You have got to fully explain just what "axe cop" is before you ask questions like that.

Unless you just want a retread of the general discussion about mundane action heros.
Google is a thing that exists.

http://axecop.com/

Axe Cop. He's a cop with an axe. He decapitates bad guys all day and all night. He once turned time traveling Abraham Lincoln: Explosion God into a woman so that he could marry her.
Last edited by hyzmarca on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever
Prince
Posts: 2549
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:05 am

Post by Whatever »

Axe Cop is not a level-based game, and its action-resolution system is not intended to simulate anything close to reality. So Axe Cop works fine as a character, even (or especially) as the protagonist.
Saxony
Master
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:56 pm

Post by Saxony »

Axe Cop. He's a cop with an axe.
If that's all it is, then, yes. Low level in DnD 3.5 terms.

But that should have been obvious to you.

Is there some reason you think Axe Cop might not be low level?
Last edited by Saxony on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Wrathzog
Knight-Baron
Posts: 605
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:57 am

Post by Wrathzog »

http://axecop.com/index.php/acguest/read/AC_MC2/
http://drmcninja.com/archives/comic/19p4/

Axe Cop is literally written by a child (and is pretty awesome).
As such, Axe Cop is the Highest concept.
Last edited by Wrathzog on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PSY DUCK?
Artless
Journeyman
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Artless »

Axe cop's capabilities are moved up and down depending on the current situation. If it makes dramatic sense for him to struggle in a given scenario, he will, but in total his ability to handle a situation and achieve the most positive possible result is never in question.

His primary challenge in adventures is not if he will solve a problem, but when and how. As such, I'm not entirely sure his brand of free-associative power scaling is payable at all, let alone being low level.

Would be fine for Munchausen, though, I'd wager.
Last edited by Artless on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mistborn
Duke
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:55 pm
Location: Elendel, Scadrial

Post by Mistborn »

Artless wrote:Would be fine for Munchausen, though, I'd wager.
Nice to see at least someone learned something for all of the previous threads like this.

So given that hyzmarca can't actually be suggesting Axe Cop is a valid concept in a game other than Munchausen (In fact I refuse to believe otherwise for reasons of mental health and public safety) It's clear that this thread is in fact a cunning ruse and I shall congratulate hyzmarca for being a cunning ruseman. I almost had a rage and started telling people how frozen fast they are.

In deference to the people who don't follow the periodic "high level mundane" flame wars I'll explain what's up.

During these threads sometimes people say that is fine to have a "mundane" character at high levels because, "who needs planeshift just let him cross planar boundaries by literally punching through them", or "who cares that he can't fly he can just ascend to the cloud castle by pulling himself up by his own shoelaces". The response from people who still posses logic and dignity was that that isn't a high level mundane character leveling up his concept, it was swapping out his concept for "is Baron Munchausen". You can't really have Baron Munchausen (or Axe Cop) outside Munchausen in any other game because they live in worlds where casualty and cause and effect do not apply thus you can "level from Conan to Axe Cop" any more than you can "level from Conan to Bugs Bunny".

Any questions?
Last edited by Mistborn on Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
darkmaster
Knight-Baron
Posts: 913
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:24 am

Post by darkmaster »

Um, yes, what exactly is wrong with having a fighter level up to epic level and become something akin to golden age superman who actually jumped so far it was indistinguishable from flying.

Seriously, that's why superman can fly now, he used to actually leap tall buildings and, in fact, entire downtown areas in a single bound.
Kaelik wrote:
darkmaster wrote:Tgdmb.moe, like the gaming den, but we all yell at eachother about wich lucky star character is the cutest.
Fuck you Haruhi is clearly the best moe anime, and we will argue about how Haruhi and Nagato are OP and um... that girl with blond hair? is for shitters.

If you like Lucky Star then I will explain in great detail why Lucky Star is the a shitty shitty anime for shitty shitty people, and how the characters have no interesting abilities at all, and everything is poorly designed especially the skill challenges.
User avatar
Mistborn
Duke
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:55 pm
Location: Elendel, Scadrial

Post by Mistborn »

darkmaster wrote:Um, yes, what exactly is wrong with having a fighter level up to epic level and become something akin to golden age superman who actually jumped so far it was indistinguishable from flying.
Fighters are ordinary humans who do not have superpowers, that's what's wrong with it.
User avatar
Wrathzog
Knight-Baron
Posts: 605
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:57 am

Post by Wrathzog »

because it is completely incomprehensible that a man can do awesome things through clean living, eating right, and training right. In a world with Angels, Devils, Dinosaurs, Vampires, etc.
PSY DUCK?
User avatar
Mistborn
Duke
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:55 pm
Location: Elendel, Scadrial

Post by Mistborn »

Wrathzog wrote:because it is completely incomprehensible that a man can do awesome things through clean living, eating right, and training right. In a world with Angels, Devils, Dinosaurs, Vampires, etc.
Yes, at least while still being "mundane".
Last edited by Mistborn on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Foxwarrior
Duke
Posts: 1639
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:54 am
Location: RPG City, USA

Post by Foxwarrior »

Wrathzog wrote:because it is completely incomprehensible that a man can do awesome things through clean living, eating right, and training right. In a world with Angels, Devils, Dinosaurs, Vampires, etc.
The real world contains beings that can accelerate to faster than the speed of sound and land safely again, living off only toxic, volatile fluids, but even so I doubt that you can jump over your house.
darkmaster
Knight-Baron
Posts: 913
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:24 am

Post by darkmaster »

I'm not saying they should be mundane, I'm saying the exact opposite. They should totally be fantastical. Just not really magic. I'd totally be fine with a guy actually punching reality so hard that it breaks a hole in the universe, also a thing a version of superman did, or being able to run so fast that they can essentially go anywhere in the world instantly.

