weapon choice and fighting styles in D&D

[MGuy]

I'm not so sure that I'm trying to scratch a "realism" itch so much that I'm trying to scratch a "thematic" itch. Mechanically there are no differences between shooting fire vs shooting ice vs shooting necrotic beams unless I build that into the system. Mechanically nothing is lost by allowing mages to be better off shooting rainbow beams if they wanna win battles and letting fireballs be a laughably ineffective alternative choice. However the first one is unsatisfying to the point of being obscene and the second one is counter-intuitive and "lame". I WANT my duelist type fighters to want to wield rapiers, scimitars, daggers, etc, I want my barbarians to want wield giant axes, hammers, swords without forcing them to HAVE to use those in order to use their abilities at all.

Sure both are going to be fighting giants at some point but they will be fighting them (hopefully) in different ways. The guy using the rapier is going to have abilities and skills that maximize speed and parrying, feinting and exploiting weaknesses while the guy using the battle axe is more likely just to go toe to considerably larger toe against that giant and from there their "mojo arbitrarium" kicks in to make that work at all. The real problem for me would be rationalizing all the work when spell slinging, breath weapons, mind fuckery, and petrification gazes are the norm.

I assume that giving out slight bonuses to weapons will push things in the direction and if they don't it is not a 'huge' loss, as it is just an itch I'm wanting to scratch. What I'm not sure of is how to make it work with armor. Right now I don't care as much about it because I only really think of high armored characters and no/low armored characters and the in between isn't as distinctive for me. Honestly outside of having heavy armor just shave off a good percentage of the damage then scaling the bonuses and penalties down from there I've nothing that I can think of to add to armor. Omegonthesane is probably right in thinking that people will just want protection for protection's sake and hell there might be some reasons that people either pull out of their own ass or just emerges from actual game play that I haven't thought of. Of course the previous comment about what happens when physical attacking is no longer the deal is still an issue.

[OgreBattle]

I dislike categorizing armor by its 'style' alone, like what 4e unfortunately did, where breastplates stopped existing and all scale armor is neither light nor heavy.

I just like the designation light/medium/heavy. You can wear a light breastplate, you can have heavy rhino hide leathers, and so on.

Game mechanics wise, you have dodging and you have blocking, with the light guys better at dodging and the heavy guys able to block stuff like arrows just by standing there, and the medium guys do both pretty alright.

Thematically, assassins are in light armor, mongols are in medium, and knights are in heavy.

[RadiantPhoenix]

My extra-large weapon table whipped off the top of my head

“Name”	Size	Type	Style	Damage	Special
Knife	Light	Slashing	Offensive	d4	+Crit
Claws	Light	Slashing	Defensive	d4	Grapple damage
Stiletto	Light	Piercing	Offensive	d4	Armor-piercing
Fork	Light	Piercing	Defensive	d4	+Disarm
Sap	Light	Bludgeoning	Offensive	d6	Nonlethal option
Gauntlet	Light	Bludgeoning	Defensive	d4	+AC
Axe	1H	Slashing	Offensive	d8	+Crit
Sword	1H	Slashing	Defensive	d8	+AC
Spear	1H	Piercing	Offensive	d8	Reach
Rapier	1H	Piercing	Defensive	d8	+Disarm
Mace	1H	Bludgeoning	Offensive	d8	Armor-piercing
Whip	1H	Bludgeoning	Defensive	d8	+Trip
Greataxe	2H	Slashing	Offensive	2d6	+Crit +Cleave
Greatsword	2H	Slashing	Defensive	2d6	+AC, +Sunder
Scythe	2H	Piercing	Offensive	2d6	++crit
Pike	2H	Piercing	Defensive	2d6	+reach, +barricade
Maul	2H	Bludgeoning	Offensive	2d6	+Crit, Armor-piercing
Tower Shield	2H	Bludgeoning	Defensive	d6	+4 AC, +barricade, Cover
Blade-boomerang	Ranged	Slashing	Short range	d8	Returning, +Cleave
Bow	Ranged	Piercing	Long range	d8	+Aim
Sling	Ranged	Bludgeoning	Medium rnage	d8	Armor-piercing, cheap

