all of which i think are fugly as hell. and red seems to be the new SR5 colour scheme . .
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Regarding the payment... They suggest quite specific numbers this time. Of course, these are so low that you cannot even pay for basic cyberware at rating 1 after the prime run on the Wildcats they give as an example. This is also because they increased the prices of decades old ware like muscle replacement (5 times more expensive). Besides, the payments are fucked up anyways, because the Johnson is mainly interested in how many guys you've fought in combat. So Rambo will make the big cash here, while sneaky runners like faces and B&E specialists earn less.
But anyways, my favourite part are skillwires. You know, the mass produced things that every wageslave gets implanted? Well, they cost 20 times more per rating as in SR4. And remember, every rating point is worth less than in SR4, because the skills are more spread out this time.
Why 20 times? Skillwires were 2000/rating in SR4. This time, they are 20000/rating, BUT you also need a skilljack to use them and that one is 20000/rating too. So, the prices increased 20 times, while the effectiveness per rating point was halved.
I sure hope you've all invested in skillwires. If you did, it's payday!
So in the end, payments are pretty bad in relation to gear costs.
Oh wait, the cost for foci was decreased. Seems like not everyone gets the bad end of the stick... again.
Last edited by Dragon Instincts on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hmm, skillwires . . wait . . essence went up with level usually . .
so, with skill-lvel 12, how much essence does that thing now cost?
it's been pointed out to me, that skillwires only go to level 6 now . .
Last edited by Stahlseele on Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Stahlseele wrote:hmm, skillwires . . wait . . essence went up with level usually . .
so, with skill-lvel 12, how much essence does that thing now cost?
it's been pointed out to me, that skillwires only go to level 6 now . .
They go up to lvl 6 and cost 0.1 per rating. But you need a skilljack too and that's also 0.1 per rating.
So the complete package is 0.2/rating. Just like in SR4.
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Besides, the payments are fucked up anyways, because the Johnson is mainly interested in how many guys you've fought in combat. So Rambo will make the big cash here, while sneaky runners like faces and B&E specialists earn less.
Please someone elaborate on this.
To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
You Denners are proud of your Mathmatical Prowress and understanding of convoluted messes of rules.
So here:
Sure. Summary from Page 375, Run Rewards:
To calculate, start with base cost of 3k (May be negotiated up and down in increments of 100). Then begin to calculate modifiers to that total.
First, take the highest opposing dice pool of the opposition and divide by 4. (This is the total of the highest active skill + attribute of any NPC that will directly opposing the players.)
Then add +1 for any of the following: Runners outnumbered 3 to 1, or Runners outnumbered 2:1 by Professional Rating 4 BOCs. Runners faced a pack of at least six critters. Runers encountered at least three different spirits (beside watchers). Runners accomplished task with impressive speed/subtlety. Risk of public exposure. Or Job brings runners into notably dangerous element of sixth world, such as, but not limited to, Red Samurai, Mutsuhama Zero Zone, etc.
Once all multipliers are calculated, multiply it by the base run payout, then apply a final modifier:
Increase: 0% for standard run
Increase: 10-20% for run that makes you a cold hearted bastard
Decrease: 10 - 20% for a run that gives you warm fuzzies, and saves fluffy animals.
The final amount is the payout per player.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
So, which editions of Shadowrun are worth buying if I see them on a shelf?
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
Technically, 4th edition i guess . .
If your german is up to snuff, the german books especially.
To me? 3rd Edition, but as soon as somebody mentiones variable TN's Frank flies off his handle into tirades why they are dumb.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Fuchs wrote:So... the Johnsons pay more for the same job if more runners take part.
Also, the Johnson pays more money if you fall in the dog kennel than if you sensibly avoid it.
Normally, I'm of the opinion that a poor rule beats having no rule at all because at least you have consistency. But in this case they seem to have actually made a rule that is literally worse than just telling game masters to just pull payment numbers out of their ass.