These are mechanically indistinguishable from things magicians can do, but the flavor is honestly more important to me in this case.

It makes me think of M&M, yeah more super hero stuff but bear with me here. In M&M there aren't classes as I'm sure most people on the den know. The game is all about packets of abilities that can be given any descriptors you want a rank 10 blast could be shooting lightning from your ass, or it could be throwing a knife so hard it breaks the sound barrier, or punching and making a pressure blast with the wind coming off your hand. The point is you're hitting with approximately the same force as a tank gun but while any of them could be magic, or psychic, or whatever only one really has to be. The other two you could just be really strong or good at hitting things whatever.
User avatar
Maxus
Overlord
Posts: 7645
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Maxus »

@Mistborn Well, not necessarily.

You could always go the Dragon Ball route, where there's no cap on what the body is capable of.

There's nothing intrinsically special about Krillin. Or Videl. Or any of the aliens in the series--they all do the same stuff, past a certain point.

Well, generally. Namekians regenerate.

So you could have an RPG where the fighters actually do get superpowers. Super-strength, super-speed, super-toughness. And this is just a thing that happens to people who spend their whole lives using their body as hard as they can.

As an 'in b4 2 anime lolol weeaboo', I present the Breche de Roland, the Three Great Strokes, Hercules...well, okay, Hercules is a demigod.

But "really big numbers" superpowers are in the source material. It's a failure of imagination to not include them.
Last edited by Maxus on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
Artless
Journeyman
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Artless »

For the love of fucking god do not do this again. There was a point this insipid, horseshit ”debate” over a non-issue needed to stop, and we are well past it.
Last edited by Artless on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Wrathzog
Knight-Baron
Posts: 605
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:57 am

Post by Wrathzog »

-e-
Fuck it, I've had this dumb conversation before and Fuck it.

Also, the thread's broke.
Last edited by Wrathzog on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
PSY DUCK?
User avatar
Mistborn
Duke
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:55 pm
Location: Elendel, Scadrial

Post by Mistborn »

Maxus wrote:You could always go the Dragon Ball route, where there's no cap on what the body is capable of.

There's nothing intrinsically special about Krillin. Or Videl. Or any of the aliens in the series--they all do the same stuff, past a certain point.
Wrong Dragon Ball has "magic", now how you access magic in Dragon Ball is by jogging, lifting weights, and learning martial arts but it's still "magic". Dragon Ball "magic" is eastern style "ki"/"enlightenment" which has been described as letting you shoot lasers since forever. This is incredibly obvious to anyone with a brain.
Artless wrote:For the love of fucking god do not do this again. There was a point this insipid, horseshit ”debate” over a non-issue needed to stop, and we are well past it.
Look closely if you want a picture of the future, imagine the same stupid arguments being raised and refuted-forever.
User avatar
Foxwarrior
Duke
Posts: 1639
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:54 am
Location: RPG City, USA

Post by Foxwarrior »

That is the most (and only) excellent use of broken quote tags I've ever seen, Whatever.

Good job.
darkmaster
Knight-Baron
Posts: 913
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:24 am

Post by darkmaster »

Yeah, what's up with the quote tags on this forum, I've never seen that anywhere else. How does that happen?
Kaelik wrote:
darkmaster wrote:Tgdmb.moe, like the gaming den, but we all yell at eachother about wich lucky star character is the cutest.
Fuck you Haruhi is clearly the best moe anime, and we will argue about how Haruhi and Nagato are OP and um... that girl with blond hair? is for shitters.

If you like Lucky Star then I will explain in great detail why Lucky Star is the a shitty shitty anime for shitty shitty people, and how the characters have no interesting abilities at all, and everything is poorly designed especially the skill challenges.
User avatar
Josh_Kablack
King
Posts: 5318
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Online. duh

Post by Josh_Kablack »

From what I've read of Axe-Cop, I'm not even sure he counts as a "concept", and that rather makes discussions of "low-level" or not moot.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

Axe Cop works in the Munchhausen game. Also in Toon. Or any other game where "mundanity" isn't an actual thing and "causality" is totally fucking optional. If there is any expectation that a character's available actions follow logically from their abilities in any way, then he'd be fucked. Uniman can fucking do anything, because he can just wish stuff up. But as long as they are playing in a nonsense universe written by a small child, that doesn't make him better than the other characters because everyone can "do anything" because nothing makes any sense.

-Username17
User avatar
hogarth
Prince
Posts: 4582
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 1:00 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by hogarth »

Whatever wrote:Axe Cop is not a level-based game, and its action-resolution system is not intended to simulate anything close to reality.
Exactly. Axe Cop is exactly Magical Tea Party, and MTP doesn't have levels that mean anything.
User avatar
Whipstitch
Prince
Posts: 3660
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:23 pm

Post by Whipstitch »

I think a better question would be "What level is Dr. McNinja?"
bears fall, everyone dies
Post Reply