Explanations:
+Crit: better critical hits (more?)
Grapple damage: Each round, you get a free attack with this weapon against anyone who's grappling you
Armor-piercing: This weapon gets an increased bonus to hit against armored targets
+Disarm: A noticeable bonus (+2? +4? +6?) to disarming
Nonlethal Option: You can deal nonlethal damage with this weapon if you want to
+AC: +1 to AC
Reach: This weapon has extra reach, whatever that means
+Trip: A noticeable bonus (+2? +4? +6?) to tripping
+Cleave: You get an extra cleave with this weapon (i.e., once per round, wehn you render an enemy disabled, unconscious, or dead, or whatever with this weapon, you get a free extra attack)
+Sunder: This weapon is better at sundering and more resistant to being sundered
++Crit: Like +Crit but twice
+Barricade: this weapon is is good at stopping people from moving through your threatened space
+4 AC: Exactly what it says
Cover: You can use this to intercede with attacks
Returning: The boomerang always comes back
+Aim: You can spend time aiming a bow for a better shot. If you can already do that, it's more productive
Cheap: You can find this weapon wherever, and renew your ammo really easily

[Username17]

I agree in principle that the choice that players make during build phases and for mission load outs could be anything from attuning power crystals to praying to specific gods. However, I think it is also important to point out that the thing in Angel where he goes to big weapons case and selects something for the mission is actually very cool, and considerably more cool than the thing in ChronoCross where you arbitrarily pack a bunch of cards into your color slots, or the thing in Final Fantasy VII where you move materia around.

One of my primary complaints with Wealth By Level in general is that it prevents warriors from being able to do weapon selection as a proxy for "daily preparation". Because it's potentially much cooler and more intuitive than the comparable Wizardish example of consulting a book and preparing spells.

-Username17

[Lago PARANOIA]

One of my primary complaints with Wealth By Level in general is that it prevents warriors from being able to do weapon selection as a proxy for "daily preparation". Because it's potentially much cooler and more intuitive than the comparable Wizardish example of consulting a book and preparing spells.

The only way I can think around this is to package extra weapons with the selected one for free, with no possibility of refunding. Probably something like Magic Item Resonance in which the extra weapons come for free when the primary item is created. The current possessor of the weapon can destroy and recreate the items that came packaged with it at any time by forcing the magical item to reabsorb and re-release the residual energy. Or something.

If you really want to go for the Matrix Lobby Equipping Montage in which you couldn't just carry a golf bag full of ALL of your weapons, you'd need another, separate mechanic. If you're fine with the golf bags, just not mid-combat switching, you'd need to have some kind of chakra attuning mechanic. If you're not fine with golf bags at all, you'd need some kind of mechanic that encourages people to keep their shit a sufficient distance away from them unless they're actively using it -- with a backdoor that lets people use new magical items for a finite period of time as soon as they pick it up with no penalties.

[K]

I agree in principle that the choice that players make during build phases and for mission load outs could be anything from attuning power crystals to praying to specific gods. However, I think it is also important to point out that the thing in Angel where he goes to big weapons case and selects something for the mission is actually very cool, and considerably more cool than the thing in ChronoCross where you arbitrarily pack a bunch of cards into your color slots, or the thing in Final Fantasy VII where you move materia around.

One of my primary complaints with Wealth By Level in general is that it prevents warriors from being able to do weapon selection as a proxy for "daily preparation". Because it's potentially much cooler and more intuitive than the comparable Wizardish example of consulting a book and preparing spells.

-Username17

The thing about Angel is that those swords always have a backstory, leading me to believe that they are magic weapons (with the exception of Gunn's car rims ax that may or may not be magic... I suspect it was made from some kind of demon car).

So the key word is "magic" and not "weapon." The Vetic Demon-slayer Knife can just have some demon-slaying power that's entirely separate from the knife-ness.

That's why everything in the case looks old.... because it is. Ancient steel was shit with few exceptions, so magic is the only reason that you'd use old weapons.

[Wulf]

Magic swords are fine .I think it would be cool for the fighter to go to his "batcave" and select anti-demon sword for his weapon and a magical holy mace as a side-weapon cause those demons are known to summon scores of skeleton minions.

And I think it is fine to drop magic weapons of different types for the players, as long its around the same "power level" as what they already have. Problem is, players sell most surplus magic items and buy magic items that actually want/need, like more rings, belts and necklaces to boost their stats.

[Username17]

I would actually be fine if warriors collected magic items to "prepare" each day in precisely the way that wizards collect spells. I think you could do a "magic item market" system that really worked if your general assumption was that players would have way more magic items than they could actually use at any one time.