I'm normally okay for bigger paydays for bigger PC groups, because you just scale up the number of challenges until it's appropriate to the group.
But getting paid more for killing everything in sight is... not normal, unless you're hunting ghouls.
As much as it pains me, I'm passing on SR5, and probably on SR in general until someone else picks up the license. I have no faith in the product to improve. In addition to the general lack of proofing and editing, the design decisions make no sense.
i am hoping the germans will . . intercept . . some of the complete dumb shit coming out of CGL right now . .
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
To calculate, start with base cost of 3k (May be negotiated up and down in increments of 100). Then begin to calculate modifiers to that total.
First, take the highest opposing dice pool of the opposition and divide by 4. (This is the total of the highest active skill + attribute of any NPC that will directly opposing the players.)
Then add +1 for any of the following: Runners outnumbered 3 to 1, or Runners outnumbered 2:1 by Professional Rating 4 BOCs. Runners faced a pack of at least six critters. Runers encountered at least three different spirits (beside watchers). Runners accomplished task with impressive speed/subtlety. Risk of public exposure. Or Job brings runners into notably dangerous element of sixth world, such as, but not limited to, Red Samurai, Mutsuhama Zero Zone, etc.
Once all multipliers are calculated, multiply it by the base run payout, then apply a final modifier:
Increase: 0% for standard run
Increase: 10-20% for run that makes you a cold hearted bastard
Decrease: 10 - 20% for a run that gives you warm fuzzies, and saves fluffy animals.
I'm beginning to doubt that the SR5 developers regularly play the game. They seem fine with increasing the size of SR4's already large dicepools, which to me seems to bog down gameplay.
For instance they increased the weapon damage codes by ~1.5 and did the same to armour. Armour encumbrance only comes from accessories now so everyone can be rocking full body armour and helmet without issue. So basically every established runner will be rolling 20+ dice to soak. In SR4 the average soak pool seems closer to 9-12 so they've literally doubled how long it will take to resolve attacks. Since they're limiting attacks to one per pass they may be effectively making combat less deadly.
Making combat less deadly would be fine, if that was an actual fucking stated design goal instead of its opposite. Which takes me back to my first point, if they where actually playing their game they'd notice it takes more passes to drop someone not less.
Last edited by Juton on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oh thank God, finally a thread about how Fighters in D&D suck. This was a long time coming. - Schwarzkopf
Wanna know a fun fact about ranged combat? If someone's shooting at you and you tie on the defense test, if the modified DV of the attack exceeds the cover's armour, then the shot takes only -1 DV and you get to soak the rest. If you're /not/ under cover, it's considered a grazing hit where only touch effects are applied, like poisons and such.
So I'm assuming runners are expected to stand out in the open, Wild West gunslinger style now.
Then, once you have absorbed the lesson, that your so-called "friends" are nothing but meat sacks flopping around in the fashion of an outgassing corpse, pile all of your dice and pencils and graph-paper in the corner and SET THEM ON FIRE. Weep meaningless tears.
It would be interesting to know what kind of thought-like process results in rules like that. "rules having stupid implications" is pretty much a staple of CGL by now, but still this is beyond trainwreck.
To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
Hmm, somebody on the official german board claims to have done some maths and the minimum karma for a human is around 450 whereas the maximum is around 1100 equivalent using the priorities system.
he did not elaborate any further yet, so i have no idea how he got to these numbers.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Ah, appearantly:
Mensch: Rasse A, Skills B, Magie C, Res D und Attribute E
Human Race A, Skills B, Magic C, Ressources D, Attributes E comes out at roundabout 440 to 460 karma, depending on how you manage.
Human Skills A, Attributes B, Race C, Resources D und Magic E comes out to 1124 Karma, if you are good at optimizing this stuff.
Now this might just be me, but to me that seems like a HUGE difference in power in human characters alone . .
one smartly optimized character is worth about 3 badly made ones
Last edited by Stahlseele on Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