-Username17

[MGuy]

My extra-large weapon table whipped off the top of my head

“Name”	Size	Type	Style	Damage	Special
Knife	Light	Slashing	Offensive	d4	+Crit
Claws	Light	Slashing	Defensive	d4	Grapple damage
Stiletto	Light	Piercing	Offensive	d4	Armor-piercing
Fork	Light	Piercing	Defensive	d4	+Disarm
Sap	Light	Bludgeoning	Offensive	d6	Nonlethal option
Gauntlet	Light	Bludgeoning	Defensive	d4	+AC
Axe	1H	Slashing	Offensive	d8	+Crit
Sword	1H	Slashing	Defensive	d8	+AC
Spear	1H	Piercing	Offensive	d8	Reach
Rapier	1H	Piercing	Defensive	d8	+Disarm
Mace	1H	Bludgeoning	Offensive	d8	Armor-piercing
Whip	1H	Bludgeoning	Defensive	d8	+Trip
Greataxe	2H	Slashing	Offensive	2d6	+Crit +Cleave
Greatsword	2H	Slashing	Defensive	2d6	+AC, +Sunder
Scythe	2H	Piercing	Offensive	2d6	++crit
Pike	2H	Piercing	Defensive	2d6	+reach, +barricade
Maul	2H	Bludgeoning	Offensive	2d6	+Crit, Armor-piercing
Tower Shield	2H	Bludgeoning	Defensive	d6	+4 AC, +barricade, Cover
Blade-boomerang	Ranged	Slashing	Short range	d8	Returning, +Cleave
Bow	Ranged	Piercing	Long range	d8	+Aim
Sling	Ranged	Bludgeoning	Medium rnage	d8	Armor-piercing, cheap

Explanations:
+Crit: better critical hits (more?)
Grapple damage: Each round, you get a free attack with this weapon against anyone who's grappling you
Armor-piercing: This weapon gets an increased bonus to hit against armored targets
+Disarm: A noticeable bonus (+2? +4? +6?) to disarming
Nonlethal Option: You can deal nonlethal damage with this weapon if you want to
+AC: +1 to AC
Reach: This weapon has extra reach, whatever that means
+Trip: A noticeable bonus (+2? +4? +6?) to tripping
+Cleave: You get an extra cleave with this weapon (i.e., once per round, wehn you render an enemy disabled, unconscious, or dead, or whatever with this weapon, you get a free extra attack)
+Sunder: This weapon is better at sundering and more resistant to being sundered
++Crit: Like +Crit but twice
+Barricade: this weapon is is good at stopping people from moving through your threatened space
+4 AC: Exactly what it says
Cover: You can use this to intercede with attacks
Returning: The boomerang always comes back
+Aim: You can spend time aiming a bow for a better shot. If you can already do that, it's more productive
Cheap: You can find this weapon wherever, and renew your ammo really easily

Just a quick question. What do the style "offense/defense" tags mean?

I'm not actually concerned about magic weapons because there aren't really many problems with magic weapons that I can think of and all of the problems I can think of revolve around either RNG fuckery or WBL. Magic weapons in my game don't give +1s and are not necessary at all for being a functional character and WBL straight up doesn't exist in the game I am working on. I don't have a major problem with golfbag-o-weapons though I do have a 'chakra binding' system in place that limits the number of magic items, Natural Abilities, and buffs a character can benefit from at one time. I also have no problem with Magic Marts though I don't intend to promote much beyond domestic magic trade goods in mine.

What I'm worried about is keeping things thematic and distinct. To that end whether or not carrying a fire sword is effectively different from carrying a lightning sword would still depend on the mechanics in the game. So that's the real issue but I would assume that, for magic items, the issue would be resolved at the same time one would resolve the difference between shooting red (fire), blue (ice), and black (necro) beams. I just so happen to think that there should be distinguishing (if minor) differences between the weapons themselves.

In the last few days I've cobbled together a few ideas for weapons (though they are notes in dead tree format until this weekend) but my ideas for armor are still rather limited. My usual group unanimously insist that there be medium armor (for reasons varying from tradition, realism, and just plain having more options) but other than just having a sliding scale of dodge vs damage soaking I've got nothin'.

[RadiantPhoenix]

Just a quick question. What do the style "offense/defense" tags mean?

It means that I view the weapon's bonus as more defensive than offensive -- in other words, is this something to let you kill faster, or something to keep you from dying? It itself doesn't do anything in-game.

The range on the ranged weapons is a general idea of how far you can use it at, and probably actually means something.